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Star Citizen v EVE

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Space Juden
Supermassive Potato Pancake
#141 - 2013-07-16 08:47:31 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I'm sure CCP will maybe possibly give some thought to how to compete with Star Citizen when SC is more than vaporware that sells $1200 ships to players.



Wow, the CSM sort of sounds scared.

I haven't pledged to SC yet, though I will eventually. How could you call it vaporware at this stage? Do you know what that term implies? Probably not. $1200 donations look bad to you, but what take from that is people have an incredible amount of passion for it.

Also, how could people say SC doesn't compete with EVE? Are you from CCP? They probably don't think PS4, BF4, CODwhatever, competes with DUST. Their opinion is pretty much invalid at this point.
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-07-16 08:48:57 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
I might be mistaken, but there isn't even a video of the gameplay of the game, just trailers and models. I am not saying that game is going to fail, but we really still didn't see anything. And remember what makes EVE the game it is and that we love, is not the graphics or the in game physics or mechanics, it is the community, the atmosphere this game inspires, the sandbox aspect (which is really difficult to achieve), and the depth and width of conflict in EVE. It is what EVE is about, and not EVE itself that makes it such a great game (I hope that made sense). These things cannot be achieved by a better engine or better graphics. What we have in EVE is unique, and really to say that you are going to have something like it based on buzz words and trailers (not even that good if you ask me) is hogwash at best.

Red flags from SC: (this doesn't mean it is destined for failure, but as points to say that it has high probability of doing so)

1- No backing from a major publisher.

2- Free to play, how is it going to make money, if it's not pay to win? Cosmetic items don't cut it enough.

3- Entitlement from the start, "capital ships that are integral" that are forever insured. Don't give me that **** about how you can lose your cargo.

4- Caters to everyone, how is that even possible for any game?? In EVE I read and heard quotes from developers that if the game is too harsh for you, then you should leave. They don't hold your hand and theme park it for you.

5- No actual gameplay yet???

6- Very general formula and say what this game would do, but not how to actually do it. I can say I will create the best game in the world but that is very much easier said than done.

7- We are going to create mods where players can create ships. Don't get me wrong taking ideas and suggestions from players is great, and CCP does that, but to actually make in game changes based directly on player input is just bad game design. If amateur people can do it better than you, then why should I invest in your ****** game.

I could list more things, but frankly the post got a little long, so this will have to suffice.

Just a final note, in EVE I have yet to meet a player that is less than 18 years old. It says a lot when you can create a game that is only attractive to grown ups. Don't get me wrong EVE still has many things that needs fixing, but credit is given where credit is due, CCP thank you for EVE. And for all the SC fanboys that are paying thousands of dollars for pixels in a pixel world that doesn't even exist yet, don't count your cookies before you even started preparing the dough, and yea stupid is as stupid does (don't want to be mean, but sometimes honesty is needed).


I worked really hard on a post to rebut some of what you said. However, CCP's wonderful auto Draft Saving feature lost my reply.

So, I'll just say. You're wrong. I disagree with you. and leave it at that.

To CCP: Your wonderful Auto Draft Saving feature sucks ass.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.
Evis Cerate
Doomheim
#143 - 2013-07-16 08:52:05 UTC
For me EVE is very new and shiny still but as a big Wing Commander fan I'm ofc looking forward to Star Citizen, the problem is we just don't know enough about how all the pieces will fit together to say if it will actually turn into something that works... honestly I'm a little worried about some of the news that's coming out lately...

EVE on the other hand is here and works, I don't foresee a mass exodus because I'm expecting Star Citizen to be a very different game.

My Blog : Evis Cerate EVE

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2013-07-16 08:53:25 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:

I worked really hard on a post to rebut some of what you said. However, CCP's wonderful auto Draft Saving feature lost my reply.

So, I'll just say. You're wrong. I disagree with you. and leave it at that.

To CCP: Your wonderful Auto Draft Saving feature sucks ass.


Pro-tip: write it up in notepad first. Blink

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#145 - 2013-07-16 09:07:20 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Inokuma Yawara wrote:

I worked really hard on a post to rebut some of what you said. However, CCP's wonderful auto Draft Saving feature lost my reply.

So, I'll just say. You're wrong. I disagree with you. and leave it at that.

To CCP: Your wonderful Auto Draft Saving feature sucks ass.


Pro-tip: write it up in notepad first. Blink


Malc-tip™: CRTL-C before posting anything that took you more than a minute.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#146 - 2013-07-16 09:08:53 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Most people couldn't care less about the space theme, we play EvE Online because it's the only good old school sandbox mmo-rpg game. For all i care, EvE could be set on Antarctica and we all played as Pinguins, some Pinguins would gather resources, others would build things with this resources, and the last ones would destroy things. I would play that game.

To sum up the EvE experience in one word. Sandbox.


Most people would try almost anything if given a chance.

The problem is the dinosaurs who refuse to adapt to a changing environment. They prefer those comfort zone above all else, and try to force everyone to play their way...in a sandbox game, even.


You been around this forums for a few months and and still don't understand what a sandbox mmo-rpg is.

The Tears Must Flow
Mag's
Azn Empire
#147 - 2013-07-16 09:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Malcanis wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Inokuma Yawara wrote:

I worked really hard on a post to rebut some of what you said. However, CCP's wonderful auto Draft Saving feature lost my reply.

So, I'll just say. You're wrong. I disagree with you. and leave it at that.

To CCP: Your wonderful Auto Draft Saving feature sucks ass.


Pro-tip: write it up in notepad first. Blink


Malc-tip™: CRTL-C before posting anything that took you more than a minute.
Forums the hard way BY CCP. Excellence at work, because animated smilies are so hard to do. ArrowRoll

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#148 - 2013-07-16 09:22:38 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
The problem is the dinosaurs who refuse to adapt to a changing environment. They prefer those comfort zone above all else, and try to force everyone to play their way...in a sandbox game, even.

No, that's not a problem. It's just the filtering mechanism that ensures that those kinds of players never really stick around long enough to ruin EVE.

Space Juden wrote:
I haven't pledged to SC yet, though I will eventually. How could you call it vaporware at this stage?
How much has it delivered so far?

Quote:
Also, how could people say SC doesn't compete with EVE?
Because it does not sit in the same market segment, is of a different genre, and offers vastly different gameplay than EVE. It competes with EVE in the same way StarCraft 2 or the X-series or STO does.
Space Juden
Supermassive Potato Pancake
#149 - 2013-07-16 09:31:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Space Juden wrote:
I haven't pledged to SC yet, though I will eventually. How could you call it vaporware at this stage?
How much has it delivered so far?


Didn't it just enter development?

Quote:
Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled. Vaporware is also a term sometimes used to describe events that are announced or predicted, never officially cancelled, but never intended to happen.


There's your free online education from Wikipedia.

I think it's a bit to early to criticize SC for not delivering on promises... especially when you're defending CCP/EVE

Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#150 - 2013-07-16 09:33:48 UTC
Cypherdog wrote:
Star Citizen

get out. Evil
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
#151 - 2013-07-16 09:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Anna Djan
Joan Greywind wrote:


Red flags from SC: (this doesn't mean it is destined for failure, but as points to say that it has high probability of doing so)

1- No backing from a major publisher.

2- Free to play, how is it going to make money, if it's not pay to win? Cosmetic items don't cut it enough.

3- Entitlement from the start, "capital ships that are integral" that are forever insured. Don't give me that **** about how you can lose your cargo.

4- Caters to everyone, how is that even possible for any game?? In EVE I read and heard quotes from developers that if the game is too harsh for you, then you should leave. They don't hold your hand and theme park it for you.

5- No actual gameplay yet???

6- Very general formula and say what this game would do, but not how to actually do it. I can say I will create the best game in the world but that is very much easier said than done.

7- We are going to create mods where players can create ships. Don't get me wrong taking ideas and suggestions from players is great, and CCP does that, but to actually make in game changes based directly on player input is just bad game design. If amateur people can do it better than you, then why should I invest in your ****** game.

I could list more things, but frankly the post got a little long, so this will have to suffice.

Just a final note, in EVE I have yet to meet a player that is less than 18 years old. It says a lot when you can create a game that is only attractive to grown ups. Don't get me wrong EVE still has many things that needs fixing, but credit is given where credit is due, CCP thank you for EVE. And for all the SC fanboys that are paying thousands of dollars for pixels in a pixel world that doesn't even exist yet, don't count your cookies before you even started preparing the dough, and yea stupid is as stupid does (don't want to be mean, but sometimes honesty is needed).


I suppose I'll provide some insight for you:

1. Chris Roberts has been a veteran developer for many years (having pioneered space sim genre and had his company (Origin) bought by EA. It's why you don't see any more Wing Commanders, Freelancer's etc). The one thing he does not want is a Publisher who will interfere in the design. There's plenty of interviews with him stating such. He has deals with investor's that if he raised 2mil dollars in crowdfunding, he'd get investments of up to 50mil (also available in interviews).

I find what you said the opposite, If a game has a publisher I get worried. Imagine if EA started to publish Eve?

2. It's Buy to play. But as its also been stated multiple times that SC is not an MMO. Think more like DayZ model.

3. I understand and agree some what, having fully insured ships all the time for the people who have backed early can be seen as gaining an advantage. I'd love to fly a Constilation class ship with 4 players in one ship, but I'd prefer to earn it in game rather than spend £180 on it. But you got to make your money somewhere? :)

4. Opinions, opinions... can't see how this is a red flag.

5. Game was in extremely early development at kickstarter (as most kickstarters are). Alpha isn't even available. This is where you take the risk in backing. I backed due to the ideas and vision give, not because of pixels. But I gained access to alpha doing so and will get to see the gameplay first hand eventually.

6. Again it's the faith in Chris Roberts who has been the main developer since I was a young lad who got me in to Sci-fi space sims from Wing Commander to Freelancer. I'm backing the guy, you could say you're doing something, but who are you exactly? :)

7. Have you got a reference to this? I believe he said he will allow mods, but all modded stuff is exclusive to servers with that mod only.


The reason for such passion and excitement is due to it being Chris Roberts and the vision he wants to achieve and as a backer I truly believe he can do it.

So my money, I can do what i like with it and who are you to tell me different? :) Just as you can not back as it's your money. I couldn't give a monkey if you do or don't, so why should you?
Prince Kobol
#152 - 2013-07-16 10:24:10 UTC
Anna Djan wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:


Red flags from SC: (this doesn't mean it is destined for failure, but as points to say that it has high probability of doing so)

1- No backing from a major publisher.

2- Free to play, how is it going to make money, if it's not pay to win? Cosmetic items don't cut it enough.

3- Entitlement from the start, "capital ships that are integral" that are forever insured. Don't give me that **** about how you can lose your cargo.

4- Caters to everyone, how is that even possible for any game?? In EVE I read and heard quotes from developers that if the game is too harsh for you, then you should leave. They don't hold your hand and theme park it for you.

5- No actual gameplay yet???

6- Very general formula and say what this game would do, but not how to actually do it. I can say I will create the best game in the world but that is very much easier said than done.

7- We are going to create mods where players can create ships. Don't get me wrong taking ideas and suggestions from players is great, and CCP does that, but to actually make in game changes based directly on player input is just bad game design. If amateur people can do it better than you, then why should I invest in your ****** game.

I could list more things, but frankly the post got a little long, so this will have to suffice.

Just a final note, in EVE I have yet to meet a player that is less than 18 years old. It says a lot when you can create a game that is only attractive to grown ups. Don't get me wrong EVE still has many things that needs fixing, but credit is given where credit is due, CCP thank you for EVE. And for all the SC fanboys that are paying thousands of dollars for pixels in a pixel world that doesn't even exist yet, don't count your cookies before you even started preparing the dough, and yea stupid is as stupid does (don't want to be mean, but sometimes honesty is needed).


I suppose I'll provide some insight for you:

1. Chris Roberts has been a veteran developer for many years (having pioneered space sim genre and had his company (Origin) bought by EA. It's why you don't see any more Wing Commanders, Freelancer's etc). The one thing he does not want is a Publisher who will interfere in the design. There's plenty of interviews with him stating such. He has deals with investor's that if he raised 2mil dollars in crowdfunding, he'd get investments of up to 50mil (also available in interviews).

I find what you said the opposite, If a game has a publisher I get worried. Imagine if EA started to publish Eve?

2. It's Buy to play. But as its also been stated multiple times that SC is not an MMO. Think more like DayZ model.

3. I understand and agree some what, having fully insured ships all the time for the people who have backed early can be seen as gaining an advantage. I'd love to fly a Constilation class ship with 4 players in one ship, but I'd prefer to earn it in game rather than spend £180 on it. But you got to make your money somewhere? :)

4. Opinions, opinions... can't see how this is a red flag.

5. Game was in extremely early development at kickstarter (as most kickstarters are). Alpha isn't even available. This is where you take the risk in backing. I backed due to the ideas and vision give, not because of pixels. But I gained access to alpha doing so and will get to see the gameplay first hand eventually.

6. Again it's the faith in Chris Roberts who has been the main developer since I was a young lad who got me in to Sci-fi space sims from Wing Commander to Freelancer. I'm backing the guy, you could say you're doing something, but who are you exactly? :)

7. Have you got a reference to this? I believe he said he will allow mods, but all modded stuff is exclusive to servers with that mod only.


The reason for such passion and excitement is due to it being Chris Roberts and the vision he wants to achieve and as a backer I truly believe he can do it.

So my money, I can do what i like with it and who are you to tell me different? :) Just as you can not back as it's your money. I couldn't give a monkey if you do or don't, so why should you?


These reasons (and many more) are why 212,468 people have backed Chris Roberts to the tune of $14,115,722
Templar Knightsbane
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2013-07-16 10:48:42 UTC
EVE Online as a game should should be very worried about SC. Nearly every gamer i play with is looking to this game as a new lease of life for the space simulator.

From what i have seen i can only hope it comes out with some of the polish the Dev campaign is being run with it will attract huge numbers of players.

The ability for people who have flocked towards EVE over the years to be able to play a game from its inception and not to be left dragging by 10 years is also a massive draw!

To say SC wont be an amazing game, is to be childish and unproffesional, because you just dont know and if it is will CCP wish that it had upped its game now when they had a chance!!!
SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
#154 - 2013-07-16 11:03:08 UTC
Why can't people play both games?

What I find funny is how some (not all, I say some) people affect a tone of "CCP better change Eve to appeal to the masses or it's screwed".

It'll be a fun game I'm sure, but the tone above I find very childish.

...
Prince Kobol
#155 - 2013-07-16 11:23:47 UTC
SmokinDank wrote:
Why can't people play both games?

What I find funny is how some (not all, I say some) people affect a tone of "CCP better change Eve to appeal to the masses or it's screwed".

It'll be a fun game I'm sure, but the tone above I find very childish.


Once again not everybody has the time, money, will, interest to invest heavily in 2 games
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#156 - 2013-07-16 11:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
This is why CCP Seagull gave a blue-sky presentation at FanFest: to remind the players that CCP still has the same huge, crazy dream for their universe.


Still waiting on things from the 2010 fanfest to be implemented, its summer 2013.

Vision and delivery are galaxies apart my friend.

I still think soundwaves vision of the game is legendary.

An I'm still waiting to see it.

Quote:
Also, how could people say SC doesn't compete with EVE? Are you from CCP? They probably don't think PS4, BF4, CODwhatever, competes with DUST. Their opinion is pretty much invalid at this point.


If you can call 5000 players competition anyway.

Quote:
Why can't people play both games?

What I find funny is how some (not all, I say some) people affect a tone of "CCP better change Eve to appeal to the masses or it's screwed".

It'll be a fun game I'm sure, but the tone above I find very childish.


I have 2 children and obligation to provide for them. It would be childish to spend too much time playing games on a PC.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#157 - 2013-07-16 11:53:49 UTC
Templar Knightsbane wrote:

To say SC wont be an amazing game, is to be childish and unproffesional, because you just dont know and if it is will CCP wish that it had upped its game now when they had a chance!!!


By the same token, so is saying it will be.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Prince Kobol
#158 - 2013-07-16 11:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Malcanis wrote:
Templar Knightsbane wrote:

To say SC wont be an amazing game, is to be childish and unproffesional, because you just dont know and if it is will CCP wish that it had upped its game now when they had a chance!!!


By the same token, so is saying it will be.


Yet nobody is saying IT IS going to be a great game, people are saying that it has the potential (bolded, underlined and linked a definition for you as I know you have a habit of missing things Blink) to be a great game given that its Chris Roberts + $14 million dollars.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#159 - 2013-07-16 11:58:38 UTC
IMHO, SC is a real threat to X Rebirth, not to EvE.

I cannot care less. I'm currently playing EvE and the X series, and I will welcome SC if it finally launches with all the promised features.

I expent soo many hours flying in the first privateer game... good memories.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#160 - 2013-07-16 12:05:28 UTC
Templar Knightsbane wrote:
To say SC wont be an amazing game, is to be childish and unproffesional
No, it is to be realistic and cautious — insinuating that it will be anything more than, well, a game is naïve and unprofessional. You can hope, but any hard claim beyond that is just silly.