EVE General Discussion

First, we'd need to put aside a Semantics debate.


Is a board game like Monopoly PvP

I would say it is ... there is a zero sum game where one player in the end profits or loses at the expense of the other.

NOW, If you don't want to call a board game like Monopoly PVP tell us what you want us to call it to end the debate in Semantics .

Monopoly is certainly NOT a PVE game... it is competitive.. with winners and losers influenced both by chance and by canny (especially where charm etc influences who trades what property for how much etc). Tell us what to call hat.

Monopoly does have some PvE portions. If you pass go you get $200 . Money from GO is PVE as is the chance card "Insurance police matures, you receive $100)

Now. how lucky you are with your PVE in terms of pulling the right card, and how many times players pass goal before one or another goes broke does influence incrementally who wins or loses in the Competitive(PvP) portion of the board game. Those payments from go, like the bounties etc, are gifts from the scaffold of the game that come from Environment (npcs) to players.

We can mince words around the edges ..i.e. a player in monopoly can't keep another from passing go but a player can have some effect on how much and how rich PVE opportunities are like lvl4 or belt ratting... yet only incrementally less (like reducing chance to pass go 10% of the time) which doesn't materially change the nature of that activity being a cash flow between Environment to player rather than from player to player.

No, I'm simply classifying all content where you compete against players or where players, rather than the environment, are the source of opposition as “Player versus Player”.

Kind of, but I've not really said otherwise. What you have there is PvE (shooting rats) generating PvP (resource gathering in competition with other players).

a) and c) are the same thing: ratting. b) is resource gathering, which is a competitive activity in this game: the only opposition and competition you have in doing so is other players (ok, some would say that the UI and/or the immense dullness are some kind of opposing forces, but PvUI not a generally accepted classification )-

None of it offers any kind of opposition from the environment, only competition with other players. The new hacking minigame is perhaps the only PvE part of it: some piece of (non-player) opposition that you need to overcome before the player-competitive part can begin (gathering the resources).

No ISK is being destroyed when insurance is triggered — only assets. Buying an insurance policy removes some ISK, but the pay-out is always bigger, and while it could conceivably happen that people keep paying policies that aren't triggered, in reality it doesn't happen.

Not justify, no. but to make them fit in.

Not, all MMOs, no. Just most of them. EVE is — thankfully — one of the exceptions. Also, D&D most certainly had PvP. Hell, it came from pure PvP roots, and the only thing that kept players from going after each other was an unspoken social contract… And there was always the “malevolent GM” way of playing it, which certainly pitted players against each others.

There have been competitive multiplayer games for as long as there has been user-accessible computers, for the simple reason that creating an AI to provide opposition was not really within the realm of feasibility in the early days. It had to come from other players.

This is perhaps the most blatantly ignorant and clueless thing I have ever seen you write, and that says a lot. Markets are 100% PvP — even the parts where you trade with NPCs.

Wordsmithing.

But she's clearly on a roll to define something she doesn't understand.

If content was in Zelda, for example, it's PvE. As that is all that existed with solo games.

Offline Elder Scrolls is also a classic example. Solo. All PvE content in it. Baldur's Gate. Icewind Dale, too. Quests and dungeons included.

Sounds like we agree . LIke I said. (and like you said). monopoly is a pvp game with a pve portion of it (i prefered the passing go example used to the luxury tax myself) . It also sound like I disagree with Tipia ... I think that the pvp portion of mining and missions is so secondary that it doesn't meaninfully recast those activities as pvp. It does sound like ICE mining is reaching a level where the competition is more important than the process. I don't think more than a few percent of people running level 4s, if it is even that much, ever get ganked. Perhaps if you use a really expensive faction ship, you move yourself from a PVE to a PVP activity by taunting the gankers (jeeze guys.. just use cheap ships and don't use freighters and the pve stays pve for you)

I agree that rescuing the damsel sucks.

But most PVE is sort of drudgery in other games too but it is the "look an feel" that just happens to be more soothing to one person or another. I can kill ogres for hours on end in wow... in a sunny place or a cave.. I loved Nagrand if you played that game and found most of the Panda lands cheerful.

Space is kind of dark. I like light sunny places ... that 's the real problem with the damsel.

If the mission were took nearly the same engergy and I saw damsels dancing left and right on top of the platforms, scantily clad.. and I saw the mean krull guy groan and hold his heart and go into a death throw.. I'd like the damsel mission.

But, I suspect that is personal preference about color and content.

Some people don't want silly in a game. I like silly.

I find these forums pretty silly .. which is GOOD >> silly is Good for me (other people find them rude but I think the rudeness is pretty silly and people trolling are just engaged in silly hijinx etc.. i find that sort of posturing refreshing and amusing)


I don't find anything that takes quick twitch very interesting. I do like things that take bluffing and stuff.. which is why I like the space ship pew pew pvp.. its the hunt. not the engagement itself that I find most fun.


But Challenging PVE ? Aren't the incursions and sleepers more challenging? I mean... expecting low level missions to be exiciting is kind of dumb.. its like expecting a starter zone or something to be challenging when people are just figuring out the interface.

The thing that is dumb is that there isn't a challenging way to build standing on your own a character can pull the now more challenging level 4 missions.

You make it sound like hi, low and null are completely different places, when in reality they are pretty similar, PvE content exist outside hi-sec as well. The main difference is that you can not ignore the players around you, which is really what a mmo and especially eve is about, playing the same game with other people.

Wow. This thread is truly ironic.

Tippa I think we've all arrived at a very special place. Spiritually, ecumenically, grammatically.

So back to something vaguely resembling the original post, the advice given to the person playing the PvE content was akin to (I'm on my tablet so not looking it up): go do PvP that's they way Eve is meant to be played. And my point is that the part of the game the mentor was telling the student to give up can't be given up (id call it pve) . Sure, some playes buy plex, others are filthy rich from station trading, scamming or getting other people to work for them (like ceos of most hisec mining corp) ), but the general shooting of crosses and mining of roids must take place for the Eve economy to function. Simply telling people to stop doing it isn't a viable solution.

I'm not even saying it should be fixed. The PvE content has apparently been bad for a long time and Eve is still going strong. But its bad just the same and is still necessary.

Ok, I guess i misread



but your clarification is acceptable. I for one, IRL, happen to like the foreplay though. If I hadn't let things go to far and now have these 3 kids, I'd let the foreplay go on for hours at a time. But that still wouldn't stop me from eventually getting to the "fulfilling experience" if you know what I mean. In Eve, a video game people pay for, the foreplay is boring and unexciting. If the main event wasn't so damn good, no one would play.

So you can join a corporation, and participate in the actual game of Eve, but you're still going to be shooting the red crosses and mining the 'roids and those things suck. Doesn't seem like a video game should have to suck. And those sucky things are the basis of the Eve economy. They are even the basis of PvP for without industry there would be nothing to protect and fight over. Eve would just be an arena style battle game like I hallucinate Dota2 or LoL or WoT are. So they are required and simultaneously suck. Its working for Eve, so probably doesn't have to be changed, but it seems like a shame.

Its painfully obvious to me. Quit making the same ******* thread over and over and over again and post legit ideas in the "ideas" section of the forums.