These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

EVE's Bait & Switch Design Philosophy

First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#281 - 2013-07-18 11:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Here, read (maybe difficult) but try...

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/72593
So you don't understand how PLEX works, in other words, since that article was to difficult for you.

Quote:
Everyone but their dead uncle understands how PLEX works
…except the ones who confuse it — a method for paying your subscription — with the lack of any kind of subscription, much less the need to pay for one, that characterises F2P.

Quote:
Actually, the first elephant was EQ that ushered in the MMO craze at the time.
…except that EQ was neither an elephant or the first, and didn't particularly usher in anything.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2013-07-18 11:59:25 UTC
Love it. Come to a thread and the poster is on /ignore and the thread looks empty! lololol

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Groggolog
Sons of Luminaire
Villore Accords
#283 - 2013-07-20 10:19:15 UTC
you sir, are an idiot. sandbox does not mean you get to do whatever you want, there is nothing in the sandbox stopping a kid from kicking sand into your face, and this is the same in eve. If it gave you the opportunity to play without being harassed by other players, it would be like daycare watched over by adults rather than a sandbox.

eve is therefore a sandbox, there are very few game mechanics that stop you from doing what you want, the majority of it is other players decision, and their choices of what they want to do in the sandbox.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2013-07-20 11:33:50 UTC
Groggolog wrote:
If it gave you the opportunity to play without being harassed by other players, it would be like daycare watched over by adults rather than a sandbox.


Do you know who those "adults" are called?

Devs.

And they dictate what the game is, what it will become and it's future.

So any idea a sandbox game is just player derived, is BS.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#285 - 2013-07-20 14:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Spenser for Hire
Groggolog wrote:
you sir, are an idiot. sandbox does not mean you get to do whatever you want, there is nothing in the sandbox stopping a kid from kicking sand into your face, and this is the same in eve. If it gave you the opportunity to play without being harassed by other players, it would be like daycare watched over by adults rather than a sandbox.

eve is therefore a sandbox, there are very few game mechanics that stop you from doing what you want, the majority of it is other players decision, and their choices of what they want to do in the sandbox.



Was that "You sir, are an idiot" directed at me?
How dare you! You have the unmitigated gall ....

Actually, I thought my post was pretty on point. I've been saying the same thing for years, so I'm pretty practiced at it.
My post is focused on the "BAITING" nature of EVE Online's design. Hence the title, "EVE Online's Bait and Switch Design philosophy."

To use your quite vulgar analogy: At no point does my post state, suggest or imply that "kids should be stopped from kicking sand in the faces of other kids." What my post is concerned with is, when kids are drawn to the sandbox with the promise that they will be able to build a Sandcastle, but when they get to the 'sandbox', the problem isn't the other kids kicking sand in their faces, its the shovels and buckets with holes in them, so that the kid wind up scattering more sand then they use in their Sandcastles, and the sandcastles are subsequently Sisyphian tasks. Then, when those kids come to the forums to complain about all the Shovels and Buckets with HOLES in them, they're told "Oh, well, the buckets and shovels in Null-Sec don't have any holes in them. so, you'll be able to build your sandcastle in Null-sec much faster." That is a Bait and Switch.

Now, try to stay with me here.

This Bait and Switch is designed to feed the local Sandbox bullies with vicims.
As I said in the OP: Null-Sec can NOT be sold to Gamers on its own merits, because, quite frankly, it has none. because Null-Sec has no merits, no value, no meaning as a game, CCP must resort to a blatant Bait and Switch to get players to participate in it.

Since its release 'That other game that shall remain nameless' has refined its end-game content over and over again from expansion to expansion, Why can't ... why doesn't CCP refine Null-Sec gameplay??? Why doesn't CCP have the integrity to say: "If we want them to play in Null-Sec, lets advertize Null-Sec." ??? If we want them to play in Null-Sec lets sell them Null-Sec!


edit: This is the reason I rarely respond in threads I've created, because my posts would be nothing but Spam, I'd be saying the same thing over and over again.

In your face "Draft Saved" mechanic!

Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2013-07-20 19:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Spenser for Hire wrote:
This Bait and Switch is designed to feed the local Sandbox bullies with vicims.


That's how PvP games are designed.

Cheap kills for cheap killers.

You know you're playing a PvP game is when...

1. Routes from point A to point B are long (and in games with flying mounts, you're required to use riding mounts...or walk from point A to point B. In EvE there's 100000000001 gates, and campers can be on anyone, for a "sense of danger" in an otherwise boring ride).

Reason? PvPers whine if they can't kill something easy.

2. Game has a version of herd animals to keep predators happy.

Reason? Read reason #1.

3. Herd animals are defenseless (either it's newbies without gear or skill; or in EvE mining ships without defenses or OFFENSES).

Reason? Read reason #1. If the herd can moo back, the predators get scared and immediately run to the forums to whine and make 1000001 threads about the unfairness...because not everyone can be everyone vs everyone....................

That's the true bait and switch in all of it.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#287 - 2013-07-20 19:22:55 UTC
Spenser for Hire wrote:
Now, try to stay with me here.

This Bait and Switch is designed to feed the local Sandbox bullies with vicims.
…except that there is no bait-and-switch and that bullying gets you banned from the game.

Quote:
Null-Sec can NOT be sold to Gamers on its own merits, because, quite frankly, it has none.
It has plenty of merits. Some of them aren't really there yet because random highseccers don't want null to function, but that doesn't mean that there are no merits at all. It's also been able to sell itself just fine on the merits it has, as shown by the fact that people are out there.

Quote:
CCP must resort to a blatant Bait and Switch to get players to participate in it.
Again, no. What you perceive as a bait-and-switch is actually players making false assumptions about how a sandbox works when extended to a multiplayer environment. People participate it knowing full well what they're getting themselves into. Just because some choose to blunder into it uninformed doesn't mean that they're victims of any kind of intentional deception.

Quote:
Since its release 'That other game that shall remain nameless' has refined its end-game content over and over again from expansion to expansion, Why can't ... why doesn't CCP refine Null-Sec gameplay??? Why doesn't CCP have the integrity to say: "If we want them to play in Null-Sec, lets advertize Null-Sec." ??? If we want them to play in Null-Sec lets sell them Null-Sec!
Because, again, that's not what they want to sell. There is no end-game content in this game — there is only the sandbox, and that is what they're selling. So why on earth should they try to sell some kind of lie that has nothing to do with the actual game? They are refining nullsec gameplay, just like they're refining all other gameplay. The only problem (and I'm using that word very liberally here) is that there is a lot of game to refine, and lots of moving parts — going after just one part and making sweeping changes without taking the other parts into consideration only leads to a horribly broken game.