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PvP is totally uncompetitive and unfair

First post
Author
Dave stark
#81 - 2013-06-29 11:26:25 UTC
oh look, it's this thread again.

OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-06-29 11:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS



Dude, I don't really know if desperation or hopeless is the right word about you if you continue that route of thinking.

Being a noobie in pvp can be extremely rewarding and you don't have to be in full T2 stuff, at all, believe me if many many noobies in our organization have far more isk 1month later than I do after playing several years.

The thing you need to realize in pvp, one of the most rewarding job to do is PIN STUFF, not leave them run away, hold them for high dps fellah's to take it down.
Very often older players don't do this not because it's unfunny but because it's a task where you die very often and our pods cost already more than the full fitted frigate. This prevent many of us to have fun pinning down stuff, because it's hell fun doing it.

So as a noobie, you're mainly asked to start doing this not because it's tedious or unrewarding but for many reasons including the one I just mentioned.
It's the best job to do for a newbie to learn Eve pvp basics: make a perch, provide warp out points for fleet/gang, tackle stuff at the gate or in fights, get logis safe of other inties, hell so much stuff to learn and rewarding.
Yes it's rewarding because if you are in a decent group you're doing one of the most important jobs, and when you do it right usually the FC or older players just shower noobies with isk, some guys will give you a million, others 10 some 1B doesn't matter in the end, all you need to get is that you're doing it fking wrong and you're wasting time trying to achieve something you will not succeed as fast as you could if you understand you need to learn basics first, not jump directly to a full T2 frigate and be top DPS.

If you really think noobies are out or excluded from pvp in Eve you're completely wrong, no other game a 1D old character can perfectly achieve the pin down of a 10 years player and offer to his team mates great kills.

Again, you're doing it really wrong and you should feel bad for posting that. Join RvsB, awesome people, good FC's, excellent training and tons of fun on coms or fighting, just stop complaining and do it god dammit !!

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2013-06-29 11:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


My corp of new players killing people in t1 frigates and t1 cruisers with t1 guns would like to prove you wrong on that.

I even got older player that only ever knew missioning and mining joining corp.

http://camp.killmail.org/

Even if you decided to swallow your great big crocodile tears long enough to try and join them. I won't allow a sniffling little cry baby like you to join anyway. Even If you had the joining fee.

You got the wrong attitude for pvp.


Quoting myself on a new page incase you missed it.

Suck it up... then try again, but change the attitude first.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Azurae
Doomheim
#84 - 2013-06-29 11:28:43 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares).


why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing.

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Somebody losed a duel.....


No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun


would you expect to kick the ass of a lvl 80 player in wow or some other game when you yourself are still lvl 20-30 ?? i dont think so...

you are in this game for 19 days, ffs what did you expect? about 99% of the player base has been playing longer than you and you arent specialized in anything yet... focus your skills on one thing, specialize in it and suddenly you are as good as the old players in frigates...
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-06-29 11:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Azurae wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Get into a T1 frigate with T1 fittings and join RvB (make sure you keep plenty of spares).


why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing.

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Somebody losed a duel.....


No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun


would you expect to kick the ass of a lvl 80 player in wow or some other game when you yourself are still lvl 20-30 ?? i dont think so...

you are in this game for 19 days, ffs what did you expect? about 99% of the player base has been playing longer than you and you arent specialized in anything yet... focus your skills on one thing, specialize in it and suddenly you are as good as the old players in frigates...


You to... Your kind does not help.

A 19 day old pilot will kill a guy in a battleship. All he needs is the understanding how to handle himself in that situation.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

flakeys
Doomheim
#86 - 2013-06-29 11:35:35 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner.

PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself.


yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over


I'll give you a short eve pvp lesson:


First you are young you are gonna complain the older guys get you ...
Then you are older you are gonna complain you get 3 or 5 against you....
Then you decide to do a roam with 5 friends and get hotdropped by capitals...
Then you decide to join a big null Alliance , get into a war and you complain the other guy outnumbeers you 5 to 1....
Then you decide to join the biggest blob around , the CFC , get into a war and complain because the smaller guy you decided to attack actually get's people helping him making the odds more even..


In short eve pvp is like fitting your ship for pvp.When you fit a disruptor you should have taken a scrambler , if you take a sensor booster you should have taken a webifier , when you fly purifiers you should have taken a drake and when you fly a drake you shoulld have taken a sabre, fit damage and you should have fit for tank and fit tank you should have taken damage .....


Eve pvp rarely is fun , it is mostly an un-even fight and 90% of the time it's either you blobbing out the enemy making it boring as hell or the enemy blobbing the **** out of you making it soooooooooo unfair.


HOWEVER , the verry rare 1vs1 you will get and you come out as the winner by a verry thin margin is THE BEST thing any game can offer you out there.It's like being a father , most of the times your kids will suck the blood right out of you , but the few times they are behaving like angels makes it the best thing in the world to be a dad.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2013-06-29 11:43:28 UTC
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:
Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5.

No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters.Blink

In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level...

.

BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#88 - 2013-06-29 11:44:28 UTC
Apherolaz wrote:

Guys with more skill points and more ISK will crush you every time.

If you insist on sticking around, you are going to have to accept the fact that all you are good for is padding the stats of better players - at least until you have 6 months of PvP skill training under your belt.



Not true. The KB's are filled with proof on that one.

Guys with more skill points and ISK will NOT crush you every time. I've gone solo against pilots 1-2 years older than me and won when we were both in similar ships. I'm just one pilot. My Ceo's first kill was against a player who was over a year older than him and he won. I have many similar stories and so do MANY of the players in Eve.

Wherever you think you got your stats and timeframe of what makes a successful PvPer is pretty whack.


I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-06-29 11:46:35 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS
Yes and no. A one month old player has only a very small chance against a highly skilled and talented PvPer one on one. On the other hand,

Not to long ago a very strong/skilled pirate in a professional Pirate/PvP Alliance wardec a Highsec Corp filled with new players. This Pirate was getting about 500 kills a month with very few losses, so they are good. But they did write about this one loss they experienced against this new player mining Corp. It seem the pirate had attacked two of the miners who were out in combat ships and had drained their cap and was working through their armor when a third member of that Corp showed up. The Pirate lost their ship.

Adapt.
Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints
#90 - 2013-06-29 11:58:06 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again.

So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about.

There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine.

Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends.


This is true. Más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo. The devil knows more because he is older, rather than for being the devil.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#91 - 2013-06-29 12:01:03 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:
Yes there are unfair advantages for older players flying frigates versus a new player with their frigate. But the training time isn't too bad. Within 1 month you should have, if you've narrowed your skill training to frigates and the mods associated with it, your skill books should be around lvl 4-5.

No mmo that I know of has there been a new player going around pawning older characters.Blink

In most other MMOs it takes you at most 2 weeks to get to max level...


Depends on the MMO; I'm pretty sure the EQ grind these days is ridiculous.
Lucy Cooper
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2013-06-29 12:41:58 UTC
I know this is probably posted already but rvb is some pew or you know join a corp that can field at least a small fleet.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
#93 - 2013-06-29 12:48:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
A few months ago a couple of friends and I made a brand new characters of various races, trained to use a warp disruptor an AB and basic T1 weaponry and went pvping in less than 24 hours. We won a surprising number of engagements, there were 4 or 5 of us, sometimes we solo'd or in pairs and sometimes all 5 of us. We had an enormous amount of fun for a couple of weeks, in fact some of the best fun Ive had in a long time. In fact I may just do it again.

So basically, op doesn't have clue what he is talking about.

There is a difference between your newb alts and the OP, that difference is experience, the ships are fine, the modules are fine and the skills available to a newbie are fine.

Experience only comes with time and practice just as it does in real life, but yeah even the greenest of newbies can dive straight into PvP and get in on kills while they gain the experience. The best way to learn to PvP is to do it, preferably with friends.



You are right of course, however that isnt what the op is saying, he is saying the skills and weapons of older players are unfair. There is no comparison to actual playing experience in any game and Eve is no different.

Like I said though it is immense fun to go back to those newbie characters and just have fun with them, a great laugh and at minimal expense and on top of that you can engage and win too, it isnt just about fun getting blown up, which if you are playing the game is it should be - a game then you will be having fun wether you win or lose.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#94 - 2013-06-29 12:54:07 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
oh look, it's this thread again.

OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel?


That he's finally found an opponent he can cope with?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-06-29 13:02:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
oh look, it's this thread again.

OP, you're wrong and you're beating a dead horse. how does it feel?


That he's finally found an opponent he can cope with?


Boys and girls, don't try this at home.

Always remember to poke dead things with a stick before you start kicking or beating them.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#96 - 2013-06-29 13:02:22 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Shut up, and get out. I've been PVP'ing on a toon with less than 1mil SP for just under a month now. And winning... occasionally.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Loraxx Zeus
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-06-29 13:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Loraxx Zeus
You are totally right.

I totally didn't start pvp'in when I was 1 month into the game....

/sarcasm

On a serious note, I have been pvp'in since 2008, not once have I ever felt that I never stood a chance.

You just need to learn to shrug losses off, get back on the horse. I fly about in t2 fit, t2 rigged harpies often and die to 30 man blobs, shrug it, get a new one. Back in 2008 it would be meta/t2 fit incursus or rifter, a total cost of like 5mil.

Once you learn, you lose a lot less. I can't remember the last time I lost a 1v1, lost plenty of 1vX amount however lol.
Loraxx Zeus
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2013-06-29 13:11:12 UTC
flakeys wrote:
[quote=Paul Otichoda][quote=Gallowmere Rorschach]

#1 First you are young you are gonna complain the older guys get you ...
#2 Then you are older you are gonna complain you get 3 or 5 against you....
#3 Then you decide to do a roam with 5 friends and get hotdropped by capitals...
#4 Then you decide to join a big null Alliance , get into a war and you complain the other guy outnumbeers you 5 to 1....
#5 Then you decide to join the biggest blob around , the CFC , get into a war and complain because the smaller guy you decided to attack actually get's people helping him making the odds more even..
.


Can I build on that?

At the very end:

Then you go on the forums complaining that pvp is so hard to come by and barely anyone fights, while completely obvious to the fact it's due to you dropping more supers than they have in support.
Then you decide to quit/leave, a long with a ton of other people and the coalition/alliance collapses underneath itself.
Then you decide to go through the whole process again, starting from number 4
Tarsha Listur
Glamour Bunnies
#99 - 2013-06-29 13:25:35 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:



Well general D we tried to help him in new citizens Q&A but he's a failure of gaming...he's all yours.


Thanks...
Jamagh
Grand Violations
#100 - 2013-06-29 13:26:33 UTC
Is it unfair? *shrugs* That is life. there is always going to be someone better than you. Besides, death IS the ultimate fairness. Young or old. Rich or poor. Strong or weak. Death comes for them all.

"Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."  CCP Navigator.