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PvP is totally uncompetitive and unfair

First post
Author
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2013-06-29 21:50:55 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
oops another 2013 player posting that is having fun in PvP. Sorry to the OP for bursting bubbles.

http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1589649


yeah and you're lose board also shows you have tech 2 weapons and all your kills have been with a large fleet.

So pretty much what everyone has said is:


  • your an idiot and l2p
  • go play Wow
  • go to corp X
  • frigates are only good for tackling in a fleet


well if the last is true why bother having frigates at all in the game if they can't do anything by themselves.

Those who said frigs are only good for tackling in a fleet (don't actually recall anyone using those exact words though) have never been involved with faction warfare. Out here, we have to ship down to T1 frigs more often than anything else. It's all that can fit in novice plexes, and when someone sees a Thrasher rolling around system, where do you think they run to? I'm almost a year old, and I spend more time in a Breacher now than anything else. Best part? It's a lot more fun than lumbering around in a slow ass battleship. :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#122 - 2013-06-29 22:26:34 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Eternal Corrosion wrote:
Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo.

Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you.

Bad lowsec piwate o7


Meanwhile, have you seen this?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game

It'll be PvE.

Won't have to worry about low self-esteem basement boys polluting space.

Keep pushing and the only thing left for you to play with is some Goon bots.


Sounds good. At least goon bots don't fill up the forum with nega-logic spergstorms

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Zane Tekitsu
The Munitions Miracle Network
#123 - 2013-06-30 00:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zane Tekitsu
Paul Otichoda wrote:


~Blah blah bah~

why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing.


So why was this thread started?


Don't like pvp? Pay someone else to.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#124 - 2013-06-30 00:26:36 UTC
Zane Tekitsu wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:


~Blah blah bah~

why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing.


So why was this thread started?


Don't like pvp? Pay someone else to.


This thread was started because:

Reality of EVE ---> PvP requires thought, planning, and patience.

OP ---> Does not have, or does not want to use, thought, planning, or patience.

Because everything should be some dumbass twitch shooter like CoD... Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Robert Saint
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-06-30 03:02:37 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS



I've found in this forum that it is so very "As it is Stable" that these types of posts are just a lost battle.

I totally agree with you though and think there needs to be a PVP intro Arena, but that got shot down by the same group that will kill yours.... "They say" and I don't even need to read the posts.... the same thing over and over. -- because they are already seasoned and think of new players as food...

1) Join RVB
2) Start small with T1 frigate
3) Find another game to play
4) Get balls and get out and die...
5) Start your own group and do it your way.....blah ... blah..... blah.

Same old , same old...

You've just learned that there is an established group that trolls in the forums to keep things as they are.... sort of like a Troll Mafia.


But, if you leave, can I have your stuff... (stole that one from a Mafia troll).



Robert Saint
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-06-30 03:06:33 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Eternal Corrosion wrote:
Go back to mine so we, the bad people, can kill you in your mining ship and harvest your tears with our t2 guns while we use our faction ammo.

Also, go to manufacturing so i can buy a ship to kill you.

Bad lowsec piwate o7


Meanwhile, have you seen this?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game

It'll be PvE.

Won't have to worry about low self-esteem basement boys polluting space.

Keep pushing and the only thing left for you to play with is some Goon bots.


Sounds good. At least goon bots don't fill up the forum with nega-logic spergstorms


Dude, your call sign says CSM does it not... aren't you here for the little people - - - all the little people, not just your Mafia?

you should keep your own negative comment in control . . . .


Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#127 - 2013-06-30 03:06:56 UTC
Zane Tekitsu wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:


~Blah blah bah~

why should I bother wasting my time on pvp when I can just go back to mining where I can actually make money and feeling like I'm doing something. In PvP I feel like nothing.


So why was this thread started?


Don't like pvp? Pay someone else to.


Whoooa...slow down there Speedy Gonzales you may short out his last braincell.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2013-06-30 03:17:31 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


pvp for new players you have to sacrifice a few things

you won't kill anyone solo, but you can join a fleet and leech off of them, you won't ever get any loot, and the whole scenario is about as fun, as mining.
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#129 - 2013-06-30 03:17:51 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS



I've found in this forum that it is so very "As it is Stable" that these types of posts are just a lost battle.

I totally agree with you though and think there needs to be a PVP intro Arena, but that got shot down by the same group that will kill yours.... "They say" and I don't even need to read the posts.... the same thing over and over. -- because they are already seasoned and think of new players as food...

1) Join RVB
2) Start small with T1 frigate
3) Find another game to play
4) Get balls and get out and die...
5) Start your own group and do it your way.....blah ... blah..... blah.

Same old , same old...

You've just learned that there is an established group that trolls in the forums to keep things as they are.... sort of like a Troll Mafia.


But, if you leave, can I have your stuff... (stole that one from a Mafia troll).



Hang on, if you want a risk free learning environment you should try the test server.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#130 - 2013-06-30 03:23:14 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
pvp for new players you have to sacrifice a few things

you won't kill anyone solo

Rubbish. See my earlier post.

Knights Armament wrote:
but you can join a fleet and leech off of them, you won't ever get any loot

Sorry, this is just absolute nonsense.

Knights Armament wrote:
and the whole scenario is about as fun, as mining.

I understand now. You've never actually done it, have you?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-06-30 03:25:05 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
pvp for new players you have to sacrifice a few things

you won't kill anyone solo

Rubbish. See my earlier post.

Knights Armament wrote:
but you can join a fleet and leech off of them, you won't ever get any loot

Sorry, this is just absolute nonsense.

Knights Armament wrote:
and the whole scenario is about as fun, as mining.

I understand now. You've never actually done it, have you?



yeah I've never done it, I just make wild accusations to upset people on a general message board to point out how lame arguing on the internet is.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#132 - 2013-06-30 03:32:46 UTC
Quote:
yeah I've never done it, I just make wild accusations to point out how lame I am.


Fixed it for you.

Whatever else you say, you seem to not really have much PvP experience at all. Because the game isn't like what you think.

It seems to me, like you, the OP, and a few other guys, got whipped once, then decided that the entire game isn't fair just based on that one encounter, and decided that if you can't beat em, whine about em on the forums.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2013-06-30 03:50:20 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Those who said frigs are only good for tackling in a fleet (don't actually recall anyone using those exact words though) have never been involved with faction warfare. Out here, we have to ship down to T1 frigs more often than anything else. It's all that can fit in novice plexes, and when someone sees a Thrasher rolling around system, where do you think they run to? I'm almost a year old, and I spend more time in a Breacher now than anything else. Best part? It's a lot more fun than lumbering around in a slow ass battleship. :)


And the small T1 fits are popular in ALL PvP in EvE...because it's cheap. It doesn't matter if it's FW.

Bottomline is: you don't play with expensive ships to have a daily pewpewpew. It costs too much.

The problem there is those cheap T1 frigates are also the only ships newbies can fly, and they get hit like in WoW by a level 90 ganking a level 10 in the process, over and over and over.

Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#134 - 2013-06-30 03:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Those who said frigs are only good for tackling in a fleet (don't actually recall anyone using those exact words though) have never been involved with faction warfare. Out here, we have to ship down to T1 frigs more often than anything else. It's all that can fit in novice plexes, and when someone sees a Thrasher rolling around system, where do you think they run to? I'm almost a year old, and I spend more time in a Breacher now than anything else. Best part? It's a lot more fun than lumbering around in a slow ass battleship. :)




Bottomline is: you don't play with expensive ships to have a daily pewpewpew. It costs too much.



Wait...what?...I guess it costs too much if you're a bad and loosing ships is the usual end result of your pewpew.
Robert Saint
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#135 - 2013-06-30 04:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Saint
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses.


THIS....
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#136 - 2013-06-30 04:32:58 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses.


THIS....


No, not THIS...

Skill points are important but they are not the end of the story. Equally important is knowing your ship's strengths and weaknesses. This defines your engagement decisions.

So a 100m SP veteran in a Rifter could easily be killed by a 5m SP player in a Condor (curse him, I hate Condors). Those same players in identical ships will, of course, be a different outcome. But you can choose who to fight.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-06-30 04:54:38 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses.


Then by all means buy a pvp focused character with perfect t1 frigate skills and see how well you'll do. It won't cost much since to get those skills you'll need 5-6 months training (tops). And for nearly perfect skills you'll need only a couple months. So go ahead try it. You can then come back complaining about how unfair is that "wasting" time training skills doesn't give you enough advantage over new pilots.
Fenix Caderu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2013-06-30 05:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenix Caderu
You're doing it wrong...

I don't get why anyone expects a fair fight in EvE. This isn't some fantasy game with orcs and warlocks. There are no knights to duel for honor, the only honor is getting that killmail. It's simulated space combat...ie, war, with assets at stake. In war you have to win, by any means possible. Try having that mindset instead of expecting a fair fight.

Hate to say it because ive been victim of the blob before too, but no tactic is cheap as long as it works.

Edit: and as others have said, you can be effective at any level in pvp. Target selection is key, though. Try dueling ppl around your lvl first, then ease into FW once you know your ship better and what targets to attack. You don't need a lot of training, a frigate is fine.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2013-06-30 05:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Zappity wrote:
Robert Saint wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses.


THIS....


No, not THIS...

Skill points are important but they are not the end of the story. Equally important is knowing your ship's strengths and weaknesses. This defines your engagement decisions.

So a 100m SP veteran in a Rifter could easily be killed by a 5m SP player in a Condor (curse him, I hate Condors). Those same players in identical ships will, of course, be a different outcome. But you can choose who to fight.


That's no different in WoW. A healer isn't going to fare well attacking a DPS player. A healer if they're going to attack in PvP is going to find someone they can have a chance to kill (like a pesky rogue who thinks he has a great target but made the mistake of not locking the healer down).

So even in WoW you have to pick your targets carefully...even at max level.

In EvE, a low SP player has more options, but he can equally be countered well if the other player knows his stuff (just like in WoW). That's the main premise here.

A low SP player isn't going to have the skills for say ECM drones or countermeasures, that's specialized gameplay. He has skills that are quick to level and get on the battlefield, the same skills that a competent higher SP player can defeat even in the same level of ships.

And how is that possible...experience. The newbie will take a month or longer to learn what to do do against what ship. The vet already knows all that.

Also the lower SP player isn't going to pick X ship (like the Condor) because it can counter Z ship, because he isn't experienced enough to know (and if you've been in enough corps, you'll know they don't offer such tips regularly to find out -- last one I was in I was doing builds for players. How? All my time in WoW, because if you compete in raids or PvP you must know your class, gear and tactics...doesn't change because I play EvE. You check the recommended builds on Battleclinic, and deduct why X is used for Y and read the comments of why to avoid or do Z, and you get an idea how XYZ will work against ABC [games are very much similar]. Then test it in PvE to measure how much you need to survive and/or maintain a good level of DPS).

In EvE, like in WoW, has roles and ships are designed for those roles. I like the Drake as it fits my play style of an agile tank and will specialize in it (or similar ships that is tanky, and by extension other tank like T2 ships, HIC and Logistics). CCP offers pure DPS boats and even rogue like ships. But it takes some time to figure what ship fits the player, as that ship defines their role and how they will fight.

And all takes experience.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2013-06-30 05:36:26 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Don't know about you guys, but isn't the reason why players skill up IS to fly the bigger and better ships? Running around novice plexes in T1 frigates, is like in WoW level 90s putting on level 10 gear and fighting. They'll still win due to level bonuses, just like in EvE with skill bonuses.


Then by all means buy a pvp focused character with perfect t1 frigate skills and see how well you'll do. It won't cost much since to get those skills you'll need 5-6 months training (tops). And for nearly perfect skills you'll need only a couple months. So go ahead try it. You can then come back complaining about how unfair is that "wasting" time training skills doesn't give you enough advantage over new pilots.


No name change service in EvE. Unless I can name my toon the way I want it, not sinking ISK in premade toons. It's a MMORPG, not a MMOFPS with faceless pointmen.

5-6 months isn't a newbie (well in EvE where it would take over 25 years to skill up completely it maybe) but timescale wise across all MMOs, that's a long time to be a newb.

It takes around 600 days of skill training to level 4-5 the core/defense/drone/ and weapons skills. Evemon shows it takes 132 days alone just for core skills (to fit the modules; power the ship; target and fly at max abilities). Core skills in other games is like maxing out your class or role skills, and a priority. Fitting rigs to power a ship is self-defeating. If you can't target further than 50m, it's self-defeating. If your shields/armor are but a wet paper bag, just die at the dock already.

I know what you guys are saying, but at the same time if you jump in too fast without enough skills you're either just going to be easy kills for others, or a carried. And even in WoW being a carried is looked down upon. EQII the same applies. DDO. RIFT. Because if you show up be ready to play your part. And that's what I'm getting at...be a full part of the team, not keep being carried. If you want to mentor fine, but most want you to be skilled enough to be good at what you do (and can fit the corps recommended fits. When my toon had 2mil SP he could not fit those fits, and it wasn't fun while everyone in their T2s can play, and you're but a liability...they have the skills to fly faster; hit harder and even salvage [an important skill out in null]).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell