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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

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Circumstantial Evidence
#821 - 2013-06-26 20:12:48 UTC
The warp tunnel was an annoying experience for a large group of players, until you gave us the option to turn off camera shake.

Taking over camera control is the most jarring part of gate jump. It shoves us into a first person perspective. Please find a method, perhaps optional, to make it more like the regular warp tunnel, centered on your ship, with no forced camera move needed.

I would rather complain about gate jump "CCP is out of ideas, their new gate jump looks just like the warp tunnel, with a different texture/shader."
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#822 - 2013-06-26 20:14:35 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



The warp tunnel isn't causing the vertigo (it's dark and hardly noticed anyway). It's the camera panning of the gate jump at the beginning that is doing it, as it forces the camera angle to change in a sharp fast and very focused manner. It's the speed of the turning that's sickening.


Exactly.

As I posted before, the camera spinning before you go into the tunnel seems like this:


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#823 - 2013-06-26 20:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
I'll also post this about polish: there's a problem with matching this animation with how our ships approach the gates in the first place.

When the ships can literally bounce in, around and on the gates, but all of the sudden you're hit with this gate entry that is focused and "correct" it doesn't add up (if the gate entry can be so centered, why can't the approach be the same?). That's a major mismatch.

Would be better to have it like a ship is loading into the dock (not a tennis net). It'll keep a forward looking camera angle (important in a PvP game to be centered and ready when jumping through gates); eliminate the bouncing ships effect and look appropriate, not ad hoc.

Added: think of the modern runways at airports and the magnetic and light tracking that is used to center planes on landing/takeoff (a feature added after some horrible aviation disasters).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#824 - 2013-06-26 20:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



When entering warp there is:
1) No swinging of the camera viewpoint that has not been directly commanded by the user.
2) No rapid zoom like effects that have not been commanded by the user.
3) No jerking motion

Motion-like visual cues without any other sort of feedback cause motion sickness. If I command the camera to move, the visual of it moving is far less of an issue. When it happens without my causing it or feeling it, it can be an issue. Its like you are far less likely to get car sick when you are driving than when you are a passenger.

So for the jump effect to not cause motion sickness it would:

Have to keep the same view direction and not change the visual size of my ship.
Not create much in the way of a camera zoom effect, like the stargate suddenly jumping at me or the star field quickly expanding right at the end.
Edit:

"But" you say "Those are sort of fundamental to the entire jump sequence. They really cannot be changed that much". I agree. Hence the need for an "off" switch.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#825 - 2013-06-26 20:47:14 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.


The lack of request for changes to the warp tunnel is probably related in part to the fact that there is no forced camera reorientation for warping.
Li Tiger
Deep Space Resources Ltd.
#826 - 2013-06-26 20:59:17 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
How do you get; "off option for the animation" to only cam movement?!? When I write animation, it's warp tunnel AND cam movement! I think you read it as you hope it is - I guess?

If there oddly enough can not be made an off option so I can live with this (without cam takeover):
Mr Pang wrote:
It's easy, leave the anmiation but make the screen fade into black, and then fade back into the game.

no vomiting capsuleers, and you still have your precious animation.. done
... but damn you'll get a bucket of poo from all the others from the other side of the "fence" If you are doing this!
But maybe it's not such a bad idea ... so there will be many from the other side who also want an option possibility Lol

As I read this (and many thanks for your updates) then I think it gets distant prospect with I come back to eve ... but I'm a born optimist so I still hope ... for a miracle! Straight
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#827 - 2013-06-26 21:07:12 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



The warp tunnel doesn't twists around your view. The ship keeps still and the warp tunnel "opens" and "moves" around it.

It would be cool that the interstellar warp tunnel opened exactly that way, "swallowing" your ship wherever it is (and preferably w/o zoom nor anyhting that drastically alters the view while your vestibular system didn't expect).

It's intriguing how an animation that causes motion sickness was greenlighted without anyone noticing that it would cause motion sickness for reasons that have been known for 70 years. Suffering/ignoring it for months to come is just standard CCP procedure, though.
Essack Leadae
State War Academy
Caldari State
#828 - 2013-06-26 21:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Essack Leadae
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



The same reasoning indeed, but not the same implementation.

In the warp tunnel, the camera is free, we are not in a first-person view (who is disturbing as the rest of the game is 3rd-person view only, CQ included), the camera shake effect can be disabled, the full speed and the brake moments are not instantaneous. So we can compensate by moving the camera far away and disable the shake moment if needed (I disabled it since day one, btw).

In the actual jump animation, we lost the control of the camera who do an annoying swing, we are in a first-person view who is unusual in this game, the full speed and stop moments are very brutal... but we can do nothing to compensate any of this annoyances, apart close our eyes or F10 at each jump...... If I could see the gate from a good distance and without the swing, I think it would make it acceptable.

Removing obsolete signature... You just lost time to read that =)
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#829 - 2013-06-26 21:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



My issue is that I'll see the jump animation and have some slight panic thinking that I'm lagged out because I thought I jumped, but it looks like I am still in the warp tunnel. This is aggavated when multi boxing when I'm not completely focusing on all my characters.

As far as a direct comparison
- I play fully zoomed out while in warp, and I almost always make sure I am looking sideways when in the warp tunnel, not straight into it
- it's less in your face, there's still the background (I always disable camera shake)
- Where you are looking isn't being changed on you
Illest Insurrectionist
Sparta.
#830 - 2013-06-26 22:18:47 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



I don't care about the warp tunnel. It is fine.

It is the sudden lets rotate the camera around at 908234880234 miles/hr that drives me nuts.
Velarra
#831 - 2013-06-26 22:31:13 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



The tunnel is absolutely fine. Any movement of the camera that is not strictly & specifically user controlled, triggers nausea. This doesn't show up as an issue on the 1st or 2nd jump. But go 10, 20, 30+ and the issue/effect adds up, becoming impossible to biologically adapt to (at least if you value regularly flying in space, jumping from system to system with a spaceship, in New Eden). Of course if you're a huge fan of CQ and can't get enough of it, or station trading, you're set.
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#832 - 2013-06-26 22:32:18 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.

Just sit and look at new jump tunnel for 2 hours. Then you won't be asking stupid questions.
Frake Lomes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#833 - 2013-06-26 22:44:59 UTC
Can we make the new jump effect more nauseating (sp?). I'm serious, I wanna hear more moaning and bitc...I mean puking about this new effect. It's massively funny. In fact, go to great lengths to make this new effect even projectile vomiting inducing. We can call it Puke-Gating.

+1 for more Nausea! (Because it doesn't affect me this way I guess Roll)
Tomba
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#834 - 2013-06-26 22:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomba
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



Exactly.

Putting aside the objective part where it causes nausea and the warp tunnel doesn't....


The warp effect is natural, it leaves you in control of the camera, it still looks like you are still in space just moving faster, it is seamless, it doesn't break immersion by putting on a random light and sound show. It doesn't stutter in the middle. There is no rollercoaster section at the start or the at the end and you don't have to press C or look away.

The warp effect is perfectly understated and really quite a classy little way to show we are on our way while letting us get on with playing the game.

The jump effect is trying too hard to impress when really it should be trying to do it's job and go away again without causing a fuss. Jumping is just a way to get to the next system, it doesn't need a fanfare as if we just completed a WoW quest or something.

Credit where it's due: Great to have some proper feedback, and I am hopeful this is on track now!
cheese monkey
Chilil-out
#835 - 2013-06-26 23:00:32 UTC
How is this still up for discussion?!

I alt tab out of game EVERYTIME i jump a gate. Why all the spinning. Why on EVERY gate... make it stop!

Please give us the choice CCP!!

The WH effect doesn't even do anything!!!

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
cheese monkey
Chilil-out
#836 - 2013-06-26 23:04:12 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



OMFG get a grip!

42 pages in and still defending to the last. Just adapt.

Cut your losses!

WH effect doen't do anything and the gate jumping is extremely OTT! Just make the animation for regional gates or just 0.0/low sec entrance gates. This makes it special and not irritating.

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#837 - 2013-06-26 23:12:23 UTC
Tomba, nice post. This was the reason for my question, as the jump tunnel should have a similar effect as the warp tunnel - give you a sense of rapid movement through the space between systems.
You should be able to chat etc while in jump. Scanning makes no sense as there is nothing to scan there, but that said the basic idea should be similar.

So all those things yeveryone has been saying "this is why we are not complaining about warp", those are the things we need to look at fixing ;)

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Maybelater Headache
Doomheim
#838 - 2013-06-26 23:16:33 UTC
Frake Lomes wrote:
Can we make the new jump effect more nauseating (sp?). I'm serious, I wanna hear more moaning and bitc...I mean puking about this new effect. It's massively funny. In fact, go to great lengths to make this new effect even projectile vomiting inducing. We can call it Puke-Gating.

+1 for more Nausea! (Because it doesn't affect me this way I guess Roll)


Brilliant. Idea
cheese monkey
Chilil-out
#839 - 2013-06-26 23:32:38 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Tomba, nice post. This was the reason for my question, as the jump tunnel should have a similar effect as the warp tunnel - give you a sense of rapid movement through the space between systems.
You should be able to chat etc while in jump. Scanning makes no sense as there is nothing to scan there, but that said the basic idea should be similar.

So all those things yeveryone has been saying "this is why we are not complaining about warp", those are the things we need to look at fixing ;)


You need us to answer that question???

"why aren't we complaining about the warp tunnel?"

For a start, that is some cheap logic. I suggest you get your money back! If we don't complain about Cloaking does that mean you aren't going to fix AF's ? Or how about if we don't comment on ship bumping... does that mean you won't fix captains quarters?

Leaving for a moment that the nature of warping around system hasn't really changed in the 10 years the game has been around, and that changing the jump animation and camera spin is a undeniably HUGE intrusive adjustment.... (I mean a slight graphic when you warp (that on most machines you can barely notice) is nothing compared to the jump gate ordeal!)

42 pages on this thread, countless other threads popping up nearly daily, complains on the FB page, twitter and other EVE fan sites, CONSTANT comments made in 'help' channel and even people suggesting that they play the game less because of it suggests that MAYBE you (the people taking the money) shouldn't be saying things like "there is no old system" but instead asking "what options the players might like?"

People now talking about vertigo... These are some MAJOR red flags. Sort it out! FFS we have even given you multiple viable options!!

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#840 - 2013-06-26 23:45:45 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Tomba, nice post. This was the reason for my question, as the jump tunnel should have a similar effect as the warp tunnel - give you a sense of rapid movement through the space between systems.
You should be able to chat etc while in jump. Scanning makes no sense as there is nothing to scan there, but that said the basic idea should be similar.

So all those things yeveryone has been saying "this is why we are not complaining about warp", those are the things we need to look at fixing ;)



When the jump sequence comes out is were I get nausea reaction. Going from black screen to lights with a zooming effects! Their also nothing with having the current jump sequence, if you could fix ending of the jump our allow us to have full cam control over the jump please! I think that's the biggest thing I don't like the fact I can't move my cam during the jump like you can during a warp sequence, but at this point I have to block the jump sequence at the end with opening market tab or something. What?