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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#801 - 2013-06-26 16:39:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.


For those requesting turning it off they wouldn't mind it. It's a compromise for the problems it causes (especially the vertigo it can produce). It's better than unsubbing, or the current "solution" of looking the other way (you know in a game that is knee deep with gate campers and designed to be gate camped?).

This is a clear example when form went over function. This isn't just a complaint over style, this is for legit medical reasons. You should never feel nauseated just hopping through a gate. No design is worth that grief.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Essack Leadae
Core Industry.
Fraternity.
#802 - 2013-06-26 16:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Essack Leadae
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
The only reason that this transition wasn't added in the past was due to technical limitations, and we decided to do it now due to the fact that part of the vision for EVE is to have a fully immersive experience that isn't interrupted by black screens with loading bars.

[...]

Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.


Hi, and thanks to keep looking on it. As I said, I had no big hopes on it but it seems that I will be wrong.

Still, you have to find a good balance between immersion and playability. Focusing to one only will impact the second one... And trying to find the tweaks who will make everyone happy is just impossible, because it don't exist. Each player is different, we don't have the same capacities or annoyances to deal with...

The classical warp sequence is the perfect exemple of what you should have done for the jump animation from the beginning. While warping, from the start until the ending, the camera is free and so permit us to balance any bad effect, and the parts of the warp who include the goddamn horrible camera shaking can be disabled by an option (and so, I disabled it). Even with this freedom and this option, the immersion is not broken.

You can try to tweak a few the jump animation, but it means that you still focus immersion on playability, and that is the bad way to go.

The best thing you can do, is to copy the logic used for the warp sequence : camera freedom and options. No need to remove the animation, just make it like the warp. I don't think that it is too difficult, and it is not like this would require to change anything in the detailed jump process that you wrote.

Removing obsolete signature... You just lost time to read that =)

Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#803 - 2013-06-26 16:54:45 UTC
The new jump animation NEEDS to go.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Sister Sophia
Doomheim
#804 - 2013-06-26 16:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sister Sophia
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight.


You guys are awesome. Attention

For my part, I really appreciate your detailed reply CCP Sisyphus. I'm also grateful for all the work that I'm sure will go into ironing out all of the jump details. I hope I speak for at least a few others when I say that the reason we kept posting is that we love this amazing game/simulation that you have created. No game is as complex or harsh as EVE and you deserve a lot of gratitude for that.

Many thanks. Looking forward to spending many hours lost in your world once again.Smile
Othran
Route One
#805 - 2013-06-26 17:33:44 UTC
Having done a reasonable number of jumps for the first time in a while I can only say :

a) the constant camera swing/zoom/etc is horrible;

b) the animation is boring.


Now I'm sorry if this is contrary to the master plan but for me this is fact.

I thought we'd got over forced cut-scenes every time we load a new map/system/whatever (pick your game), whcih is what this is but apparently not.

As an aside to people suffering from forced animation boredom - I've found that if you shift window + monitor focus then the animation finishes a lot faster.

It appears that CCP think its :awesome: and hence no deviation from the plan is allowed Roll
Alorae Cloudwalker
Cloudwalker Enterprises
#806 - 2013-06-26 17:47:11 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:


Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out...


Nope, its giving players that are requesting a VERY small feature to be added to compensate for the unwanted gate transition effects. A simple option to fade out - fade in would OPTIMAL. Don't look at giving players options as a cop-out.

That, in itself, is kind of a cop out... Did you guys learn NOTHING from the Incarna debacle?

Look, think about it this way... You could be the one to really get something done here. Instead of making up reasons why you shouldn't give players options, *YOU* could be the hero of the day, the go-to DEV for all our concerns because you're a go-getter and really enjoy receiving our feedback and providing support to a game world we all enjoy to inhabit...

Or, you could just give us more reasons why giving us options would be a cop out...?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#807 - 2013-06-26 18:00:55 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.


You are assuming there can be a optimal solution, that is its possible to have a gate jump animation which makes none of your players sick, not even one.

That most likely is not possible. I'm sure you can improve it, but make it so absolutely no one is effected? I doubt that can be done.

Which means you will be left with people asking for an off switch. Result: Either you lose those customers who get motion sick from it, or you install an off switch. I expect you will eventually be forced into the off switch option, so why not do it earlier rather than later?

P.S. it does not effect me at all, I just do not like the idea of people leaving eve due to an in-game visual effect.

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Mr Pang
Doomheim
#808 - 2013-06-26 18:13:18 UTC
It's easy, leave the anmiation but make the screen fade into black, and then fade back into the game.

no vomiting capsuleers, and you still have your precious animation.. done
Xilium
Raytheon Systems
#809 - 2013-06-26 18:22:48 UTC
Its laggy and worst than older. I think CCP must rework on it. What?
Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Horde
#810 - 2013-06-26 18:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Langbaobao
Well, I will not say that the new animation doesn't look nice from the esthetical standpoint, at least for the first 5 times you use it. After that it's just meh. However the first thing that I noticed when I tried it out was: 'wait, wtf I can't see who else on the gate is jumping together with me into the next system'. This was such an integral part of my spatial awareness habit that I felt extremely disoriented the first time. Got used to it, but still miss the intel I could get by watching what was actually happening on the gate while my session changed and I was beamed into the next system. That's the biggest issue I have with the new animation. I'll list below the rest of the things that are buggy or annoying:

- can't see what's happening on the gate as I'm waiting for the session change to go trough
- why does the POV zoom in on the gate when the jump is activated? It's extremely disorienting.
- same as before, why does the POV zoom on the ship when we appear on the other side of the gate?
- the tunnel often is bugged, showing not forward but to the side, also with graphical bugs
- 5 min tunnel with TIDI. ssssssllllooooowwwwwwwww.
- lag when multiboxing
- we want to see the gatefires!


Solution IMO:

Well, I think there should be an option to turn off the tunnel. It can be turned on by default for all the noobs, scrubs and fashion victims, but give the possibility to more experienced players to turn it off. When the tunnel is turned off in the options we don't need anything fancy, just show the exit gate and what's happening there so we can see if someone is landing on gate, jumping and so on. No zoom-ins or zoom-outs same zoom as when we jumped (the player should be able to zoom in our out manually). If you say that displaying the progress box is not doable again (which I doubt should be a problem to implement in some form or another) then just having the 'jumping' word flash over the capacitor until the jump is completed is enough (like with all commands that are given). When the jump is complete and we appear again in the new system, the zoom level should be the same as what it was when we left the previous system.

I think all of what I've mentioned above should not be difficult to implement, it would not require too much additional coding since all the elements are already present in the game itself. I think it's a sensible and straightforward proposal that would satisfy everyone: noobs, fashion victims and 0wners, as well as show that CCP cares.
Aldap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#811 - 2013-06-26 18:31:03 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out

What the heck are you talking about? What cop-out?
Adding the ability to turn it off, is hearing what your veteran players are asking of you, and showing consideration.
The animation hurts, its needs to be optional, its so clear and obvious... I really don't understand how you don't realize it.

An interesting article about Solo PvP: http://themittani.com/features/new-eden-solo

gabrial13
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#812 - 2013-06-26 18:43:43 UTC
I love the new animation , please do not change , that is all
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#813 - 2013-06-26 19:01:27 UTC
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#814 - 2013-06-26 19:04:39 UTC
Mr Pang wrote:
It's easy, leave the anmiation but make the screen fade into black, and then fade back into the game.

no vomiting capsuleers, and you still have your precious animation.. done


Pretty much this if an "off" button isn't allowed.

No one is fussing over the gate animation itself. It's the movement when entering it that is the problem. Remove the start of the entering the gate (and that isn't difficult that's just removing the frames of that part of the animation), and all's well. It's the jump movement that is sickening, not the animation.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Maybelater Headache
Doomheim
#815 - 2013-06-26 19:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Maybelater Headache
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



- the warp tunnel does not take away control of the camera
- the warp tunnel looks completely different, by far not as intrusive as that part of the gate jump i assume you are referring to.
- i don´t like the warp tunnel very much, i did never complain about it because it never affected me in a negative way.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#816 - 2013-06-26 19:33:46 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



The warp tunnel isn't causing the vertigo (it's dark and hardly noticed anyway). It's the camera panning of the gate jump at the beginning that is doing it, as it forces the camera angle to change in a sharp fast and very focused manner. It's the speed of the turning that's sickening.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Sister Sophia
Doomheim
#817 - 2013-06-26 19:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sister Sophia
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.


Good question.

I think the first-pass easy answer is that the jump tunnel effect starts by taking control of the camera and swinging it violently in an unexpected direction. It seems to me that that's the aspect of the whole thing that has drawn the most criticism. Secondly, the effect ends with a rather violent stop. Again, not very fun to watch.

The actual tardis tunel in both cases is pretty much fine (or so i think. maybe others disagree). In fact, the warp tunnel is quite nice since it's easy on the eyes and gives one a chance to check that one has overheated one's mods (or whatever) before hopping on top of one's target. It's like that last bit of calm before the storm. (Can't call the gate jump a moment of calm, can we?)

that's my take anyway. Smile
Alorae Cloudwalker
Cloudwalker Enterprises
#818 - 2013-06-26 19:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alorae Cloudwalker
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.




The regular warp tunnel is one thing... this animation isn't anything like that....
Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Horde
#819 - 2013-06-26 20:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Langbaobao
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.


Actually, if you look at my post (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3265465#post3265465) you will see that there are requests for an option to turn on or off the warp tunnel...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#820 - 2013-06-26 20:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ace Uoweme wrote:
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



The warp tunnel isn't causing the vertigo (it's dark and hardly noticed anyway). It's the camera panning of the gate jump at the beginning that is doing it, as it forces the camera angle to change in a sharp fast and very focused manner. It's the speed of the turning that's sickening.

I think that was his point actually, to get people to think about what the specific issues (differences) are, and then realize that those are the exact same points CCP is looking into fixing.

Camera swings abruptly, yes, needs some work and possibly the ability to retain camera control at least during the jump.

Tunnel speed, yes, could be causing some issues... and possibly the flashing.

One other thing that is different between the two effects is that a regular warp has a less abrupt launch and end... it's much more gradual. I doubt the same timing would work (it would take too long to get into and out of the tunnel) but something just a bit slower and smoother might make all the difference.

It would also be interesting if at some point in the accelleration/decelleration we had a glimpse of the current warp effect that almost immediately transitions into the darker, flashy Dr. Who effect... it would give the impression of greatly transcending traditional warp speeds. However, that might just needlessly compllcate things and might make the current issues worse... so take that with a grain of salt.

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