Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I will continue to use a mammoth, even if the hoarder is "better". I hated the hoarder when I was given it in the tutorial and stuck with my wreathe for a long time.

On the topic of cargo expanders and cargo rigs. There was a discussion a while ago (possibly several years at this point) of changing them from "useful for a couple ships" to "useful for all ships".

Rather than setting up all of these industrials with a ton of low slots, and insisting they be filled with cargo expanders, seems like a poor design. Change the cargo expanders and cargo rigs from +% bonuses to +m3 bonuses.

Cargo Expanders give about +100-150m3 of cargo space per module depending on meta (and possibly new ones that need more fitting, so they can only be easily fit to industrials?) and Cargo Rigs give +250S / 750M / 2000L / 10000C m3 of space per rig. You can set up any ship to get a useful increase in cargo space, at the cost of a module/rig slot.

Then, modify the industrials to have more of a flat cargo space 18000/19000/20000/21000 for the fast and 32000/33000/34000/35000 for the big. Just like the modifications to the mining barges, any ship who's design dictates what modules need to be fitted to an entire rack of mids, lows, and rigs, should be purged.

To avoid the Mammoth issue, why not just put both the Mammoth and the Hoarder with relatively similar stats?

If the superfluous hulls aren't really a concern, why not make them very similar.

Then Mammoth pilots like myself don't have to switch, and the Hoarder can be worthwhile as well so the art department doesn't have to be sad...

The "awkward bunch" of leftover industrials actually represents an opportunity for CCP to add something interesting to the hauling game.

Looking at the different racial lines of industrial, you have this breakdown.

• Amarr has the highest cargo capacity.
• Minmatar align quickly, move fastest and have the lowest sig radius.
• Caldari are inherently tankier. (Also leads to the best freighter.)
• Gallente are good all rounders, tending to be second in each stat.

So, play to the generalist lean for Gallente by making the Iteron II/III/IV into typed haulers. The models already look appropriate for the roles, too.

• Iteron II: Ore hauler.
• Iteron III: Gas hauler. Already looks like it has gas storage cylinders
• Iteron IV: Ice hauler. Short, bulky model looks like something that would be refrigerated.

If possible, give them all a small regular cargo bay (sub 1000m3), but a large specialized bay for their subtype, maybe something like 50,000m3 fully expanded. This lets those of us who trained Gallente still have a benefit for having done so, while opening up a better option for moving around specific cargo.


And for the Mammoth? Make it a Fast Hauler - give it a higher base velocity, but also give it a substantial bonus to warp speed, allowing you to move cargo faster across a long jump path. Make the cargo top out at about the same as the smaller t1 haulers.

Suddenly, those orphaned hulls have a place, and you no longer have to think about removing them. Thoughts?

When driving down the road you don't just see identical trucks, they are specialized for the cargo they carry. It's like the difference between a semi and a fuel tanker, imagine industrial ships of different color markings docking and undocking from Jita, a red stripped one, a blue, a yellow, all with specialized bonuses and bays to haul different kinds of products like the special edition PI ship was. 1) unrefined ore and repackaged ships 2)gas products, trade goods, and all miscellaneous items 3) salvage, ammunition, charges, fuel, and drones 4) refined minerals and PI goods 5) modules of all kinds for ships and structures including cap ship components. The bonuses could focus on their role or likely travel route. One gets a bonus to tractor beams for pre-Orca mining groups, another agility and hp for low sec, a third bonused for warp speed for high sec shipping.

The coloration would give pirates some idea of the cargo without needing to scan it which would be nice if there was a bonus to prolong the time it took a cargo scanner to run or blur the results. With specialized bays a ship could carry high value cargo in total but it would be more than a suicide ganker could loot without a ship of the same type standing by. Maybe one Indy could be made for Dust structures and equipment even.

Feel free to mix this up however, maybe large items like cap parts and POS crap should go in #1, but generally just an idea of what to do with all the Iterons and it'd give a chance for more expansion in the other races. Being a hauler as a profession would be pretty easy to develop upon, it just needs the depth that everyone else has from specialization and maybe some fancy contract revamping for ease and immersion.

Sorry if this post turns into a wall of text. Eve-gate on iPhone does that it seems. :(

Decent set of changes to this ship type rebalancing.


It looks like you are overlooking the prominent shield hp and midslot advantages that the Badger class will have. It has the worst capacity and align times, but the best tank. Nothing wrong with this racial distribution.

edit - and another vote for keeping the Mammoth as the high capacity Minmatar hauler, and making the hoarder the hybrid hauler.

Which explains a lot, really. Now I understand, why so many EVE ships looks so horribly. I generally don't like minmatar design, but Mammoth is nice looking ship for an industrial.

Btw I think you get those roles wrong. More cargo hold, more likely you get ganked even when hauling tech1 stuff or hisec ore. It really should be more like blockade runners vs. deep space transports, i.e. - one more agile with less cargo and less tank and vica versa. Unless getting people killed by suicide gankers is your intention, hm.

Homogenization is first word which came to my mind indeed, although Sigil and Bestower comes a bit on top of the others. Possibly together with basic Iteron because of agility.
Overall I'm really sad I trained gal ind V, but what can I do.. :(

What? No added missile launchers?

[/sarcasm]


Nice changes.

If you are keeping the 4 extras, How about a Badger Mk III and an additional Amarr industrial?
You could then 'rescale' the Amarr & Caldari lines with 3 models in mind.

Another idea (coupled w/the above idea) would be to drop one (two?) of the Iterons. I mean 5
iteron models is crazy overkill.


my 0.02 iskies

While I agree with this in theory, the reality is that the racial Industrial skills have minimal skill requirements. Any pilot can train to be in an Iteron Mk III, for example, in half a day or less. It's not like there are nested skills that make it difficult for a Caldari pilot to take advantage of an Iteron Mk III that filled some unique role.

EDIT: OH, DUH... And as another poster pointed out after me, the requirements for all of the industrials has been reduced to level 1. So having some ships that are specialized but only exist in one or two racial lines is fine since a "Gallente" pilot (whatever that means) doesn't have any advantage over any other pilot.

Chiming in to also generally bemoan the homogenization of the ships, request more specialist roles by race and ship, and embrace the diversity of races. It may not be ideal with other ship classes, but for industrials where the investment is small and the cultural focuses have been drastically different, it makes more sense.

Give each ship its OWN role and you will see more of each ship. I hate to see the ships become more alike, and make this more of a design decision than one of functionality.

Are you sure you just didn't get confused. Surely what the art dept said was, "if you want to get rid of one, get rrid of the Horder because it looks like it should be hauling garbage. Oh sorry, we misspoke. The Horder should be hauled AS garbage."

Seriously i skilled up to get the Mammoth just so I could go to the nicer parts of space and not be called a "sanitation engineer. "