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Suicide Ganking: coming to an end?

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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#321 - 2011-11-06 23:03:34 UTC
Changes the Charon cargo vally to +1 billion I guess. Hulks are still worth ganking cause a shield boosting one dies to two thrashers before concord kills them and tbh, who pays for insurance on anything smaller then a BS? Whats the ******* point? waste of good ammo money.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#322 - 2011-11-06 23:18:17 UTC
"Hey man, could you rep me real quick?"

"Sure!"

*shoots a can*

i am going to have so much ~fun~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#323 - 2011-11-06 23:20:22 UTC
Wow. All I ever see in these threads are "pvpers" whining about carebears, over and over again. Have a problem with corps escaping wardecs? Try deccing a pvp corp for once instead of a corp full of n00b miners. Have problem with getting insurance taken away for being concorded? Suicide gank anyways. It's not like it got any harder to do. If anything, it will be even easier due to the carebears feeling "safer" now.

Seriously listen to yourselves. A group that is always first to spout "adapt or die" should take their own advice for once.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#324 - 2011-11-06 23:22:09 UTC
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:
Wow. All I ever see in these threads are "pvpers" whining about carebears, over and over again. Have a problem with corps escaping wardecs? Try deccing a pvp corp for once instead of a corp full of n00b miners. Have problem with getting insurance taken away for being concorded? Suicide gank anyways. It's not like it got any harder to do. If anything, it will be even easier due to the carebears feeling "safer" now.

Seriously listen to yourselves. A group that is always first to spout "adapt or die" should take their own advice for once.


only the idiots are whining, the rest of us can't wait

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#325 - 2011-11-06 23:23:26 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
CONCORD will act the same,


And this is the problem. CONCORD is still massively buffed.

Suicide ganking has been nerfed over and over and over. This is just another in a long line of nerf intending to make highsec glorious carebear land.

Increase CONCORD's arrival timer by double, that should make up for it.
Belloche
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#326 - 2011-11-06 23:24:52 UTC
Andski wrote:
"Hey man, could you rep me real quick?"

"Sure!"

*shoots a can*

i am going to have so much ~fun~


If I remember correctly, this was fixed in a previous patch. If you are repping someone who then gets a GCC the remote repps automatically shuts down.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#327 - 2011-11-06 23:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Bacchanalian wrote:
Note to self: drop more isk into the corp wallet this year to fund our yearly Christmas suicide ganking campaign.

Won't change much, just shows CCP's consistent desire to protect carebears more and more and make highsec safer and safer. A shame to see them drifting away from the original intent of the game, but you can't really expect differently when they're trying to expand their player base and bring in the WoW types.

The carebear elation in the thread is kinda funny though. Think I'm gonna take some time off to gank miners in highsec just for the tears after this change goes through and ask miners think they're safer. :D


I think its funny how delusional you are, thinking there is carebears in here claiming they will now be safe. No one has said that. It is also amusing to watch you spout off with intentions to try and harvest tears after the change. You say it will change nothing, but say it is a step closer to WoW. I'm confused. One thing for sure that is that suicide ganking will no longer produce ISK out of thin air.

In the mean time...

/fills another cup of suicide gankers tears

mmmmmmmm....
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#328 - 2011-11-06 23:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So it finally happened. Oh well.

I am not afraid of this change as much as I am afraid of the precedent this change sets. I shudder to think what the bears will clamor for next, when they realize that their massive gamble did not affect the overall volume of suicide-ganking.

The removal of empire wars and the addition of a pvp flag can't be far behind.
That already happened with the policy change allowing dec shields and wardec shedding. Wardecs are 100% consensual these days.

So yes, if this turns out not to be a bug, it is indeed heading further down the wrong road…

Well, wars are still chugging along, but CCP is definitely treading the razor's edge. One more little nudge, and it will all come crashing down. Here, a little snippet from a mail I received very recently from one of our targets:

A Recent War Target wrote:
I would ask you to have your corp remove the dec as you will be wasting your money. I'd like you to look at this thread right here

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22792&p=4

CCP stated no longer an exploit.

So yeah. You can dec every 24 hours, and we jump into alliance and out every 24. Your call. Makes no matter to me. We are still recruiting noobs, and industrial types. I get it that your guy's idea of pvp is to station camp, and blow up noobs with 3 weeks in game and such but I am not feeding you kills to pad your battleclinic stat's. This isn't some learning experience and your not trying to help us.

Balls in your court. Drop the dec and you only lose the money once and can likely find some easy target who doesn't know a damn thing about metagmaing or how game mechanics work presently. Or keep the decs rolling and we just keep losing them. Your isk, your choice.


I can't help but wonder how this forest would fare if all the predators disappeared...


My 2 isk -
Empire wars and most empire pvp has largely been a consenusal affair for a considerable period of time. If wars are to be made viable, the target of the war has to feel that they have some stake in the fight. As long as the target of the war has nothing to lose then there is simply no reason for them to want to stay and fight. Pos are not the answer in this respect because they are too easy to take down before the war even begins. Personally, to make wars viable I think ccp needs to add a little piece of null sov to empire space. People need to be able to own stuff that they can lose during a war. Otherwise wars are going to be fail because the targets will not participate, i.e. switch, corps, dock up for the duration, etc... In this regard, the new ownership of the customs stations is a step in the right direction -- it should just not be limited to low/null -- bring it to at least all systems .7 and below so that there is something new to fight about in empire wars.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#329 - 2011-11-06 23:51:04 UTC
I think most of us define a 'carebear' as someone who engages in activity within EVE that has little or no risk attached to it. By that definition you'd have to say suicide ganking is probably the ultimate carebear activity. Removal of insurance helps, but suicide ganking is still pretty cheap.

Miners take a huge risk every time they undock their Hulks. Hisec is crawling with carebear suicide gankers.

But I'd be happy to see CONCORD removed. The idea that CONCORD can magically appear anywhere in empire and instantly catch and kill the 'baddies' is a bit far-fetched.

But it is also far-fetched that any 'baddy' can suicide gank an innocent ship quite cheaply and then magically get re-born, without suspension or gaol time, to go ahead and kill the next innocent ship.

Empire can be just as safe if we fix the above stupid game mechanics. Very few players are going to REGULARLY gank innocents if it means their character will be suspended (in some way) for a period of time - and then perhaps be 'shadowed' by the faction police when they're released on parole. :)

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#330 - 2011-11-06 23:54:12 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So it finally happened. Oh well.

I am not afraid of this change as much as I am afraid of the precedent this change sets. I shudder to think what the bears will clamor for next, when they realize that their massive gamble did not affect the overall volume of suicide-ganking.

The removal of empire wars and the addition of a pvp flag can't be far behind.
That already happened with the policy change allowing dec shields and wardec shedding. Wardecs are 100% consensual these days.

So yes, if this turns out not to be a bug, it is indeed heading further down the wrong road…

Well, wars are still chugging along, but CCP is definitely treading the razor's edge. One more little nudge, and it will all come crashing down. Here, a little snippet from a mail I received very recently from one of our targets:

A Recent War Target wrote:
I would ask you to have your corp remove the dec as you will be wasting your money. I'd like you to look at this thread right here

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22792&p=4

CCP stated no longer an exploit.

So yeah. You can dec every 24 hours, and we jump into alliance and out every 24. Your call. Makes no matter to me. We are still recruiting noobs, and industrial types. I get it that your guy's idea of pvp is to station camp, and blow up noobs with 3 weeks in game and such but I am not feeding you kills to pad your battleclinic stat's. This isn't some learning experience and your not trying to help us.

Balls in your court. Drop the dec and you only lose the money once and can likely find some easy target who doesn't know a damn thing about metagmaing or how game mechanics work presently. Or keep the decs rolling and we just keep losing them. Your isk, your choice.


I can't help but wonder how this forest would fare if all the predators disappeared...


My 2 isk -
Empire wars and most empire pvp has largely been a consenusal affair for a considerable period of time. If wars are to be made viable, the target of the war has to feel that they have some stake in the fight. As long as the target of the war has nothing to lose then there is simply no reason for them to want to stay and fight. Pos are not the answer in this respect because they are too easy to take down before the war even begins. Personally, to make wars viable I think ccp needs to add a little piece of null sov to empire space. People need to be able to own stuff that they can lose during a war. Otherwise wars are going to be fail because the targets will not participate, i.e. switch, corps, dock up for the duration, etc...

This. Precisely. The reason HiSeccers do not war is there is nothing to fight over. Changes in the mechanics of insurance or Concord (and tarded attempts to change their minds through ganking) do not affect this dynamic.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#331 - 2011-11-06 23:55:37 UTC
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
I think most of us define a 'carebear' as someone who engages in activity within EVE that has little or no risk attached to it. By that definition you'd have to say suicide ganking is probably the ultimate carebear activity. Removal of insurance helps, but suicide ganking is still pretty cheap.

Miners take a huge risk every time they undock their Hulks. Hisec is crawling with carebear suicide gankers.

But I'd be happy to see CONCORD removed. The idea that CONCORD can magically appear anywhere in empire and instantly catch and kill the 'baddies' is a bit far-fetched.

But it is also far-fetched that any 'baddy' can suicide gank an innocent ship quite cheaply and then magically get re-born, without suspension or gaol time, to go ahead and kill the next innocent ship.

Empire can be just as safe if we fix the above stupid game mechanics. Very few players are going to REGULARLY gank innocents if it means their character will be suspended (in some way) for a period of time - and then perhaps be 'shadowed' by the faction police when they're released on parole. :)


"high-sec is not intended to be safe"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2011-11-07 00:10:35 UTC
Smidsy Honest wrote:
I'm kinda expecting an increase in suicide ganks when the winter patch hits down. At least short term. I know a few people that are starting to stack up ready for a bit of "you thought this would stop it?" action.

I suspect this will be more a case of idiots having to prove they can still cause misery and grief to players so they can saciate their own sadistic desires. I am certain they'll ramp up their suicide ganks because they have some macho stuff to prove.

This is a small symbolic victory for miners (ie carebears) which means it's a huge kick in the nuts to the Schadenfreude bunch. In a sense their "tear-collecting" flow has been slightly reduced and they will make noise and cry lots of tears to make themselves heard and attention be paid. So yes, I expect misery to beget company.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#333 - 2011-11-07 00:17:22 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Smidsy Honest wrote:
I'm kinda expecting an increase in suicide ganks when the winter patch hits down. At least short term. I know a few people that are starting to stack up ready for a bit of "you thought this would stop it?" action.

I suspect this will be more a case of idiots having to prove they can still cause misery and grief to players so they can saciate their own sadistic desires. I am certain they'll ramp up their suicide ganks because they have some macho stuff to prove.

This is a small symbolic victory for miners (ie carebears) which means it's a huge kick in the nuts to the Schadenfreude bunch. In a sense their "tear-collecting" flow has been slightly reduced and they will make noise and cry lots of tears to make themselves heard and attention be paid. So yes, I expect misery to beget company.


wow...

man are you a bitter one.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#334 - 2011-11-07 00:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
baltec1 wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Smidsy Honest wrote:
I'm kinda expecting an increase in suicide ganks when the winter patch hits down. At least short term. I know a few people that are starting to stack up ready for a bit of "you thought this would stop it?" action.

I suspect this will be more a case of idiots having to prove they can still cause misery and grief to players so they can saciate their own sadistic desires. I am certain they'll ramp up their suicide ganks because they have some macho stuff to prove.

This is a small symbolic victory for miners (ie carebears) which means it's a huge kick in the nuts to the Schadenfreude bunch. In a sense their "tear-collecting" flow has been slightly reduced and they will make noise and cry lots of tears to make themselves heard and attention be paid. So yes, I expect misery to beget company.


wow...

man are you a bitter one.

Silly goon. You gank for the "lulz" dontcha? Grief play and misery make you happy, don't they? And you are planning to ramp up suicides, aren't you? Nothing bitter about these truths.

But I see what you are trying to do there P.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#335 - 2011-11-07 00:43:15 UTC
Shade Millith wrote:
Nalia White wrote:
CONCORD will act the same,


And this is the problem. CONCORD is still massively buffed.

Suicide ganking has been nerfed over and over and over. This is just another in a long line of nerf intending to make highsec glorious carebear land.

Increase CONCORD's arrival timer by double, that should make up for it.


Yet CCP DONT intend on doing that. See that thread about the twitter posts

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#336 - 2011-11-07 00:44:21 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

Silly goon. You gank for the "lulz" dontcha? Grief play and misery make you happy. And you are planning to ramp up suicides, aren't you? Nothing bitter about these truths.

But I see what you are trying to do P.


Nah I gank for isk, the tears are just a bonus. If ganks are going to go up them my investment in more thrasher and med neutron blaster BPOs will bring me even more profits. I may even get a retriever BPO in time for hulkageddonTwisted
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#337 - 2011-11-07 00:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:


My 2 isk -
Empire wars and most empire pvp has largely been a consenusal affair for a considerable period of time.


Yeah, all you had to do was dock up a while, if that got TOO long, you put on a long skill an played world of tanks or something for a few days. Not like wardecs ever were the end all be all of empire nonconsentual pvp lol. I never saw ppl qq about making docking up a exploit like they do about decshield

Andski wrote:
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
I think most of us define a 'carebear' as someone who engages in activity within EVE that has little or no risk attached to it. By that definition you'd have to say suicide ganking is probably the ultimate carebear activity. Removal of insurance helps, but suicide ganking is still pretty cheap.

Miners take a huge risk every time they undock their Hulks. Hisec is crawling with carebear suicide gankers.

But I'd be happy to see CONCORD removed. The idea that CONCORD can magically appear anywhere in empire and instantly catch and kill the 'baddies' is a bit far-fetched.

But it is also far-fetched that any 'baddy' can suicide gank an innocent ship quite cheaply and then magically get re-born, without suspension or gaol time, to go ahead and kill the next innocent ship.

Empire can be just as safe if we fix the above stupid game mechanics. Very few players are going to REGULARLY gank innocents if it means their character will be suspended (in some way) for a period of time - and then perhaps be 'shadowed' by the faction police when they're released on parole. :)


"high-sec is not intended to be safe"


apparently CCP disagrees now

Plus, you guys should be happy as hell, youre getting CCP to break the game FOR you like Goons have been trying to do like forever

"Grief play and misery make you happy."

lol find any definition of this in EVE

It basically doesnt exist

Unless you can flip in a starter system oooo then watch out. They put it in the EULA (or somesuch) an everything lol

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
#338 - 2011-11-07 00:53:50 UTC
Wow, holy threadnaught batman!

There one thing people seem to have forgotten though. Firstly, it's on the test server, ok. All that means is that they know they can do it. Secondly, CCP hasn't mentioned this at all. Not one word. So even though it's unlikely, this change may not go live.

Even so, I think it's pure irony that Ankhesentapemkah isn't here to see this.

Stop the spamming, not the scamming!
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#339 - 2011-11-07 00:58:26 UTC
Fille Balle wrote:
Wow, holy threadnaught batman!
.


wow THAT definition has fallen

18 pages is not a TN lol

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Gealla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2011-11-07 01:05:17 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
Cpt Fina wrote:
Terrible change.

CCPs dogma "No space is safe" is only true aslong as nobody is complaining about it on the forums.


High sec isn't completely safe.



Point is that CCP is willingly bending over and taking it in the rear when they constantly give in to the preassure from the playerbase and changes what is seen as truisms of the game.

What are principles good for if you abandom them when things get rough?

Eve online is a special, unique MMORPG to the enxtent that we the playerbase allows it to be... and that's bullshit.
What's next – instanced missions or PvP arenas. PvP flags maybe?


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.