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Suicide Ganking: coming to an end?

First post
Author
Jita Alt666
#281 - 2011-11-06 19:41:45 UTC
I'm predicting that it will take 2-3 weeks before players who seriously engage in ganking have adapted to to minimise their financial loses.

The first thing that comes to mind is that with concord payouts removed, it means a higher gank success to gank faliure ratio is needed, to either provide or financial return, or minimise loses to maintain enjoyment periods for longer. To ensure a higher successful ratio expect more concord baiting and more overkill ganking.
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#282 - 2011-11-06 19:45:06 UTC
I hope they add a smarter concord AI, they should never chase an Ibis.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#283 - 2011-11-06 19:45:33 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Removal of insurance payouts when a ship is destroyed by Concord is nothing but an appeasement scheme that a good number of miners are going to fall for.

It will change the amount of suicide ganks by exactly zero.

The only difference is the players who have been calling for this will now be lulled into a sense of "more security" in high-sec.

They have been under the perception that insurance payouts make some huge difference when it comes to someone taking out their Hulk, which is utter crap. Once you get into ships that are somewhere above newbie-ship, insurance payouts become unbalanced, and in the end you lose money on a gank, regardless of insurance.

Sure, it may pay a small amount back, but the people who do this aren't exactly newbs most of the time, and generally have an alt/corp/alliance with a bank full of isk to back them up.

It would be interesting to see just how many gank ships are even insured in the first place.

I disagree with Tippia here. This move makes high-sec less safe, just as she'd like to see.

Insurance payouts removed = false sense of security for carebears = easier targets.


unfortuneatly self destruction noobs still get insurance pay outs.

i tested it on the sisi server with a thanny.


Should be immediately ended!
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#284 - 2011-11-06 19:49:04 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The tears I like are those from the big alliances who know CCP is going to respond to them trying to rig things directly in favor of them vs the smaller alliances and corps.


This is a symbolic first step. The next needs to be to change the structure HP of mining craft by several orders of magnitude in order to stop the "Alpha before concord" crap. Make it many times more expensive to take down mining craft in hisec involving concord and the direct market manipulation will slow.


Supposedly CCP are going to "look at the CONCORD AI" to "tweak" them because theyre "too easy" and this "needs fixing" according to Hilmar via Twitter

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.

The F Word
Doomheim
#285 - 2011-11-06 19:56:01 UTC
This is a good change.

Empire does not NEED more PVP, it needs SMARTER PVP.

As it's been said ad nauseum, the majority of players stick to Empire space. These people enjoy the benefit of less risk, it's why they continue to play.

It may come as a surprise, but a lot of folks don't PVP. They don't want to PVP, and they avoid it - however this isn't to say they want it removed from the game - as without it there's no suspense.

This is a logical change - suicide ganks for the lulz will still occur, albeit with a little less frequency.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#286 - 2011-11-06 19:56:53 UTC
Institute in station ganks so market traders have to pvp too

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.

Michael Holmes Holmes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2011-11-06 20:03:22 UTC
Oh man! This is one of the best forum debates I have ever seen!

Okay, so first thing first.

Tippia, Nobody has the right to tell anybody how to play the game, I don't tell you to stop ganking so you don't get to tell me how to fit a ship. I don't get it, after all these years and we still punish new players for being new, way to keep a player base.

Second.

Expecting some sort of sanctioned payout for suicide ganking makes no sense in both reality and fiction, debating that it was some sort of incentive is grasping for straws, you don't get money from committing a crime in a game that has it's own system of law and order...wow, so unfair.

Keep the tears coming griefers, we don't have to blow up your ships to see you cry.
Phantom Slave
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#288 - 2011-11-06 20:07:15 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:
Phantom Slave wrote:
I'm in favor of this, but only for 1 thing. ISK Faucet is getting turned off. Now it might not be a huge amount, since its generally cheap ships being used, but it's just that much less ISK being created out of thin air.

I do feel bad for the suicide gankers who will have to work harder to find good targets of opportunity though. Best of luck to you all.


You wanna turn off the isk faucet? Get rid of missions, incirsuions, Ice and minerals oh and PVP


Ice and minerals aren't ISK faucets, as they don't create isk out of thin air.

Mmm, I love the smell of pod goo in the morning.

Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#289 - 2011-11-06 20:15:00 UTC
Phantom Slave wrote:
Richard Hammond II wrote:
Phantom Slave wrote:
I'm in favor of this, but only for 1 thing. ISK Faucet is getting turned off. Now it might not be a huge amount, since its generally cheap ships being used, but it's just that much less ISK being created out of thin air.

I do feel bad for the suicide gankers who will have to work harder to find good targets of opportunity though. Best of luck to you all.


You wanna turn off the isk faucet? Get rid of missions, incirsuions, Ice and minerals oh and PVP


Ice and minerals aren't ISK faucets, as they don't create isk out of thin air.


they dont? How you figure? Then Incursions and missions arent either.

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#290 - 2011-11-06 20:19:03 UTC
It is good that CCP gives message to all that Highsec will be secure again, after insurance nerf.

Now we can all run missions with officer fitted ships without fear.
Scalar Angulargf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#291 - 2011-11-06 20:22:00 UTC
The F Word wrote:
This is a good change.Empire does not NEED more PVP, it needs SMARTER PVP.


What?

Empire does need more PVP. Carebears need to HTFU and deal with it.

If you want a game where you're always safe, go back to STO or PVE WOW
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2011-11-06 20:23:28 UTC
Scalar Angulargf wrote:
The F Word wrote:
This is a good change.Empire does not NEED more PVP, it needs SMARTER PVP.


What?

Empire does need more PVP. Carebears need to HTFU and deal with it.

If you want a game where you're always safe, go back to STO or PVE WOW


And why do you care ?
Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
Sixth Empire
#293 - 2011-11-06 20:27:20 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:

HEYY YOU GUYYYSSS!!!!!
Scalar Angulargf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#294 - 2011-11-06 20:30:15 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Scalar Angulargf wrote:
The F Word wrote:
This is a good change.Empire does not NEED more PVP, it needs SMARTER PVP.


What?

Empire does need more PVP. Carebears need to HTFU and deal with it.

If you want a game where you're always safe, go back to STO or PVE WOW


And why do you care ?


Because at its core EVE is a PVP game.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2011-11-06 20:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Scalar Angulargf wrote:
Carebears need to HTFU and deal with it.
So that people like you don't have to.

Why don't you follow your own rhetoric for once?

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#296 - 2011-11-06 20:43:33 UTC
ITT: Suicide gankers QQ trying to convince people that it will be harder to suicide gank when in fact it requires the EXACT same firepower as it does now, just with a price tag.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2011-11-06 20:45:13 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
ITT: Suicide gankers QQ trying to convince people that it will be harder to suicide gank when in fact it requires the EXACT same firepower as it does now, just with a price tag.


Actually it would become easier ...

destroyers buffed / screw brutixes

gank tornado. /screw maelstroms/tempests
REDNECKMINING
Fidget Spinners in Space
#298 - 2011-11-06 20:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: REDNECKMINING
People are just going to have to change the way they gank... thats all.

Right now I pop Hulks with an Artillery apoc fit with t1 damage mods, cheap t1 named guns, and 3x t1 gardes. This will insta-pop a untanked hulk (or tanked mack) in any security space, on my gank character with CX-2 damage implant does 8719 volley.

Each gank costs 40m isk after insurance payouts, not including what I get from scooping the loot and salvaging the wreck and harvesting the tears.

So while a battleship may become to expensive to use to make it worth my time, stealth bombers will become a great new alternative.

A Purifier bomber costs about 17.3m isk
3x T2 ballistic controls cost about 2m isk
3x T2 Siege Missile Launchers cost about 7m isk

Using the 5% ZMT2000 implant this does almost 5000 volley damage. Overheated rate of fire is 6.44 seconds so in the lower-tier of highsec systems you should be able to get 2 volleys out and kill hulks.

In the high-tier highsec systems just use 2 characters to insta-pop them.

Total cost is 26.3m isk for that... cheaper than gank bs, easier to haul around, can fit 4000000 of them into an Orca... Will I still do this? ABSOLUTELY. It will just be a *little* bit more expensive to gank them in the really high security systems because you will need to use 2 characters. BUT STILL WORTH IT.
Aubepine Finfleur
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#299 - 2011-11-06 20:51:01 UTC
Scalar Angulargf wrote:

Empire does need more PVP. Carebears need to HTFU and deal with it.

If you want a game where you're always safe, go back to STO or PVE WOW


I can gatecamp in lowsec, run scams on a disposable character, and missions on a third one to have access to LPs stores and highsec markets. I can even gank from time to time with the 3rd one, since running missions keeps his sec status in the positive. And when some goody-two-shoes come to bust my camp, I just dock up waiting for them to go, refresh my scams and continue running missions. I just need three accounts, but between the gateganking, the scams and the missions, I have more than enough to buy plex with isk.

Why would I need to HTFU ? I risk nothing, and am always safe. What do you mean exactly ?

Remove Concord, make kill rights transferable, change gateguns mechanics (introduce tracking)

Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#300 - 2011-11-06 20:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
I think its a good move.

Immersion: Your actions has consequenses. You shouldnt get insurance if killed by police for your crimes. Want to be a bad boy? Sure, go right ahead. But dont expect the insurance company to give u a refund.

EVE needs to grow: Yeah yeah, higsec carebears needs to HTFU yada yada yada. But EVE needs more new players. EVE is unlike any other MMO out there. So, new players need time to adjust to the realities of EVE. Personally i used 6 months before accepting piracy, scamming etc as legit playstyles. Dont throw them into deep water immediately ffs. Most will drown.

ISK proliferation: EVE players are richer than ever before. More isk is coming in than flowing out. What was probably a good policy when EVE was brand new and players had to really consider if they could afford that Thorax, is completely invalid today. Removing a faucet only makes sense.