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Suicide Ganking: coming to an end?

First post
Author
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#341 - 2011-11-07 01:10:24 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:
apparently CCP disagrees now

Plus, you guys should be happy as hell, youre getting CCP to break the game FOR you like Goons have been trying to do like forever

"Grief play and misery make you happy."

lol find any definition of this in EVE

It basically doesnt exist

Unless you can flip in a starter system oooo then watch out. They put it in the EULA (or somesuch) an everything lol


you're dumb if you think this will curtail or do anything to limit suicide ganking

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#342 - 2011-11-07 01:10:37 UTC
Gealla wrote:


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.



Everyone that has chased after WOWs subs has failed. Every MMO that changed its makeup to go after WOW subs has collapsed.

EVE has done nothing but grow year on year so there is no need to change and go soft.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#343 - 2011-11-07 01:21:24 UTC
Andski wrote:
Richard Hammond II wrote:
apparently CCP disagrees now

Plus, you guys should be happy as hell, youre getting CCP to break the game FOR you like Goons have been trying to do like forever

"Grief play and misery make you happy."

lol find any definition of this in EVE

It basically doesnt exist

Unless you can flip in a starter system oooo then watch out. They put it in the EULA (or somesuch) an everything lol


you're dumb if you think this will curtail or do anything to limit suicide ganking


point to where I said that


oh wait you cant cause I didnt.....

swing and a miss

try again

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.

Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#344 - 2011-11-07 01:22:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gealla wrote:


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.



Everyone that has chased after WOWs subs has failed. Every MMO that changed its makeup to go after WOW subs has collapsed.

EVE has done nothing but grow year on year so there is no need to change and go soft.


Odd, Ive been reading articles as to how theyve been bleeding subs since cata... like 300,000-600,000 at a time

That in itself is kinda funny cause any other mmo loses that many subs an theyd straight die

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.

Gealla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2011-11-07 01:34:52 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gealla wrote:


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.



Everyone that has chased after WOWs subs has failed. Every MMO that changed its makeup to go after WOW subs has collapsed.

EVE has done nothing but grow year on year so there is no need to change and go soft.


Odd, Ive been reading articles as to how theyve been bleeding subs since cata... like 300,000-600,000 at a time

That in itself is kinda funny cause any other mmo loses that many subs an theyd straight die


Cata made the game harder, more of a grind fest again apparently, casuals left in droves - the new expansion they've previewed caters to the casuals again...tell you anything?

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but the writing's on the wall.... the player base dictated to CCP, Hilmar won't forget that and the easiest fix is to flood the game with hello kitty space captains.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#346 - 2011-11-07 01:57:35 UTC
One issue with Cata was "we want to make the upper end harder" - then they made the previous 80 levels so badly unbalanced that you could just zerg-rush entire dungeons and never stop. Get to 80, step into your first Cata dungeon, and get face-planted repeatedly because the older dungeons never taught you how to work as a team. Ooops...

(Combine that with the absolute cess-pool that was cross-server random dungeon groups and the constant money grabs in the form of trading card items or RMT items. No surprise that there are a lot of very ticked off long-time subscribers who said "enough is enough".)

Between the removal of insurance for ganks and the introduction of the glass cannon BCs, it will probably end up as a wash for the freighters, orcas and jump freighters of EVE in terms of "ganking for profit". The question will be "is Red Frog going to change their max collateral level?".

But it will do nothing for the T1 industrials or the mining barges and exhumers. Those are still easy prey for cheap destroyers, which cost so little that insurance isn't part of the "gank or do not gank" decision process.

And of course, the "for the lulz" gankers won't stop just because things got a bit more expensive. They're not in it for profit, they just want to watch the world burn.
K Suri
Doomheim
#347 - 2011-11-07 03:31:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gealla wrote:


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.



Everyone that has chased after WOWs subs has failed. Every MMO that changed its makeup to go after WOW subs has collapsed.

EVE has done nothing but grow year on year so there is no need to change and go soft.

goin' soft? you mean gankers have to htfu and stop cryin'?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#348 - 2011-11-07 03:36:16 UTC
K Suri wrote:

goin' soft? you mean gankers have to htfu and stop cryin'?

Who is crying?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Belloche
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#349 - 2011-11-07 03:43:33 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
K Suri wrote:

goin' soft? you mean gankers have to htfu and stop cryin'?

Who is crying?



Tippia, on almost every page so far.

Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#350 - 2011-11-07 04:04:48 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
They're not in it for profit, they just want to watch the world burn.


The Jokers of EVE

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#351 - 2011-11-07 04:10:36 UTC
Belloche wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
K Suri wrote:

goin' soft? you mean gankers have to htfu and stop cryin'?

Who is crying?



Tippia, on almost every page so far.


Tippia has been playing devil's advocate for the people saying that removing insurance is necessary but as far as I know he or she isn't even a suicide ganker. Based on what I've seen from these threads most gankers either don't care about the insurance or agree that it doesn't make sense that they get reimbursed when they get killed by concord. All the "tears" that certain posters keep smugging about seem to be imaginary.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#352 - 2011-11-07 04:13:47 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
... All the "tears" that certain posters keep smugging about seem to be imaginary.


Oh go on, pretend to be upset at least. People will like you for some signs of humanity. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Letrange
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#353 - 2011-11-07 04:30:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gealla wrote:


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.



Everyone that has chased after WOWs subs has failed. Every MMO that changed its makeup to go after WOW subs has collapsed.

EVE has done nothing but grow year on year so there is no need to change and go soft.

um... That's just the point - eve shrank like 8%. The constant griefing suicide ganking in high sec allows is what stops people from trying EVE out and gets them to quit withing the first 3 months. EVE has a VERY BAD newbie retention rate. It used to have a good veteran retention rate (which is what allowed it to grow) but ****** that up recently. CCP is now highly motivated to:
a) fix outstanding issues to appease the long term player.
b) get newbies to stick around.
Hence what's going on.
K Suri
Doomheim
#354 - 2011-11-07 04:38:34 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
... All the "tears" that certain posters keep smugging about seem to be imaginary.


Oh go on, pretend to be upset at least. People will like you for some signs of humanity. Blink

Oh go on, pretend to be smart at least. She's a Goon.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#355 - 2011-11-07 04:40:20 UTC
K Suri wrote:

Oh go on, pretend to be smart at least. She's a Goon.


"She"? *Arches eyebrow.* "It" you mean? P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Naari Talvanis
Doomheim
#356 - 2011-11-07 04:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Naari Talvanis
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
The cheap ride for highsec ganks is coming to and end, like it should have 7 years ago.
Why should it?


Honestly, alot of your posts have some sense of logic to it and contain actuall arguments, but c'mon..
It's quite logical why this should end.. everybody knows it.. it's just a matter of which side you belong to.

Highsec was designed as the area's for casual players, industrialists, new players, etc, etc.
Nobody says it has to be 100% safe, but there should be safety to some degree. At the very least it should not be easy and relatively effortless to destroy what players not as far into the game as yourself, new guys or casual players have worked very long to attain.
Cause that's what it is.. easy. Nearly NO skill involved in hanging around a gate while being untouchable and blowing up random stuff that comes through... without a realistic option for your target to defend.
It would be different if while you were (essentially) pirating and preying in a highsec system you were actively hunted by faction navies and actually had to do stuff. Like avoiding patrols, attacking faction navy outposts etc. (increase penalty for criminal behaviour in highsec!)
But just hanging around unchallenged untill you can blow something up..? Kinda cheap way of play, and can hardly be described as PvP.
You want more pew, move to low or 0.0. Think the rewards in highsec are too high and people shouldn't be safe there?
Buff low and 0.0 and give people a reason to go there, like it used to be.

Ofcourse ganking should still be possible, but only if there are genuine motivationspowering the effort such as;

-Extremely valuable loot in 1 fragile ship.
-Wanting to hurt a certain corporation that you've been clashing with, either in highsec or outside of highsec. (improve wardec mechanics.)
-Wanting to be a dangerous enough group of pirates to actually fight your way into protected empire territories and organise raids there. (People can actually anticipate and defend against that. )
-Wanting revenge bad enough for some reason.

The last bringing me to the type of players who want the act of suicide ganking to be as easy as it is. I'm really unable to believe that gankers actually believe there is some art to ganking when it's this easy. It's more probable that in reality they're people who get crapped on alot in daily life and find the ability to lash out against others online in a way they can't otherwise. Poorly.

To a degree that's fine I guess, as it's a game and everyone should play it like they want. Be the ******* they aren't in RL.
But there should be some rules..
If you don't think so, I wonder how you'd like to live in a country where 10 people armed with clubs can stand around your house waiting for you to come out and violently rob you if you've got something valuable on you. Calling the police is no use since they haven't technically robbed you yet, (they did so a number of times in the past though) and when the police come they'll take the guys to a shop where they buy them new clubs (fracturing your skull takes it's toll on clubs you know) and release them again.
After which the police will tell you they feel sorry for you, but that you should really make sure you park the car right next to your frontdoor next time, have a friend be on the lookout for the thugs and wear a medieval suit of armor to the office.
"Don't worry though Sir, if they do it 2 more times this week they'll get a slap on the wrist, and can't come near your house again untill they've done 12 hours of community service work, removing graffity from neighbourhood walls."Pirate

Doesn't sound like fun does it? So why would I want to, in my free recreation time, play a game that simulates that unless I become one of the thugs?

It's (defending) a mentality like this that puts alot of people who'd potentially like to play EvE off..
You could say they shouldn't play then, but you could also say this is what keeps a lot of potential new players, targets, contributors and subscription money that can be used to our benefit away.

EvE being a dark and cold game and place to live is not the same as it being a madhouse.
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#357 - 2011-11-07 04:54:18 UTC
Letrange wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gealla wrote:


Probably, if CCP's goal is to increase the eve playerbase numbers to the point where it once again afford to diversify into other title production, so all of thier eggs aren't in the same proverbial basket, then catering to the casual masses is the only way to go.

Wow may not be hard core sandbox like eve, but it has over 11million paying subs....something ccp is sure to have noticed. The cold hard business facts are, cater to the majority if you want to make money, the minority will either adapt or find something else.

Having there business direction dictated to them by a bunch of online gamers who suddenly decided to unsub etc due to incarna will have, if nothing else, opened their eyes to the pitfalls of catering to the minority..

tldr - Eve will go casual, so ccp can grow.



Everyone that has chased after WOWs subs has failed. Every MMO that changed its makeup to go after WOW subs has collapsed.

EVE has done nothing but grow year on year so there is no need to change and go soft.

um... That's just the point - eve shrank like 8%. The constant griefing suicide ganking in high sec allows is what stops people from trying EVE out and gets them to quit withing the first 3 months. EVE has a VERY BAD newbie retention rate. It used to have a good veteran retention rate (which is what allowed it to grow) but ****** that up recently. CCP is now highly motivated to:
a) fix outstanding issues to appease the long term player.
b) get newbies to stick around.
Hence what's going on.


c) Get newbies that don't suck and that intend to do something else with EVE's unlimited potential than shoot lasers at rocks eternally to make space cash.

And that's coming from someone with levels in astrogeology.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

yumike
Doomheim
#358 - 2011-11-07 04:58:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
yumike wrote:
You don't suicide gank much do you?
I don't suicide gank at all, so no, not much…


Well then, let me assure you - suicide ganking is fine and frankly needed this.

I will continue to do it when I feel like sitting at a gate waiting for something juicy enough to gank as i've been 5.1 sec status for way too long now, The only thing this change will effect is the lulzy suicide ganking. (And with the destroyer buffs incoming, there is room for arguement there)
Sub ten mil isk to pop exhumers? Even lulzy ganking will do just fine.
Profitable ganking is going nowhere.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#359 - 2011-11-07 05:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Belloche wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Who is crying?
Tippia, on almost every page so far.
Lol Humour. Also, no.

So, who is crying?
yumike wrote:
Well then, let me assure you - suicide ganking is fine and frankly needed this.
How so? Why do they need this? Because it will give people an even more false sense of security?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#360 - 2011-11-07 05:06:54 UTC
Naari Talvanis wrote:
Highsec was designed as the area's for casual players, industrialists, new players, etc, etc.
Debatable… and even if it were, why does that mean that cheap ganks should have come to an end 7 years ago?
Quote:
At the very least it should not be easy and relatively effortless to destroy what players not as far into the game as yourself, new guys or casual players have worked very long to attain.
Why not? Everything should be relatively effortless to destroy, or it will stifle demand.
Quote:
But just hanging around unchallenged untill you can blow something up..? Kinda cheap way of play, and can hardly be described as PvP.
It most certainly is PvP — it's another player that gets blown up after all. It just isn't fair, but that is kind of the whole point of doing it (and very much in line with how the game works in general). Moreover, if you can “just hang around unchallenged“, then a fair amount of work has gone into that, so the cheapness isn't really there.
Quote:
Think the rewards in highsec are too high and people shouldn't be safe there?
Buff low and 0.0 and give people a reason to go there, like it used to be.
That's a particularly bad solution for an economy that is already out of whack. Nerfs are often a far better solution than buffs, and people need to stop being so afraid of them.
Quote:
I'm really unable to believe that gankers actually believe there is some art to ganking when it's this easy.
If it is as easy as that, how come people are so utterly unable to uphold the consequences of ganking, in especially since it's made even easier by not even having to take CONCORD into consideration when doing so?