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IS boxer Software and it's legality under the EULA

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Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2013-05-25 00:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Kyt Thrace wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
KasparHauser wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
Multiboxing is valid gameplay.



Absolutely, but it can be done without 3rd party software.


But why would you want to do that? If multiboxing is valid gameplay, then why limit yourself with how you can multibox?

Managing skill plans is a bit tedious and a lot of players use EveMon to manage their skills. Do you also have a problem with EveMon?

Managing skills is valid gameplay.

Keeping track of a bunch of players is difficult so a lot of people use sites such as evewho.com. Do you have a problem with people who use evewho.com?

Keeping track of other players is valid gameplay.

Keeping track of market prices is difficult so a lot of people use market web sites to get market information. Do you have a problem with market web sites?

Watching market prices is valid gameplay.

The in game map doesn't have all the information people would like it to have so they use sites such as dotlan. Do you have a problem with dotlan?

Looking at the map is valid gameplay.

Managing ship fitting is difficult so a lot of people use ship fitting software such as EFT? Do you have a problem with 3rd party ship fitting tools?

Managing ship fittings if valid gameplay.

I think the real problem here is you want multiboxing to be hard because you just don't like multiboxing. Well you are entitled to your opinion, but I will state it again:

Multiboxing is valid gameplay.


Evemon, Dotlan, Eve Central, EFT, and others are Third party apps which CCP stated is against the EULA. Now CCP also stated that they are only going after people using 3rd party Apps that give them an unfair advantage in the game. That said, like CCP has stated over & over, use all those third party apps AT YOUR OWN RISK.

So your point of valid gameplay is wrong. You choose to play the game using those tools, then you choose to take the risk of being banned because you are breaking the EULA technically.


CCP retracted that dumb "evemon might be technically against our policies so don't tell us you use it or we might ban you" thing.


e: It just occurred to me that you came to this conclusion from that thing the GM posted in this thread and not that one dumb misstatement in that dev blog that everyone got all mad about.

FCON is terrible. News at 11.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#202 - 2013-05-25 00:49:25 UTC
this is another case of "if I can't do it why should anybody else"

answer to your problem... get a job... buy more accounts...

and pay for isboxer OR learn how to use your G keyboard that cost double that of ISBOXER

***(or program it on your own - its really easy, if you have the time)

OMG Lax is gonna make mint off this thread.

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2013-05-25 00:54:48 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:


So… if you admit to being wrong (since your answer as been proven wrong) why do you keep harping on with this counterfactual nonsense?


Is this in regards to you saying on one hand the human did it, and the other saying it was DirectX built in?

Because I find it hard to believe that if I do not have isboxer, and have both my accounts logged in on same computer, and hit F1 on one account, I have to manually alt tab (you know, use human input) to hit F1 on my other account, as opposed to having ISBoxer (a program), do that exact same action for me, without my human input, on, that, account.

If I am not alt tabbing to that other account, and a program is in fact doing those inputs for me.... where is my input on that account?

No. I do not admit I'm wrong. I do not see where your human input comes from in regards to the second account. I do not see where directx is doing it for me either.


(Disclaimer- just using isboxer does not fully allow these actions to happen, but it is the gateway into using Synergy, key broadcasters and other software meant to emulate the actions of a single user).


You need a new (and better) trolling gimmick.

fakeedit: I guess it's working though so vOv

Baldour Ngarr wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

But, if I take one account, and perform a serial replication of commands to gather the same 30 ore holds of ice, that's botting.


How is the replication of commands going to keep you in range if you get bumped?



The keep at range command.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2013-05-25 00:58:17 UTC
Personally I think it's time we banned evemon and EFT. We've let people get away with using automated tools to do fitting and skill planning math for them for far too long. Evemon even tells you when to log in to change your skills, are you kidding me?
Or is CCP fine with catering to people who can't be bothered to do the math/ingame fitting themselves?
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#205 - 2013-05-25 01:20:02 UTC
CCP Obvciously isn't going to change their stance on this program. All you're doing here is beating this subject to death with a spoon and giving more publicity to the program. I learned about ISBoxer for the first time in one of these threads and started using it. Just let it go.
dark heartt
#206 - 2013-05-25 01:52:36 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Personally I think it's time we banned evemon and EFT. We've let people get away with using automated tools to do fitting and skill planning math for them for far too long. Evemon even tells you when to log in to change your skills, are you kidding me?
Or is CCP fine with catering to people who can't be bothered to do the math/ingame fitting themselves?


And those people who use Eve-Central should be banned for using out of game tools to maximise profits, thus gaining things faster than usual.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#207 - 2013-05-25 04:19:52 UTC
How the individual interprets the EULA is irrelevant since the EULA is deliberately worded vaguely to cover unexpected situations and give CCP the leeway they need to maintain the integrity of the game. For example, if I use ISBoxer and it causes problems with my game client and I create a petition, the GM responding to the ticket can simply state that the EULA excludes them from any obligation to provide support for ISBoxer users and suggest that I seek help from the developers.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#208 - 2013-05-25 05:07:16 UTC
Gurrrr Yotosala wrote:
I'll just add my 2 scents in this conversation. I've been playing games for a very long time and this is a conversation which seems to come back every few years.

I define a macro as any button or keybind which allows you do do multiples actions at once. This definition is somewhat broad and it should be. In the right hands, macros are extremely powerful tools.

Propagating a command most certainly fall within the scope of this definition. For me, denying this is playing on words. Right now, in Québec, we have a commission inquiring on collusion. For me, it's the same exact thing, peoples denying the obvious truth and trying to rephrase it so that they can keep going with their everyday business. You can say it however you want, IS Boxer is a form of macroing.

And before you go asking, I do have 2 accounts. It does require quite a bit more micromanagement to run even 2 accounts without using IS Boxer. I don't think that a single player could reasonably manage more then 2 or 3 accounts without a program like IS Boxer. Beyond that, macros are almost without question required.


Yeah, but you're using you OWN rule to interpret CCP's rule.

"If it were up to me captain, you'd never fly a ship again"

"Then I am thankful that it is not".

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#209 - 2013-05-25 05:17:15 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Personally I think it's time we banned evemon and EFT. We've let people get away with using automated tools to do fitting and skill planning math for them for far too long. Evemon even tells you when to log in to change your skills, are you kidding me?
Or is CCP fine with catering to people who can't be bothered to do the math/ingame fitting themselves?


And those people who use Eve-Central should be banned for using out of game tools to maximise profits, thus gaining things faster than usual.


Normal people have at least a bluebelt in google-fu, so this is largely irrelevant. But i like your sarcasm.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2013-05-25 13:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:


So… if you admit to being wrong (since your answer as been proven wrong) why do you keep harping on with this counterfactual nonsense?


Is this in regards to you saying on one hand the human did it, and the other saying it was DirectX built in?

Because I find it hard to believe that if I do not have isboxer, and have both my accounts logged in on same computer, and hit F1 on one account, I have to manually alt tab (you know, use human input) to hit F1 on my other account, as opposed to having ISBoxer (a program), do that exact same action for me, without my human input, on, that, account.

If I am not alt tabbing to that other account, and a program is in fact doing those inputs for me.... where is my input on that account?

No. I do not admit I'm wrong. I do not see where your human input comes from in regards to the second account. I do not see where directx is doing it for me either.


(Disclaimer- just using isboxer does not fully allow these actions to happen, but it is the gateway into using Synergy, key broadcasters and other software meant to emulate the actions of a single user).


You need a new (and better) trolling gimmick.

fakeedit: I guess it's working though so vOv

Baldour Ngarr wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

But, if I take one account, and perform a serial replication of commands to gather the same 30 ore holds of ice, that's botting.


How is the replication of commands going to keep you in range if you get bumped?



The keep at range command.



People do not know how to control themselves and wish to blow their stack as a kneejerk reaction. Sometimes you need to make sure the sheep are reigned in.

Call me the border collie of GD!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2013-05-25 13:53:35 UTC
Alexila Quant wrote:
CCP Obvciously isn't going to change their stance on this program. All you're doing here is beating this subject to death with a spoon and giving more publicity to the program. I learned about ISBoxer for the first time in one of these threads and started using it. Just let it go.



Did you not read their rulings? Of course they are going to change their stance. They have said so multiple times they reserve the right to do exactly that.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2013-05-25 13:54:33 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Personally I think it's time we banned evemon and EFT. We've let people get away with using automated tools to do fitting and skill planning math for them for far too long. Evemon even tells you when to log in to change your skills, are you kidding me?
Or is CCP fine with catering to people who can't be bothered to do the math/ingame fitting themselves?



Oldschool theorycrafting ftw! (which I prefer). Make it harsh again. Let people fend for themselves says I.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#213 - 2013-05-25 19:24:09 UTC
not multiboxing, botting, freighter bowling, alliance heists etc., can break the game like UNINTERESTING CONTENT

this includes boring bloated pointless threads like this one. STOP wasting people's time.

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Kewso
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#214 - 2013-05-25 19:33:52 UTC
Well I sure wouldn't spend any money on IsBoxer

I found a copy on torrent though and using it.

Why should I pay extra to be on even footing with eve players? I pay for eve same as they do :)

so just torrent isboxer, it's quicker and easier and don't bother giving money or your info to 3rd party companies :P

much simpler
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#215 - 2013-05-25 21:04:50 UTC
I can't believe that mineral prices stay as high as they do with all these macro fleets around. I wonder what trit would be without them.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#216 - 2013-05-25 21:33:29 UTC
Kewso wrote:
Well I sure wouldn't spend any money on IsBoxer

I found a copy on torrent though and using it.

Why should I pay extra to be on even footing with eve players? I pay for eve same as they do :)

so just torrent isboxer, it's quicker and easier and don't bother giving money or your info to 3rd party companies :P

much simpler


it's all relative you scrub, why tip the valet $50 at the Bellagio to keep my Buagatti at the front door all night when I can just self park it for free with all the other heaps of trash...

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions
HORSE-KILLERS
#217 - 2013-05-25 21:54:28 UTC
lets be honest, the main problem with isboxer is not the isboxer functionality, its isboxer being based on innerspace.
innerspace is a game-"hacking" engine, which is build itself with the purpose of botting and macroing in mind. The business model of lavish software is to sell you innerspace, and give you the botting scripts for quite a few games for free.
some gaming companies ban you for the use of innerspace (and by using isboxer you are using innerspace) some don't.

Personally i believe that everyone using innerspace (or isboxer) is only one click away from botting, and by that he shouldn't be allowed to do so.

this is not a statement against multiboxing, its my opinion on lavish softwares products.

3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#218 - 2013-05-25 23:40:43 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
It's pretty simple.

Replication is copying, repeating, right?

Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right?
…and ISBoxer does not offer the latter. You still have to do the work. It doesn't automate anything.

So yes, very very simple.

Quote:
Sooo using your words, replicating via isboxer WOULD be automation
…if it did away with the human input, which it doesn't. So it isn't. This explains why it's been explicitly allowed for ages by CCP — you know, the final arbiters of the CCP EULA?

Ellen Thrace wrote:
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore,
even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.
Eh, no. There is no “therefore” about it.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa), but we can't determine one from the other.
In this case, since it still requires human input to do anything, it isn't automation — it's just replication.



Hit F1, fire gun. Hit F1 again, fire gun again. Replication.

Hit F1 once. Gun fires on 20 accounts at once. 19 accounts were automated with 0 human input. 1 account had human input. Automation on 19 accounts, replicated from 1 account.

Very very simple.


I'll bet Murk paradox never uses autopeat on any guns!!!!

Cool
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2013-05-26 00:02:10 UTC
Peter Powers wrote:

Personally i believe that everyone using innerspace (or isboxer) is only one click away from botting, and by that he shouldn't be allowed to do so.


That must have sounded better in your head before you typed it. I mean you can't really believe in an ideal as bad as that can you?

I have a medicine cabinet full of cough medicine and a bunch of other chemicals in my workshop, sure I could cook up a batch of crystal meth, but just having the stuff doesn't give the local narc squad a reason to bust down my door and arrest me.

Now that's not to say they don't have a responsibility to come knocking if someone reports a suspicious smell coming from my back yard. In that case it's their duty to come check me out and I can then show them the pile of rotten eggs that's on my compost pile.

Going back to the post I made earlier, if you come across something you think is suspicious then petition it and let CCP handle it.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#220 - 2013-05-26 00:26:22 UTC
Peter Powers wrote:
lPersonally i believe that everyone using innerspace (or isboxer) is only one click away from botting


Using the botting functionality is bannable, that is why CCP does not fully condone the programs usage. In short, it's ok to use until you start botting.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.