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IS boxer Software and it's legality under the EULA

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Author
GreenSeed
#221 - 2013-05-26 01:25:55 UTC
Peter Powers wrote:
lets be honest, the main problem with isboxer is not the isboxer functionality, its isboxer being based on innerspace.
innerspace is a game-"hacking" engine, which is build itself with the purpose of botting and macroing in mind. The business model of lavish software is to sell you innerspace, and give you the botting scripts for quite a few games for free.
some gaming companies ban you for the use of innerspace (and by using isboxer you are using innerspace) some don't.

Personally i believe that everyone using innerspace (or isboxer) is only one click away from botting, and by that he shouldn't be allowed to do so.

this is not a statement against multiboxing, its my opinion on lavish softwares products.

you have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about.

this may surprise you, but isboxer is not used to multibox at all. Lol

its actually just used to write configuration files, that are then exported to innerspace. every time blizzard or CCP asks for the software for review its inner space the software that's sent for review, not isboxer.

also, inner space will return an error if you send a command that is self referencing. (generating a loop) that means that it is impossible to automate any task with the software, even simple keystroke chains. Lol for example, you cant make a command that would do "when A is pressed -> send keys h-e-l-l-o-A -> start over because A has been pressed". Blink

and yes, the program checks iterations too... so there's no way around that. this system was implemented by request from blizzard to prevent any sort of automation, even something as crude as a chat spam macro. but honestly, this doesn't matter since eve is not controlled via keystrokes like WoW is.

and when it comes to the mouse, innerspace cannot simulate mouse movement. it can only broadcast actual movement made by the user. if you attempt to simulate mouse movement it will wait for a keyboard input and it will jump from coordinate to coordinate, directly telling the software that's being used (the eve client) that the mouse cursor has a new set of coordinates assigned as the result of a keyboard action. (people with disabilities use this alot.) as an example think of something like this " press key A -> reposition mouse on pos: 39,73" but since you cant automate anything due to the inability to generate loops, its useless. even to make a mouse click you have to press a keyboard key. oh, and even Windows has a built in mouse control for disabled users more powerful. Cry

bots must have some form of feedback from the game to know when certain events have happened, or to interact with the game automatically. most bots use some form of crude OCR, to recognize colors on certain areas of the game screen and this way see if "ship docked" or "ship in space". the more advanced bots scan the ram looking for information such as overview contents, local system information, etc. both of this forms of "interaction" with the game clients are strictly forbidden by 100% of the EULAS out there.

inner space has no OCR, meaning the software does not know whats happening in each game window. it doesn't know what colors are being displayed, and since you cant make loops to automate actions, there's no point in even having the capability to "know" whats happening in the client. aannnddd. innerspace cannot modify keystrokes or any form of interaction based on ANY source of data, not just the game client. that means you cant make something that will do X if certain conditions are met or else do Y. you cant automate anything.

its simple. innerspace or isboxer as a whole package, has no form of logic. you cant do conditionals like ifs, it simply broadcasts keystrokes and mouse interactions. you cant create conditionals, unless you are using the wow macro system... which requires the wow client to be running. so, unless you can get EVE to run on the wow client and get blizzard to parse the macros for you (which the wow client does since v2.4) i guess you are outta luck. Blink AND seeing as you cant generate loops...

please explain to me how the living *@(% can anyone bot with isboxer, innerspace, or any other multiboxing application. please, do.

the mistake people like you always make is thinking that "multiboxing" products are paid because they do something other software doesn't do. that's a lie. people pay for multiboxing software strictly because the software adheres to a set of rules that are set by the EULAs of the games. in short, people pay for featureless product, because those self imposed limitations make multiboxing "legal".

to give you an idea of how limited isboxer is, google "Autohotkey". its a freeware open source software mainly used to automate software installation and repetitive interactions with software, from spreadsheets to text editors. i use it in my work everyday, its robust enough to be used on a multinational bank (*cough* Chase *cough*) and everyday it completes millions of interactions with literally hundreds of thousands of desktops across the planet. yeah, those are simple enough, like "run program in background" "hide x process, send keystrokes to it", etc, etc. but if you have a mortgage with chase, guess whos making sure you don't get accidentally foreclosed on? heh. Blink

but by just giving it a fast read to its features you can see just how obscenely better than isboxer it is, and its FREE!.

but beware, if you download it and you run it at the same time you are playing eve, your account will get flagged and a gm will pay you a visit. Blink (don't forget that CCP has made it clear that they monitor the workplace the eve client is running in Shocked)

that software can not only automate, but it even has basic IA, advanced OCR, a stupidly complex logic system. it can even "listen"! now, compare that to the self imposed limitations isboxer suite has. Blink
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2013-05-26 01:51:20 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Peter Powers wrote:
lets be honest, the main problem with isboxer is not the isboxer functionality, its isboxer being based on innerspace.
innerspace is a game-"hacking" engine, which is build itself with the purpose of botting and macroing in mind. The business model of lavish software is to sell you innerspace, and give you the botting scripts for quite a few games for free.
some gaming companies ban you for the use of innerspace (and by using isboxer you are using innerspace) some don't.

Personally i believe that everyone using innerspace (or isboxer) is only one click away from botting, and by that he shouldn't be allowed to do so.

this is not a statement against multiboxing, its my opinion on lavish softwares products.

:words:



You hit the character limit just to say "personally, your 'beliefs' in this matter are irrelevant".
Mag's
Azn Empire
#223 - 2013-05-26 07:31:54 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
Peter Powers wrote:
lets be honest, the main problem with isboxer is not the isboxer functionality, its isboxer being based on innerspace.
innerspace is a game-"hacking" engine, which is build itself with the purpose of botting and macroing in mind. The business model of lavish software is to sell you innerspace, and give you the botting scripts for quite a few games for free.
some gaming companies ban you for the use of innerspace (and by using isboxer you are using innerspace) some don't.

Personally i believe that everyone using innerspace (or isboxer) is only one click away from botting, and by that he shouldn't be allowed to do so.

this is not a statement against multiboxing, its my opinion on lavish softwares products.

:words:



You hit the character limit just to say "personally, your 'beliefs' in this matter are irrelevant".
And completely wrong. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

nomad Raholan
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#224 - 2013-05-26 10:26:26 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Somewhere there is a video of a guy with several computers and they are all joined together so that one mouse moves all the cursors with levers and stuff while he ice mines. Wish I could remember the title or keywords to find it.
Multiboxing this one??

.,.,.,Disagree with me if you feel the need.,.,., .,.,.,Right or Wrong.,.,.,.  .,.,.,My opinion is free and mine to own.,.,.,.

Pick mee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#225 - 2013-05-26 12:09:50 UTC
its cheating plain and simple , CCP just dont have big enough ballz to do anything about it Evil
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater1
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#226 - 2013-05-26 12:31:19 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater7
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2013-05-26 12:31:20 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater3
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#228 - 2013-05-26 12:31:20 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater8
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#229 - 2013-05-26 12:31:20 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater2
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2013-05-26 12:31:48 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater4
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2013-05-26 12:31:54 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater5
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2013-05-26 12:32:00 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater6
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2013-05-26 12:32:04 UTC
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2013-05-26 13:02:01 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
please explain to me how the living *@(% can anyone bot with isboxer, innerspace, or any other multiboxing application. please, do.

InnerSpace provides you with a hook into the DirectX EndScene method.

From there you can do more or less whatever the **** you want to do. No need for something crude like OCR or repeated keystrokes.

There's a very popular InnerSpace extension for EVE, look it up if you think I'm lying to you.

.

Demolishar
United Aggression
#235 - 2013-05-26 13:04:52 UTC
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater6 wrote:
I completley agree with OP...



Oh wait.


How did you keep login tokens seperate between browsers?!

I WANT TO DO THAT!!!
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2013-05-26 13:12:39 UTC
Don't get me wrong you don't need InnerSpace to hook into EndScene but InnerSpace provides this functionality by default (convenience) and is probably less likely to get you banned than some custom hook (game devs don't want to ban all InnerSpace users).

.

Sayf ulMulk
Royal Starlancers
#237 - 2013-05-26 13:38:09 UTC
Its very simple you shouldnt use programs that in anyway interact with game in real time or in delay close to real time. Who cares that someone has xxx accounts. Was his choice at first place. If he needs program to run them its his mistake not CCP.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#238 - 2013-05-26 13:44:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
It's pretty simple.

Replication is copying, repeating, right?

Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right?
…and ISBoxer does not offer the latter. You still have to do the work. It doesn't automate anything.


Actually yes it does, otherwise there would be no difference between it and doing the same thing yourself on two different accounts without this software. But obviously there is a difference.

However, CCP has made its stance clear, and that is all that matters.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
#239 - 2013-05-26 14:11:27 UTC
People are moaning about ISBoxers because they feel hard done by that people are giving themselves this edge. You're jealous that these guys are soloing incursions or running entire mining operations on their own and are too lazy to do it yourselves, I get it...But they're paying one subscription per character just like anyone else, there's no automation involved, it's just a slightly more sophisticated version of tying together a load of mice with dowel and having one of those funky G-something keyboards.

The real point is, you hardly ever come across someone using ISBoxer, I haven't in my whole time in EVE, having ~3000 PVP kills, doing incursions, mining, plexes, missions, you name it, ever come across someone who has negatively affected my gameplay using this software, it's just really rare. If you don't like it, fair enough, but don't whine about it, no one cares, CCP included.

There's probably a couple hundred ISBoxers in the game, if that, they just stick out like a sore thumb which makes people think they're more prevalent than they are. However, each of these guys are running usually between 10 & 20 accounts each, accounts that if ISBoxer was banned WOULD be unsubbed, good luck trying to convince CCP to ban software that makes them about $150,000 a month and cause no negative effects to the game apart from upsetting forum-whiners that barely ever undock...

Damn nature, you scary!

Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#240 - 2013-05-26 14:36:53 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
please explain to me how the living *@(% can anyone bot with isboxer, innerspace, or any other multiboxing application. please, do.

InnerSpace provides you with a hook into the DirectX EndScene method.

From there you can do more or less whatever the **** you want to do. No need for something crude like OCR or repeated keystrokes.

There's a very popular InnerSpace extension for EVE, look it up if you think I'm lying to you.


GreenSeed seems to be under the impression that LavishScript does not contain conditional commands like If, If...Else, If...Elseif, and loops like Do...While, While and For. And if I read the Lavish Software wiki correctly developers can also use .NET languages like Visual Basic, C++ and C# to write code in. I found this namespace listed under the InnerSpace API available for .NET developers to use interesting.

"InnerSpace.Memory is a mechanism for using memory protection services to hide memory modifications from anti-cheat systems. As such, the original value is stored for later restoring the change to its original value. Memory protection services are implemented by extensions such as ISXEQ and ISXWarden to provide a common mechanism for modifying and protecting those modifications."

But I appear to have gotten away from the original point of this thread, in that the OP argued that ISBoxer violates 6A2 and 6A3 of the EULA. From everything I can tell it doesn't. I think it violates other areas of the EULA/ToS, but not those two. However, as CCP is turning away from a strict technical assessment of software to a "no harm, no foul" attitude (see also cache scraping), ISBoxer is not banned at this time, although CCP is clearly leaving their options open to change their minds at a later date.

For those wishing an end to the discussion about ISBoxer, CCP's open willingness to change its mind is an inducement for more threads like this. So expect to see more threads. The head of Lavish Software probably enjoys the free publicity anyway.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"