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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Eve F2P?

First post
Author
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#81 - 2013-05-24 00:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Sishen Gzi wrote:
Mara is right, the numbers of players that want WiS is so large that when they unsubscribe CCP will have to institute massive layoffs and switch to years of patches that reassure these players that CCP cares about their concerns. Oh wait... that was the exact opposite of what happened.


The people that unsubscribed did so because they perceived that CCP had failed to provide anything of value: CCP spent a lot of time on Carbon and all the players saw was Captains Shoebox. They didn't see the V3 ships, or any of the advances in the UI that have happened since then. Other reasons for the riots and unsubs were the 'Fearless' magazine 'Greed is Good' edition, the leaked email about "expected backlash", the extreme pricing of the luxury NeX items, the lack of low-cost NeX items, the NeX items bypassing the player economy, the fear of "gold ammo", :18 months:, and the poorly worded article about thousand dollar jeans. There was a "perfect storm" of mistakes that got PvPers, industrialists, PvErs, role-players, solo players, carebears and griefers alike all riled up.

If you can show me concrete evidence that the majority of people who unsubscribed and rioted in Jita were complaining about WiS existing (as opposed to only having a Minmatar shoebox, a Noble Exchange with $70 monocles, and the promise from Fearless that a nickel-and-dime show was just around the corner), I'll accept your argument as valid. I'm not claiming that the number of people who want WiS is so huge that our numbers will blot out the sun, or that unsubscribing would cause CCP to financially self destruct.

Who knows, maybe you're one of the people who was sitting near me at the CCP Presents keynote in FanFest 2011 who groaned when CCP presented the "Future Vision" video, or laughed at the lady who stated during CCP Presents that she enjoyed mining.

Unique posters in support of WiS, just based on Team Avatar and the future of our prototype (i.e.: anyone whose post shows anticipation of additions to the WiS feature):

  • Abdiel Kavash
  • Acac Sunflyler
  • Alice Saki
  • Anabella Rella
  • Anna Karhunen
  • Anslo
  • Anya Ohaya
  • Apollo-Moor
  • Aragoni
  • Aramatheia
  • Arduemont
  • Aryth
  • Asuka Solo
  • Asura Cascade
  • Athena Maldoran
  • Ayumi Hinoki
  • Baby ChuChu
  • Bagrat Skalski
  • Bane Necran
  • Barramunda
  • Barrogh Habalu
  • Becka Goldbeck
  • Belanar Colt
  • Besbin
  • Beta Miner
  • Blacksilk
  • Bloodpetal
  • Borascus
  • BoSau Hotim
  • BugraT WarheaD
  • Calapine
  • Calathorn Virpio
  • Charlotte Elizabeth
  • Che Biko
  • CMD Ishikawa
  • Creat Posudol
  • Cpt Tirel
  • Dasquirrel715
  • Davon Madra'thin
  • Dax Golem
  • Demica Diaz
  • Dersen Lowery
  • Desert Ice78
  • Desiderya
  • Dex Tera
  • Ditra Vorthran
  • Efraya
  • Eko'mo
  • Elistea
  • Escomboil
  • Eugene Kerner
  • Evandra
  • Evelyn Melyi
  • Faulx
  • Flamespar
  • FloppieTheBanjoClown
  • gabrial13
  • Gilbaron
  • Gogela
  • Grey Stormshadow
  • Grezh
  • Harry Forever
  • Helan Galanodel
  • Hikaru Kuroda
  • Hiram Alexander
  • Ifly Uwalk
  • Inquisitor Kitchener
  • luZk
  • Jame Jarl Retlef
  • J3ssica Alba
  • Jessy Berbers
  • Jill Xelitras
  • Joe Skellington
  • Johan Civire
  • Johnny Bloomington
  • Jonah Gravenstein
  • Joxxy
  • Kazur Nemic
  • Kenpachi Viktor
  • Keran Set
  • kosswomen Mckay
  • Liafcipe9000
  • Lina Thamaris
  • Lipbite
  • Loed Kane
  • Lord Okinaba
  • LtCol Laurentius
  • Lyron Backtos
  • Lyskall Oskold
  • Mal Khumm
  • Malcanis
  • Mallak Azaria
  • Marcus Harikari
  • Mars Theran
  • Matriarch Prime
  • MeBiatch
  • mechtech
  • Metal Icarus
  • Michael Stabb
  • Midnight Hope
  • Mikalia Penshar
  • Mina Sebiestar
  • Mirima Thurander
  • Naes Miahrend
  • Naomi Hale
  • Nathanien Indoril
  • None ofthe Above
  • Nyancat Audeles
  • Nyla Skin
  • Nylith Empyreal
  • oldbutfeelingyoung
  • Optimo Sebiestor
  • Pak Narhoo
  • PinkKnife
  • Rammix
  • Ranger1
  • Raw Matters
  • RazorDreamz
  • Rees Noturana
  • Rek Seven
  • Relisha
  • Rico Minali
  • Roisin Connor
  • Roll Sizzle Beef
  • Salpun
  • Scatim Helicon
  • Sentinel Mantik
  • Shamus O'Reilly
  • Sheynan
  • Shiroh Yatamii
  • Sirinda
  • Sointu Luonnotar
  • Solhild
  • SoOza N'GasZ
  • Soulpirate
  • Souxie Alduin
  • Spy 21
  • Stegas Tyrano
  • Syna Anima
  • Tali Ambraelle
  • Talus Veran
  • Tarvos Telesto
  • Telnyhr
  • Thor Kerrigan
  • Unit XS365BT
  • Vertisce Soritenshi
  • Vincent Athena
  • Viscount Hood
  • Vyktor Abyss
  • Wacktopia
  • Warde Guildencrantz
  • Winters Chill
  • Wolf Kruol
  • Xavier Quo
  • Zakarumit CZ
  • Zombie132


So yeah, just a dozen or so.

Anyone who has the time can do the same for some other WiS related threads:

221 pages

29 pages

33 pages

51

(edited to include feedback from Aduhn Slavy)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#82 - 2013-05-24 00:23:41 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Have to go against ya on this. The fear was MTs leading to a pay-to-win situation, that people would pay to get items magiced into the game, thus hurting the entire sandbox.


It was all of those. People were complaining about the actual prices of items actually in the store. People were complaining about the actual items in the store bypassing the player economy. People were also complaining about the Ishukone Watch Scorpion heralding the coming tide of pay to win "gold ships" and "gold ammo" (literally gold: the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is shiny gold). So you're right on those two fronts, and there was more.

Adunh Slavy wrote:
Not too many people cared about the fact that vanity items were introduced, pure vanity who cares. But $1000 pants was icing on the cake, and that was after the Golden Scorp, and 18 months awesomeness etc. It simply added to the 'greed' narrative that was forming. Then the news letter and devs in flames at CQ doors, one of the most epic and funny threads of all time, even if "DIAF" did get someone in trouble.


I was there during the great pony war of 2012.

It was mainly industrialists who were upset about the scorpion, mostly because it could be bought for Aurum then reprocessed for minerals to make spaceships that people would actually use, but also because the presence of that ship was a signal to further items being introduced. People who play WoT are used to the idea of having a stack of gold ammo ready for when it's needed, and gold ammo/tanks are part of that game: it's how the F2P game gets income. Gold ammo and gold ships are not part of EVE.

Adunh Slavy wrote:
I suspect we all have a slightly different perspective, from my recollection, pay to win was the biggest and most damaging, to the game, issue that players were expressing.


Well, let's say that the spectre of P2W was about 40% of the complaint, "these microtransactions are too damn high" was about 30%, the remainder was a bucket of issues from :18 months: to Minmatar Shoebox, and Fearless was just the spark that lit the powder keg.

Ultimately it was WiS that carried the brunt of player aggro because it was the flagship feature of the Incarna release and was delivered in a woefully underdeveloped state. Nevermind the V3 maller, updated turrets and firing-out-of-sequence turrets along with turret shots that actually miss the target.

For the moment I'm prepared to call this a case of "you say tomato, I say tomato" Lol
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#83 - 2013-05-24 00:28:39 UTC
PS: I still chuckle at people who talk about "micro transactions" in the Noble Exchange. It's a luxury goods store, not a micro transaction store. Do these people walk into Dolce & Gabbana and complain that there's nothing under $100?
Adunh Slavy
#84 - 2013-05-24 02:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Mara Rinn wrote:
"you say tomato, I say tomato"



From my perspective we are in basic agreement. A lot of people would like WiS, I personaly would like to have it too. Many of the anti-WiS crowd have stuck to the narrative that the Jita Riots et al were all the result of WiS, when in fact it was many things that created the perfect storm, as you have described.

If I misunderstood your earlier post, to which I responded, my appologies. If I didn't misunderstand it, and in so doing brought some clarity to the discussion, then that's ok too.

P.S. "I was there during the great pony war of 2012."

Anyone know where those threads are, Door and Ponies?

Meh nvm, found them, pic links seem broken, sad.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-05-24 02:33:32 UTC
No

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Inna Cristiana
GucciGang
#86 - 2013-05-24 02:50:59 UTC
When a game goes F2P they usually decline in quality, and after some time, they file for bankruptcy.

Only league of legends can do it effectively.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#87 - 2013-05-24 03:13:02 UTC
I'd love a free to play system, but the marketplace would need to sell items that let me permanently ban people.

Now with 100% less Troll.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#88 - 2013-05-24 04:02:18 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
PLEX is not F2P? Hmm...

You pay for PLEX with your time and skill. And *someone* bought that PLEX with real currency.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

rswfire
#89 - 2013-05-24 06:58:37 UTC
From my point of view, when an MMO goes F2P, it means it has died...or is lingering on for dear life. Eve is not that game.
pussnheels
Viziam
#90 - 2013-05-24 07:01:32 UTC
Yim Sei wrote:
...however you can only use clone upgrades, implants, plex and train/inject skills on a subscribed account?

(I suppose you could even 'police' where they could go with Concord and limit to certain ships)



Would this mean more potential customers for CCP?


Would this mean a massive influx of useless alts or bots?

What does the community think? I am interested

no we do not need WoW kiddies flying around telling us they owned our mothers

besides you already can pay for your subscription with a plex if you want to work ingame for it

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Kristina Rin
Squid Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2013-05-24 07:09:40 UTC
i've been play for nearly a year but only pay for first 4 months :D

2014 !!!

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2013-05-24 08:01:34 UTC
I make enough rl money for 2 accounts and I'm from a third-world country. Shut up.
FlamesOfHeaven
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2013-05-24 09:28:21 UTC
Forum ate my post..

EvE is not for kiddies and teens who are either too busy to grind for plex or too lazy to even earn at least 5 dollars a week for Eve subs. Those ppl are usually the ones who think they are entitled and will only make the game worst.

Quality entertainment is not free. Not for Eve.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#94 - 2013-05-24 09:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
I would like a cheaper 2nd account thats linked to my main account. A €5 euro a month cyno alt or something like that. Even though I'd like some alts, paying double money for a minor help is something I cant justify.
PLEX double training doesnt relieve that problem, afaik you cant log in 2 characters at the same account.

Or just X euro a month to be able to log in a 2nd character on the same account.
Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-05-24 09:58:18 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:
...Drivel


lots of accounts are free to play atm thanks to the introduction of PLEX




Yes, because before plex no one traded GTCs... duh

Eve has been free to play for many of us for quite a few years, I havnt even been playing the last few months but my accounts are subbed because isk isnt exactly hard to make...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Aeana K
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2013-05-24 12:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeana K
Reply to OP

I dont like F2P idea because:

a) the game will lose by time its shine, it will be considered as a cheep one.

b) there will be thousands of kidds around, the game will be a kidden garden one

c) the developers will lose motivation to please us. This is very important. No mature players are involved in any P2W game.

d) game subscription is not high anyways, something like 50c/ day. If you walk around for an hour looking for coins droped in the streets you will find much more than that.


So i dont see why to make this wonderfull game f2p...
Jureth22
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2013-05-24 12:30:41 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:
...Drivel


lots of accounts are free to play atm thanks to the introduction of PLEX




and plex can be found from npc`s in belts.they drop it.where do you think plex comes from genious?
Tristanor
Majorum Gnavita In Industria
#98 - 2013-05-30 06:10:47 UTC
Is it only me??? I allways hear people talking about pay2win situations when refering to f2p

But don't we have that allready in Eve for a long time? At least if you want to?

What's the difference between paying with rl money a big fitted warship or
buy plex, sell plex and buy same big fitted warship?

I see people on market with up to 50 plex for sale......don't they pay close to 1000$ to buy stuf ingame?

Its not that i say we need f2p or we don't need it..... or even want, but the discussion is sometimes weird when people act as if rl money can't buy a difference in eve.

The only difference is imo that people now can not immidiatly see how much rl money they pay for a ship which would maybe scare them at least a bit if they would really think about it :p



Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#99 - 2013-05-30 07:15:33 UTC
I say no to free to play.

This is because CCP need a decent revenue stream in order to continue running and developing the game we love. The cost should be spread evenly.

There is currently a way to play for free. If you make enough isk you can buy a PLEX with isk and thus play for free (free from RL money).

That way you are, by proxy, paying CCP for your account.

I don't want free to play. It will increase the amount of botting as botting accounts could play for free and thus increase their revenue thus mean more bots. Not my idea of good for the game.

If you don't want to pay with RL money pay with isk. If you don't want to pay with RL money or isk, go and play another game which you don't have to pay for.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#100 - 2013-05-30 10:36:53 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:
EVE is already F2P if you earn enough in-game to pay for it in PLEX.


This.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".