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Balancing Feedback: Tier3 Battlecruisers

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2011-11-04 11:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
This is the feedback thread for the new tier3 Battlecruisers, please post comments here.

Thanks for your time.

EDIT 01 (07/11): general ship roles/web bonus removal from Talos explanation is available here.

EDIT 02 (07/11): more info on page 11.

EDIT 03 (14/11): even more info on page 22.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#2 - 2011-11-04 13:46:54 UTC
Looking forward to testing on Sisi...

Although you've probably already read my thoughts on the matter.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Hellen Bach
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-11-04 14:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellen Bach
Please don't do the split-wweapon bonuses for the Naga! Rather make it a focused rail _or torp platform with appropriate bonuses, instead of giving it 'flexibility' in weapons with half-a-bonus each. Or leave the bonuses to both weapon systems and keep the flexibility.

Trying to have flexibility in choice + splitting the weapon bonuses just cripples the ship overall.
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
#4 - 2011-11-04 14:20:30 UTC
Exactly what Hellen said. We need 2 bonus for each of the weapons systems that we will use in the naga. ! bonus for each doesn't cut it.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#5 - 2011-11-04 15:01:10 UTC
Tend to agree. Love the flexibility and would hate to loose it, but think about handing out at least a smaller secondary bonus on the side.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-04 15:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxak
No more ships with split weapons without a split bonus.

Its ALREADY a problem if you have to use TWO TYPES OF DMG MODS. Its a double problem if you don't even benefit from ship bonuses. That makes for a useless ship.

Also, the Gallente ship could easily be worthless if blasters are not balanced well. I have yet to try that.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Anna Lynne Larson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-11-04 15:38:34 UTC
I would say that you should drop the hybrids and hybrid bonuses entirely from the Naga and replace it with Cruise Missile fitting and weapon bonuses, make it a dedicated missile BC. This is the Caldari, after all.
Hienz Doofenshmirtz
Catskull Cartel
Grimskulls
#8 - 2011-11-04 16:15:19 UTC
Can we keep the White color, I know it's from a lack of teture, but it looks so good.

I have to agree with the other coments here, it needs a single weapon system, hybrids or missles, giving it half and half makes it weak sauce

www.dust514stats.com do you know?
Frothgar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-04 16:21:06 UTC
Anna Lynne Larson wrote:
I would say that you should drop the hybrids and hybrid bonuses entirely from the Naga and replace it with Cruise Missile fitting and weapon bonuses, make it a dedicated missile BC. This is the Caldari, after all.



I think Cruise hit smaller vehicles too well as it is, and they make rails obsolite. I like the concept of the dual bonuses, but IMO the ship should be able to do either rails or torps well, rahter than just alright.

To play devil's advocate though, I think the bonus applying just to torps and Rails is a good idea. Otherwise we just end up with a bigger more annoying drake.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#10 - 2011-11-04 16:27:40 UTC
The Naga's single weapon bonus just isn't that great. Right off the bat you have put it at a disadvantage compared to the other new BC's. Either give it two weapon bonuses for each each envisioned weapon system or make it a single weapon system ship.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#11 - 2011-11-04 16:29:10 UTC
For the Oracle, could you clarify the bonus in the description for cap? As it reads, the 10% is a penalty, not a bonus. Smile Unless you intended to make them use more cap, change to "reduction".
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#12 - 2011-11-04 16:48:51 UTC
Still think the Talos needs that velocity webbing bonus or drone bay with Med web drones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Cunane Jeran
#13 - 2011-11-04 17:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cunane Jeran
I can only speak for the Talos. I love it. Absolutely love it.

Anyway Feedback

PvE: Pretty darn good. I went with a pretty basic fit

Talos PvE wrote:
8x 350mm Prototype Railguns

1x Y-something 10mn Afterburner
1x Tracking Comp II
2x Cap Recharger II

1x Medium Armor Rep II
2x Hardeners II
2x Mag Stab II

2x Aux nano pumps
1x CCC


Tank is pretty darn solid, I was orbiting at 30km using the AB in bursts to keep range (the Rails just could not hit Cruisers while it was on) I threw it against 2x Elite frigs, 1x elite cruiser and 4x 750 BS's and it was pretty easy, the biggest problem was the frigates, trying to hit them was a pain, as there is no drone bay, and its this lack of drone bay that really does stop it from being OP.

PvP:
Was trying pretty much everything I could, and damn it was a beast, the speed was fantastic with a MWD, wasn't as sluggish as I was expecting, the bonus tracking on both the Blasters and the Ship was terrifying, with a single web, stuff was being ripped to pieces, and due to the large blasters the range wasn't an issue at all, its all but impossible to kite unless your using a faction ship with 90% web. Adding a web bonus to this ship would make it overpowered as hell is all I can really say about it.

Overall a decent solo ship, one in a gang though I suspect this will be a complete and utter beast using either Rails or Blasters.
Raid'En
#14 - 2011-11-04 17:30:21 UTC
tried to fit a tornado, but didn't found anything really good.
but well i'm pretty terrible on fitting...

what most surprised me on these ships (with the fact they have no textures for now :p) is the desription style ; totally different. it's a bit like for the incursions rats
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
#15 - 2011-11-04 18:03:01 UTC
Naga: totally useless. No tank, no cpu and pg to fit anything after torpedoes. No dps to ships smaller than BS from torps. No dps from rails.

Talos: Weak tank. With blasters fitted and two webs was barely able to hit destroyer lol (perfect gunnery if you want to know). Rails just have no use.

Oracle. Not bad, pretty much liked it. Probably the most sturdy of all and have good fitting

Tornado. Good, so far probably best of all due to more than one usage possibility.

I am still not sure of their role overall, as an upgrade to anticapital "whelp" fleets? Yeah, why not. But hardly more, due to lack of staying power
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#16 - 2011-11-04 18:06:53 UTC
Hellen Bach wrote:
Please don't do the split-wweapon bonuses for the Naga! Rather make it a focused rail _or torp platform with appropriate bonuses, instead of giving it 'flexibility' in weapons with half-a-bonus each. Or leave the bonuses to both weapon systems and keep the flexibility.

Trying to have flexibility in choice + splitting the weapon bonuses just cripples the ship overall.


Balance ships, not bonuses.

There's no reason why a Naga with a split weapon system can't be a balanced, useful ship. It just needs advantages inherent to the hull to make up for the split weapon system and the lesser efficiency of fitting damage mods. However, typically these advantages are of ease of fit, speed and agility etc. - none of which Caldari hulls are generally renowned for...!
Ors Darklighter
Firing Squadron
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#17 - 2011-11-04 18:09:00 UTC
Can anyone post a screen of the skill requirements?
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
#18 - 2011-11-04 18:12:44 UTC
Ors Darklighter wrote:
Can anyone post a screen of the skill requirements?



Level 3 BC IIRC as it is tier 3 battlecruisers. Still you need skills for large guns, and lots of fitting skills, because those CPU and PG numbers are TIGHT . Those are hardly ships for starters
Ors Darklighter
Firing Squadron
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#19 - 2011-11-04 18:14:52 UTC
Schmell wrote:
Ors Darklighter wrote:
Can anyone post a screen of the skill requirements?



Level 3 BC IIRC as it is tier 3 battlecruisers. Still you need skills for large guns, and lots of fitting skills, because those CPU and PG numbers are TIGHT . Those are hardly ships for starters


I've got tech 2 large guns, just wanted to make sure they weren't like tech3 stuff where you need subsystems, etc.

Looking forward to checking them out on sisi tonight! :D
Insane Randomness
Stellar Pilgrimage
#20 - 2011-11-04 18:16:08 UTC
probably been said before, but I'll say it again. Don't make the naga a split weapons platform. Biggest issue is the only viable long range weapon for the naga is railguns, which whilest maybe slightly balanced (wouldn't know, haven't tried it yet) are still udnerpowered next too cruise missiles. That also said, this ship needs a bonus to cruise missiles so we can fit them. And perhaps an RoF bonus in place of the range bonus for torps. It's a unified NO right now on the sisi test server, the Naga will be the next Hyperion/Rokh.

Cruise missiles or bust.
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