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CSM and the new launcher

First post First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-05-22 16:42:57 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not an issue that anyone spent any amount of time on AFAIK.

Because really, this smacks of "I hate change". It's just a launcher, dambit. Its function is to launch the game, the end. If it was a plain text console, you'd still be complaining about "nostalgia".


As a member of the CSM, you should re-evaluate your tone and the way you presented yourself here.

Also as a member of the CSM, you should not immediately dismiss valid arguments and offer substance in your rebuttal beyond what essentially is a "deal with it."

This new launcher was released without warning, broke use of the game for pretty much everyone, and continues to have usability bugs which are glaring and shouldn't have even seen the light of day. User workflow was abruptly changed for the worse, and furthermore, the launcher offers only regressions in terms of features that were once available.

As a CSM, you should be communicating with CCP on these matters and relaying what you can between the rest of the user population and CCP internal developers instead of penning insolent replies such as the one you have here.


Yeah the bugs in the new launcher were bad. But that wasn't what was being talked about in this thread, to my surprise.

Thanks for the advice on how to be a CSM member though. It's much appreciated.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sarmatiko
#22 - 2013-05-22 16:44:02 UTC
Two step wrote:
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/csm/CSM_CCP_Meeting_2012_05_30.pdf (page 102)

CSM 7 talked to CCP about the launcher almost a year ago. Many of the issues that turned out to be problems were raised back then, and clearly they were not all addressed.


I especially liked this part:
Quote:

CCP Atropos noted that there had not been much feedback when the Launcher was on SiSi but some negative feedback from players when it went live. He had been expecting more CSM feedback.

One year have passed and CCP learned nothing from previous experience Smile

Also I wonder If CSM members were aware about in-game login screen removal? How they reacted? Why no one asked for community feedback about this feature (just like with jukebox, and possibly in future with calculator\notepad)?
Sarmatiko
#23 - 2013-05-22 17:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Malcanis wrote:
Thanks for the advice on how to be a CSM member though. It's much appreciated.

I actually approve this kind of member in CSM.
The more ignorant dummies with superiority complex we will have in current CSM, the less votes and credibility next CSM will get.
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#24 - 2013-05-22 17:10:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Yeah the bugs in the new launcher were bad. But that wasn't what was being talked about in this thread, to my surprise.

Thanks for the advice on how to be a CSM member though. It's much appreciated.


The OP's question was aimed at enquiring about the CSM's interaction with CCP regarding the launcher. I would take this to encompass both technical and non-technical aspects around the launcher, and whether the CSM and CCP adequately communicated to each other - CCP in terms of release plans, and CSM in terms of ensuring that user testing feedback and bugs were adequately addressed.

In terms of giving a straight answer, your reply started off well. The CSM and CCP communicated minimally on this. Fine, that's a direct and succinct answer.

You then took it upon yourself to needlessly editorialize on why the OP asked the question in the first place, and negatively so. This is where you went off the rails. I know you're new to the role, but it should be no mystery to you that successful CSM members of the past owe much of their success to good communication skills. Since Bible verses appear to resonate with you, look up James 1:20.

Anea Ruminare
#25 - 2013-05-22 17:48:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's not an issue that anyone spent any amount of time on AFAIK.

Because really, this smacks of "I hate change". It's just a launcher, dambit. Its function is to launch the game, the end. If it was a plain text console, you'd still be complaining about "nostalgia".



What zombie elected this jocker? If you hate so much to answer a decent, benevolent post, than abstain from trolling.
The login has "sentimental value" for some players, nothing to mock in that sentence.

You assumed the CSM membership role, nobody forced you; if you can`t speake nice with people than maybe you should resign. Cash your free "Go to Island ticket" and afterwards resign.

You were rude.


Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#26 - 2013-05-22 18:16:47 UTC
Anea Ruminare wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not an issue that anyone spent any amount of time on AFAIK.

Because really, this smacks of "I hate change". It's just a launcher, dambit. Its function is to launch the game, the end. If it was a plain text console, you'd still be complaining about "nostalgia".



What zombie elected this jocker? If you hate so much to answer a decent, benevolent post, than abstain from trolling.
The login has "sentimental value" for some players, nothing to mock in that sentence.

You assumed the CSM membership role, nobody forced you; if you can`t speake nice with people than maybe you should resign. Cash your free "Go to Island ticket" and afterwards resign.

You were rude.



He's a politician of sorts, dismissive and rude is in the job description. That said, the current CSM has been in for a matter of weeks, as already stated elsewhere in the thread it was CSM 7 that was informed about the launcher change, not CSM 8.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Schwa Nuts
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2013-05-22 19:07:23 UTC
This thread is dumb.
Az'Kagoth
War Crime Syndicate
#28 - 2013-05-22 19:31:08 UTC
While I agree that nostalgia should be irrelevant and the creation of a new launcher is generally a positive thing,
I do hope though that the CSM does point out to CCP that a bit more QA and fixing of bugs already mentioned in test server feedback can't hurt the next time they want to roll out a new feature.

Many are already able to use their launchers again, me and a lot of others are still fighting bugs. This could have all been prevented, not through CCP talking to the CSM, but rather CCP acting on the bug reports that were made a week ago already.
Wanderinlost
Task Force MK7
#29 - 2013-05-22 19:31:15 UTC
If this is truly a road to one click switching between accounts and alts this is one of the best things they have ever done. The animated launch screen is pretty cool but it would be a worthy sacrifice to reduced a 3 stage load into one stage.

MAybe there is a way to convert eve load screen into an animated windows wallpaper? Having it both ways would be best :P
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#30 - 2013-05-22 19:35:48 UTC
Personally I'm indifferent to the login screen, however the multibox issue is a pain. Yes, there is a workaround but CCP were clearly well aware of this problem prior to release and they should have made an announcement first before releasing the patch. It's not like it would have cost them anything

This was a shambles with poor QA, it was almost as if CCP went deliberately out of their way to **** off their customer base.

Perhaps the CSM might like to remind CCP that a little communication in advance goes a long way to generate good will with their customers.
Draqone an'Alreigh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-05-22 19:45:38 UTC
I'd just like to say I approve of Malcanis' subtle message that requests like this waste CSM time. It'd be even better if he didn't waste time arguing here since that just feeds the troll. Still, I feel well represented by him.

My only hope is that the Odyssey launch is going to be smoother then this. Lol

Inducing the proliferation of common sense throughout EVE Official forums since April 27th, 2013.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#32 - 2013-05-22 19:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Earlier today it occured to me that, now that we're being unceremoniously thrown to the old character selection screen, this screen could be replaced with something that kept the spirit of the old login screen, with themed animations and music for each expansion. This way the first interactable screen in the game still would be a "cool down" one and the game would retain its soul, just for the stupid who happened to like the animated login screen.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-05-22 20:24:35 UTC
Jace Errata wrote:
... Please remember you should be listening to what people want now, not...
When did this happen? You really expect the picked candidates of the Goonswarm Federation, TEST, Pandemic League, to listen to what the people want?

Malcanis openly ran as an independent on... he would be Malcanis. He never claimed he was going to listen to the wants of the masses.



Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#34 - 2013-05-22 20:24:37 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Earlier today it occured to me that, now that we're being unceremoniously thrown to the old character selection screen, this screen could be replaced with something that kept the spirit of the old login screen, with themed animations and music for each expansion. This way the first interactable screen in the game still would be a "cool down" one and the game would retain its soul, just for the stupid who happened to like the animated login screen.

Now this is a great example of a good suggestion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#35 - 2013-05-22 20:31:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Personally I'm indifferent to the login screen, however the multibox issue is a pain. Yes, there is a workaround but CCP were clearly well aware of this problem prior to release and they should have made an announcement first before releasing the patch. It's not like it would have cost them anything

This was a shambles with poor QA, it was almost as if CCP went deliberately out of their way to **** off their customer base.

Perhaps the CSM might like to remind CCP that a little communication in advance goes a long way to generate good will with their customers.

It had already been communicated that the new launcher was going to be released very soon, possibly before the upcoming release. The only thing we lacked was the exact launch date.

As far as communication with the player base about the issue:
In case you missed it.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Anyura
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-05-22 20:43:58 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Earlier today it occured to me that, now that we're being unceremoniously thrown to the old character selection screen, this screen could be replaced with something that kept the spirit of the old login screen, with themed animations and music for each expansion. This way the first interactable screen in the game still would be a "cool down" one and the game would retain its soul, just for the stupid who happened to like the animated login screen.


Tell you what CSM folks - put this suggestion to CCP and I'll shut up about the launcher, because this is pretty much all I'm looking for.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-05-22 20:46:07 UTC
How hard it to say to CCP "You should improve your QA process."

And don't tell me it had nothing to do with QA. A server problem is still a QA problem.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-05-22 21:00:35 UTC
Not all change is progress, eh? Sure, there are all too many in EVE that complain about any change just because it is change - but isn't there danger in thinking that all player commentary on something particular is all whinging? Personally, when the new launcher had...difficulties, I figured "all right, well, CCP will have this sorted soon enough" and went to go do something else. Sure enough they did. However, that doesn't make it a good idea. Wouldn't possible increased functionality best be balanced with a bit of presentation pizazz coupled with a bit of tradition continuity? IIRC that Business for Dummies book I glanced through at the bookshop said something like: "Too much Engineering Dept. = cool capabilities but grey, lifeless presentation that interests few, too much Marketing Dept. = something that looks good but doesn't really do anything. For some reason I feel like looking up the Icelandic words for "balance, please"...
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#39 - 2013-05-22 22:29:51 UTC
Andski wrote:
yo CSM dudes how many of you have logged in since the launcher update?

just curious


Was logged in right from after DT yesterday. As I let he launcher update, then ignore it and use my exefile update I got some pew pew and chat and so on, so didnt feel a need to spam forums about it.

And just logged out now after actually fighting people.
mmorpg lol
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#40 - 2013-05-22 23:39:46 UTC
This whole thread is hilarious. Want the old login screen? Just launch eve via exefile instead of the launcher. Mad about anything else? Please go review patch day rules...