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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

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Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#441 - 2013-05-20 20:40:53 UTC
smoking gun81 wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:


The whole "100mn cap" wasn't even a serious mention, you just took it and ran, raining sand from between your legs. It was made in jest.


Are you me or am I you ??

Please don't presume that anything I've suggested in this thread is in jest regardless of what you or anyone else thinks it's after all a forum a place for open discussion.

Apologies if I appear to be abrupt but people should not need reminding to abide by the forum rules.

Flame and troll away I've got an update deployment schedule to keep to reality is calling......RollRoll



If it wasn't a joke, then I overestimated your intelligence.

There are other ways to address the speed tanking. Increasing citadel cruise explosion velocity while adjusting scan res for sub APS when a dread is under siege is a start.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#442 - 2013-05-20 20:56:07 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
smoking gun81 wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:


The whole "100mn cap" wasn't even a serious mention, you just took it and ran, raining sand from between your legs. It was made in jest.


Are you me or am I you ??

Please don't presume that anything I've suggested in this thread is in jest regardless of what you or anyone else thinks it's after all a forum a place for open discussion.

Apologies if I appear to be abrupt but people should not need reminding to abide by the forum rules.

Flame and troll away I've got an update deployment schedule to keep to reality is calling......RollRoll



If it wasn't a joke, then I overestimated your intelligence.

There are other ways to address the speed tanking. Increasing citadel cruise explosion velocity while adjusting scan res for sub APS when a dread is under siege is a start.


The missile damage formula is pretty good at mitigating damage across ship classes, so I don't know why explosion velocities are so damn low to start with.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2013-05-20 22:39:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
smoking gun81 wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:


The whole "100mn cap" wasn't even a serious mention, you just took it and ran, raining sand from between your legs. It was made in jest.


Are you me or am I you ??

Please don't presume that anything I've suggested in this thread is in jest regardless of what you or anyone else thinks it's after all a forum a place for open discussion.

Apologies if I appear to be abrupt but people should not need reminding to abide by the forum rules.

Flame and troll away I've got an update deployment schedule to keep to reality is calling......RollRoll



If it wasn't a joke, then I overestimated your intelligence.

There are other ways to address the speed tanking. Increasing citadel cruise explosion velocity while adjusting scan res for sub APS when a dread is under siege is a start.


The missile damage formula is pretty good at mitigating damage across ship classes, so I don't know why explosion velocities are so damn low to start with.

-Liang



I think they really balance it as if most ships would not use a prop mod . And make it slow enough that the fastest ships in a ship class can mitigaet some damage even without propulsion mods.


That may work on some classes, but not all ...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Pitt POssum
Perkone
Caldari State
#444 - 2013-05-21 07:40:10 UTC
This thread is full of win, and pathetic creatures, guess thats what makes it win.

Just get over it that your little gallente pwn mobile got a bit more in line with the other dreads. Its still the best if you ask me.

I am inteseristed to see how the Rev changes work out, as it was kinda, meh before, its a good ship but the moros overall awesomeness was dimishing it.

Someone who can fly all dreads signing off. (best thing you can do vs balance changes btw, just get into the new flavour of the patchcycle pwnmobile and laugh about all the forum whiners)
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#445 - 2013-05-21 11:11:20 UTC
Closed server client data:

  • Dual Giga Pulse Laser I
  • maxRange: 37500.0 => 40000.0

  • Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I
  • maxRange: 41250.0 => 44000.0

  • 6x2500mm Heavy Gallium Repeating Cannon
  • trackingSpeed: 0.00486 => 0.00437

  • 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I
  • trackingSpeed: 0.00486 => 0.00437

  • Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I
  • falloff: 15000.0 => 25000.0
  • maxRange: 30000.0 => 20000.0
  • trackingSpeed: 0.0054125 => 0.0046

  • Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I
  • falloff: 15000.0 => 25000.0
  • maxRange: 33000.0 => 23000.0
  • trackingSpeed: 0.0054125 => 0.0046

    • Those interested can compare with % numbers that were initially written.
    Gargantoi
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #446 - 2013-05-21 11:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gargantoi
    ok .....the citadel explosion velocity removement was needed for a long time ...since phoenix can`t do full dps to a moving titan or carrier .....tbh exp velocity should be boosted a lil bit ..to like 100-120 m / sec
    Vincent Gaines
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #447 - 2013-05-21 11:42:00 UTC
    Pitt POssum wrote:
    This thread is full of win, and pathetic creatures, guess thats what makes it win.

    Just get over it that your little gallente pwn mobile got a bit more in line with the other dreads. Its still the best if you ask me.

    I am inteseristed to see how the Rev changes work out, as it was kinda, meh before, its a good ship but the moros overall awesomeness was dimishing it.

    Someone who can fly all dreads signing off. (best thing you can do vs balance changes btw, just get into the new flavour of the patchcycle pwnmobile and laugh about all the forum whiners)



    You're so cool because you can fly all dreads.

    oh wait, so can a lot of us and even more after the expansion.

    Not a diplo. 

    The above post was edited for spelling.
    mynnna
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #448 - 2013-05-21 12:23:45 UTC
    Gargantoi wrote:
    ok .....the citadel explosion velocity removement was needed for a long time ...since phoenix can`t do full dps to a moving titan or carrier .....tbh exp velocity should be boosted a lil bit ..to like 100-120 m / sec


    I want you to go and write the following sentence on a chalkboard 50 times.

    "Explosion Velocity and Target Velocity do not enjoy a direct, linear relationship when calculating missile damage."

    Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
    Vincent Gaines
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #449 - 2013-05-21 14:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
    mynnna wrote:


    I want you to go and write the following sentence on a chalkboard 50 times.

    "Explosion Velocity and Target Velocity do not enjoy a direct, linear relationship when calculating missile damage."



    um... yes, it does.

    There are two factors when applying initial missile damage:

    1) Explosion Velocity vs Target Velocity

    2) Explosion Radius vs Signature Radius

    Not a diplo. 

    The above post was edited for spelling.
    feihcsiM
    THE B0YS
    #450 - 2013-05-21 15:05:00 UTC
    DREADS BEST TO WORST PRE-PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Rev
    3) Nag
    4) Phoenix


    DREAD MOST NERFED -> DREAD MOST BUFFED IN PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Nag
    3) Rev
    4)Phoenix


    DREADS BEST TO WORST POST-PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Rev
    3) Nag
    4) Phoenix


    Aaand I think that covers why the current dread class 'balance'.... isn't. Something needed to be done.

    It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
    Vincent Gaines
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #451 - 2013-05-21 15:18:55 UTC
    feihcsiM wrote:
    DREADS BEST TO WORST PRE-PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Rev
    3) Nag
    4) Phoenix


    DREAD MOST NERFED -> DREAD MOST BUFFED IN PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Phoenix
    3) Nag
    4) Rev


    DREADS BEST TO WORST POST-PATCH

    1/2) Nag / Moros
    3) Rev
    4) Phoenix




    Fixed your terrible post.

    Not a diplo. 

    The above post was edited for spelling.
    Gypsio III
    Questionable Ethics.
    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
    #452 - 2013-05-21 20:19:25 UTC
    Vincent Gaines wrote:
    mynnna wrote:


    I want you to go and write the following sentence on a chalkboard 50 times.

    "Explosion Velocity and Target Velocity do not enjoy a direct, linear relationship when calculating missile damage."



    um... yes, it does.

    There are two factors when applying initial missile damage:

    1) Explosion Velocity vs Target Velocity

    2) Explosion Radius vs Signature Radius


    3. Target Signature vs. Explosion Radius

    Come on, this is basic stuff.
    Goldensaver
    Maraque Enterprises
    Just let it happen
    #453 - 2013-05-21 21:07:44 UTC
    Gypsio III wrote:
    Vincent Gaines wrote:
    mynnna wrote:


    I want you to go and write the following sentence on a chalkboard 50 times.

    "Explosion Velocity and Target Velocity do not enjoy a direct, linear relationship when calculating missile damage."



    um... yes, it does.

    There are two factors when applying initial missile damage:

    1) Explosion Velocity vs Target Velocity

    2) Explosion Radius vs Signature Radius


    3. Target Signature vs. Explosion Radius

    Come on, this is basic stuff.

    That was number 2.
    Gypsio III
    Questionable Ethics.
    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
    #454 - 2013-05-21 21:49:33 UTC
    So it was. Lol

    Oh well. The point is that the excess signature modifies the explosion radius, such that a ship with a planet-sized sig has to go at silly speeds to mitigate damage.
    Hagika
    Standard Corp 123
    #455 - 2013-05-21 22:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
    Vincent Gaines wrote:
    feihcsiM wrote:
    DREADS BEST TO WORST PRE-PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Rev
    3) Nag
    4) Phoenix


    DREAD MOST NERFED -> DREAD MOST BUFFED IN PATCH

    1) Moros
    2) Phoenix
    3) Nag
    4) Rev


    DREADS BEST TO WORST POST-PATCH

    1/2) Nag / Moros
    3) Rev
    4) Phoenix




    Fixed your terrible post.


    The phoenix was barely buffed and still has the same issues that it did even after the buff. It continues to be the absolute worst dread by far.
    Hagika
    Standard Corp 123
    #456 - 2013-05-21 22:54:03 UTC
    iskflakes wrote:
    Is this a feedback thread or a "feedback thread"?



    CCP version of feedback thread is hey...We are changing sh!t..Give us feedback. Then they dont respond and put changes through anyways, regardless of how bad they are.

    Should be renamed to announcement thread, because they sure dont do feedback.
    mynnna
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #457 - 2013-05-21 23:55:40 UTC
    Vincent Gaines wrote:
    mynnna wrote:


    I want you to go and write the following sentence on a chalkboard 50 times.

    "Explosion Velocity and Target Velocity do not enjoy a direct, linear relationship when calculating missile damage."



    um... yes, it does.

    There are two factors when applying initial missile damage:

    1) Explosion Velocity vs Target Velocity

    2) Explosion Radius vs Signature Radius


    Except in the formula, (Explosion Velocity)/(Target Velocity) is multiplied by (Sig radius/Explosion radius) and then the whole mess is raised to ln(drf)/(ln5.5), so it's not actually necessary for the missile explosion velocity to be higher than the target's velocity as long as (sig radius/explosion radius) is big enough.

    Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
    Grunnax Aurelius
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #458 - 2013-05-22 00:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
    so has anybody learned that you dont vote goonswarm members for CSM yet?

    because they seem incredibly biased towards changes that afect the ships or equipment they use!!!

    So stop saying that phoenix doesn't need buffs because it does.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
    Weasel Juice
    Mayhem and Destruction
    #459 - 2013-05-22 00:22:51 UTC
    With current numbers, Moros outdamaged the Revelation at all ranges, except when you went into falloff on Radio XL, basically the outermost range - with superior tracking still.

    Now if you consider a Revelation and a Moros, both with 3 range scripted tracking computers fitted:

    The Revelation loads Gamma XL, and gets 45+24km.
    The Moros loads Uranium XL, and gets 44+36km with roughly 20% DPS more.

    After the change:

    The Revelation loads Gamma XL, and gets 48+24km
    The Moros loads Uranium XL, and gets 34km+46km with roughly 20% DPS more.

    At the optimal spot of the Revelation, it still still deal a good 16-18% more DPS with *still* superior tracking.


    While it's a good step in the right direction, it's far from being a solid balancing position that we can play with.
    Hagika
    Standard Corp 123
    #460 - 2013-05-22 00:36:25 UTC
    Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
    so has anybody learned that you dont vote goonswarm members for CSM yet?

    because they seem incredibly biased towards changes that afect the ships or equipment they use!!!

    So stop saying that phoenix doesn't need buffs because it does.


    Ive flown with Goon many times, and would normally disregard this statement, but I kinda have to agree.