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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

First post First post First post
Author
SPYDER245
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#501 - 2013-06-02 06:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: SPYDER245
Goldensaver wrote:
Perhaps if there were a stepping stone between Battleships and Capitals that was perhaps 800m sig radius and met mid way for speed and agility (so at a snails pace, but not continental drift), then it would make sense for Dreads to be a hard counter to that.



Absolutely, but since there is no stepping stone ( except maybe for the orca, which is the right size but not a combat vessel ), dreads are rendered quite useless in combat by the huge number of nerfs applied periodically. Considering their price is 10x the price of a battleship, i think they should be able to make a stand against 3-4 of them quite easily - like battleships can do something against 3-4 cruisers ( well mods like agility/T2 variants should count ofcourse, but basically a 1v1 when both ships are at their basic speed/defense levels should have about the same outcome as an encounter between the next/previous 2 classes of ships ). Maybe make the siege mode efficient against structures/other capitals alone but leave the possibility to shoot smaller ships in normal mode. Supercaps are VERY effective against capitals, even without DD weapons, why shouldnt capitals be equaly effective against battleships ?
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#502 - 2013-06-03 11:48:56 UTC
I have to say that I thought XL Artillery would get looked at during this patch.

So far, the Moros hits for around 60-70k per volley on a standard Archon setup. The Artillery Naglfar (Designed for alpha) is hitting around 50-60k every 14 seconds. This seems hugely wrong and needs to be looked at. Why no lookie CCP? The Arty Nag should be hitting a standard archon for at LEAST 110 - 140k.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#503 - 2013-06-03 21:51:43 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I have to say that I thought XL Artillery would get looked at during this patch.

So far, the Moros hits for around 60-70k per volley on a standard Archon setup. The Artillery Naglfar (Designed for alpha) is hitting around 50-60k every 14 seconds. This seems hugely wrong and needs to be looked at. Why no lookie CCP? The Arty Nag should be hitting a standard archon for at LEAST 110 - 140k.


What ammo was that on the nag?

Assuming a fairly standard archon fit then the archon has quite a bit lower resistance to kin/therm (antimatter) than it does to EMP or phased plasma - try loading up fusion if you aren't already and you should be seeing closer to those 100+K volleys.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#504 - 2013-06-04 09:28:07 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I have to say that I thought XL Artillery would get looked at during this patch.

So far, the Moros hits for around 60-70k per volley on a standard Archon setup. The Artillery Naglfar (Designed for alpha) is hitting around 50-60k every 14 seconds.


Capital artillery isn't designed for alpha though. The role of alpha, or at least volley damage, in capital weapons is currently taken by citadel torps. It's about the only thing that citadel torps are good for, so I'm not sure that attempting to boost a good dread (Naglfar) and nerf a really bad one (Phoenix) is such a good idea... P
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#505 - 2013-06-06 20:45:59 UTC
When are these going be unstickied to give Page 1 back to Player Posts? Odyssey is in and the Feedback and Issues threads are active. Why not replace these with a "Link Sticky" to those two threads?

We all know how lazy we are to go clicking...wait for it...past Page 3 of this Forum section. Blink
whitey
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2013-06-09 23:15:44 UTC
This is absolutely riddicuous!!

I have no idea what the moros is like compared to other dreadnought as it's the only dread i own. The fact that i have decent skills and the sleeper bs in question has plenty of webs and painters on it, i cannot hit it for **** since the nerf!!

firing 3 meta 2 blasters with antimater and having 3 tracking enhancer 2's in lows and 2 tracking computers in mids and i still cant hit anything sort it out!!

hitting once out of 20 shots, whats the poiunt of having a moros if you cant use the guns to hit anything

Riddiculous!!!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#507 - 2013-06-09 23:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I have to say that I thought XL Artillery would get looked at during this patch.

So far, the Moros hits for around 60-70k per volley on a standard Archon setup. The Artillery Naglfar (Designed for alpha) is hitting around 50-60k every 14 seconds. This seems hugely wrong and needs to be looked at. Why no lookie CCP? The Arty Nag should be hitting a standard archon for at LEAST 110 - 140k.


The arty Nag'll pump out around 111k Alpha.

A Blaster Moros will do about 57k Alpha.


Why no lookie? Because your numbers are wrong.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

bongpacks
Rules of Acquisition
#508 - 2013-06-14 13:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: bongpacks
I trained and built a moros in my wormhole (oh my god so many jumps just to bring all the components in) so I could rig it before patch day. Then I read that they're nerfing it's optimal, sure I could fit all kinds of tracking modules and lose cap stability, or use thorium and lose around 4k DPS but why should I have to. AFAIK dreads were made for blapping structures or stationary capitals hence why they are stationary themselves while in siege, POS are probably the most blapped structures in the game so why have a dread that can't hit a large tower without crippling itself to do so or doing DPS that's only slightly better than any other dread using short range weapons and high damage ammo. Can't even get enough tracking mods on the thing to hit a large tower in optimal with antimatter anyways. Someone brought up that "it can't be the best at blapping offline towers AND online towers too." Every other dread can hit a large tower in optimal with short range weapons and high damage ammo, why not the moros?

If you don't want dreads blapping subcaps then make them unable to target subcapitals. If I had known I was gonna get screwed on such short notice before patch day I would have trained for a nag instead, I mean it's vertical for crying out loud! Not to mention the thing cost me twice what it's worth in mineral value because of all the market speculation over the nag changes, that may not mean squat to all the rich null kids who get fed isk in those rich complexes snug and safe deep in their sov space but considering most players will never see 10 digits in their wallet without months of grinding it's a pretty big deal. So what it does a little more DPS than a nag, the nag can choose damage types making it a better choice for POS bashing after these changes.

Yes I'm mad cause a ship I put a lot of time and "imaginary" money into got made less relevant after I was already too far into the process of training for it and buying the parts to build it. Why shouldn't I be? Should be able to hit a large tower in optimal with antimatter or make the forcefield smaller, or maybe, just maybe, don't nerf a weapons system because a different one sucks so hard and has sucked since the day it was made. Fixing badly designed ships and weapons by nerfing ones that are decent is a pretty bad idea. I really have no good points to make, I'm just venting because I wasted a couple months training and a little over 5 billion isk on a ship that was the best choice for what I needed it for and now it isn't.

Seems that the problem most people have with the moros is that it has too much DPS in falloff, so you give more falloff? Seen some people suggesting we fit rails on the moros for POS bashing, yeah that works if you want to do half the potential DPS of the ship. Why not give the thing 25km optimal and take the falloff back to say, 10km falloff? Would that not help at all? I'm just throwing things out there because really anything seems like a better idea than making a ship, which one of it's primary roles is blapping towers, not be able to hit in optimal a large tower with it's best ammo because of some gripes about something completely unrelated to blapping structures. I'll stop here, I feel the heat already.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#509 - 2013-06-14 13:50:17 UTC
How about an additional high slot and 4th launcher for the Phoenix?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Neithari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#510 - 2013-06-14 13:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Neithari
bongpacks wrote:
I trained and built a moros in my wormhole (oh my god so many jumps just to bring all the components in) so I could rig it before patch day. Then I read that they're nerfing it's optimal, sure I could fit all kinds of tracking modules and lose cap stability, or use thorium and lose around 4k DPS but why should I have to. AFAIK dreads were made for blapping structures or stationary capitals hence why they are stationary themselves while in siege, POS are probably the most blapped structures in the game so why have a dread that can't hit a large tower without crippling itself to do so or doing DPS that's only slightly better than any other dread using short range weapons and high damage ammo. Can't even get enough tracking mods on the thing to hit a large tower in optimal with antimatter anyways. Someone brought up that "it can't be the best at blapping offline towers AND online towers too." Every other dread can hit a large tower in optimal with short range weapons and high damage ammo, why not the moros?...


The moros is still the Dread with the most DPS at optimal range to a large POS, around 30-35 km. And thats with a cap stable fit using Antimatter and full t2 fit, compared to Nag with Meta guns and Rev with faction crystals. Nag has same DPS but at loss of tank mods (2TCs) and it´s using Meta guns which have a good price/profit relation due to only 2 hardpoints. The old XL Blasters simple were to good. It was Moros or gtfo. Now you can choose between Nag and Moros and loose just some short range dps But gain better tank, choosable damage type and less cap use.

And for a side note...Only the Rev can hit a large POS in optimal with close range ammo but it does pathetic dps compared to Nag and Moros. Rev 31km optimal with MF and 1 TC, Nag 24km with EMP 2 TE and 2 TC (which is bad) and Moros 16km with AM.

Quote:
[Moros, Cap Stable]
Damage Control II
Capital Armor Repairer I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL
Siege Module II

Capital Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Capital Trimark Armor Pump I
Capital Trimark Armor Pump I

bongpacks
Rules of Acquisition
#511 - 2013-06-14 14:39:14 UTC
From forcefield edge to the tower is about 25km-27km, not sure where you got 35km from. Says 30KM in the attributes but you can get closer than that for sure. In what game universe is that fit cap stable? Stable with just the guns going sure, but that tower is gonna eat your ass. 4 minutes 47 seconds with everything running and 8 minutes with just the rep running. Rev hits in optimal with meta pulse without any tracking modules, nag gets damn close with two TE's and one TC at 23km optimal with meta autocannons. Put two TC's and one TE on that fit you posted and the optimal is still only 17km.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#512 - 2013-06-14 14:50:35 UTC
phalanx III wrote:
I'm coming back next year Raivi.

Just so I can give you a swift kick in the baby maker.


Make it 2, 1 is from me. Thx

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#513 - 2013-06-14 14:51:52 UTC
bongpacks wrote:
From forcefield edge to the tower is about 25km-27km, not sure where you got 35km from. Says 30KM in the attributes but you can get closer than that for sure. In what game universe is that fit cap stable? Stable with just the guns going sure, but that tower is gonna eat your ass. 4 minutes 47 seconds with everything running and 8 minutes with just the rep running. Rev hits in optimal with meta pulse without any tracking modules, nag gets damn close with two TE's and one TC at 23km optimal with meta autocannons. Put two TC's and one TE on that fit you posted and the optimal is still only 17km.


It's almost like you're not going to be able to use the highest damage ammo on the shortest ranged weapons in every situation.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#514 - 2013-06-14 14:56:04 UTC
Jon Chninkel wrote:
RIP Moros.

Can't shoot anymore a large POS outside shields with AM... becomes an "attack dread" made for speed an short range DPS ?
Better reprocess it.

More seriously, stop and compare dreads, begin to ask yourself what this class of ships is made for.



erm...shield fit it? Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Neithari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2013-06-14 15:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Neithari
bongpacks wrote:
From forcefield edge to the tower is about 25km-27km, not sure where you got 35km from. Says 30KM in the attributes but you can get closer than that for sure. In what game universe is that fit cap stable? Stable with just the guns going sure, but that tower is gonna eat your ass. 4 minutes 47 seconds with everything running and 8 minutes with just the rep running. Rev hits in optimal with meta pulse without any tracking modules, nag gets damn close with two TE's and one TC at 23km optimal with meta autocannons. Put two TC's and one TE on that fit you posted and the optimal is still only 17km.


damn killed my post... ok again but now the short version.

1. You should not stay at 0 on a FF with a Capital, period.
2. Even if you do every km closer to the POS goes in favor of the DPS of a Moros
3. You don´t need a cap stable with repper fitting. Because it´s eather I can tank this all day long with pulsing reps or I die in horrible pain trying to do as much damage as possible till I die. There is no I can tank them exacly by perma running my repper.
4. It doesn´t matter whether the target is in optimal or not. What matters is who can apply the most dps and thats still the Moros followed by Nag.
bongpacks
Rules of Acquisition
#516 - 2013-06-15 11:56:50 UTC
lol are all the CSM members forum trolls?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#517 - 2013-06-15 17:24:08 UTC
bongpacks wrote:
lol are all the CSM members forum trolls?


All I see is them calling out stupid. If you consider that trolling...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#518 - 2013-06-16 17:54:37 UTC
Just because I enjoy it, that doesn't make it trolling.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#519 - 2013-06-16 21:13:17 UTC
This thread:

*Moros gets a tracking nerf and range buff*

OHNOZ MOROS CAN'T HIT POS ANYMOAR!!
what, are you orbiting it?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."