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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

First post First post First post
Author
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#241 - 2013-05-18 02:59:13 UTC
deleted. double post.
Tasha Saisima
Doomheim
#242 - 2013-05-18 03:10:56 UTC
dread blapping should not be nerfed but encouraged. As long as I can still blap battleships, I'm fine
Zangorus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2013-05-18 03:34:35 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Ok... so without optimal range scripts loaded, the moros will now have a stunning:
15km with antimatter

WTF? You're joking, right? Yes, you are putting the falloff up to 30km after skills, but that still makes this pretty much useless for WH combat. If we load 3 tracking comps with range scripts, this will bump it up to 22km optimal and 65km falloff. At this point, you have turned the moros into a naglfar copycat (with 3 optimal scripts, the nag gets 25+75). So at what point then is the nag actually going to be better than a moros now? Even with -15% to tracking, the moros will still track better than the nag, and the revelation. The only ship that comes out well in this deal is the revelation, and that is only because it can still use multifrequency at all times.

A nerf to tracking is understandable, but the rest of the changes are just stupid. And overall - this will not reduce dread blapping in the least. The only change is maybe 1 extra target painter needed.

-Arazel

heard about rails?

Like my comment and recieve 1 million isk ingame!

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#244 - 2013-05-18 03:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
iskflakes wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
You'll still do more raw damage than either the Nag or the Rev on a pos shield, even with the nerf. Also, you have midslots and lowslots, and there's tracking enhancers and tracking computers if you're really that insecure about your damage output.


Most fits don't have room for 4 tracking computers, and tracking enhancers are getting nerfed. Most of the time you will have to downgrade to the next ammo, which will half your DPS, making the other dreads more effective in practice.

Edit: Just run some numbers in EFT. With 4 tracking computers you can get an optimal of 15km, which means if you're at 0 on the bubble you will JUST be able to hit it. No amount of tracking mods will get you 20km optimal though, so if you're more than 1 or 2 km away from the shield (as you will be) you will be in falloff.



A Moros can drop down to Thorium (at its 32km Optimal) before dropping below the DPS of a Revelation with Multifreq (at its23km Optimal). That's (3 T2 Damage mods, no Tracking/range mods on each) 9022 DPS for the Moros vs 8873 DPS for the Rev.

(Also, right now, the Moros running Antimatter does more damage at all ranges than the Revelation with Multifreq. In fact, playing around with ammo choices, there are very few spots where the Rev can out damage the Moros when both pick the best ammo for that range.)

For the Moros (still using Thorium) to hit the DPS of the Rev, you have to go out to around 36km (or 4km into falloff) (~26km after the nerf).

Lose 10km Optimal, and now the Moros with Thorium is still doing more damage at POS ranges than the Revelation.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#245 - 2013-05-18 04:18:24 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Never fails. I buy a ship, it gets nerfed. Anyone have a ship they want nerfed? Let me know.

Not a complaint by the way. I think these are good changes.



Fly caldari, then you wont have to worry about any nerfs, most of their ships already are the worst in game, so it can only get better.. Wait, nevermind.. They have been sucking for years.
Styledatol
Stellar Forge Industries
#246 - 2013-05-18 04:20:55 UTC
Good start, which is what I don't get. Why balance dreads halfway, and then come back to it at a later date to finish?

Great work nerfing the moros, finally those elitist moros bastards are getting toned down, though I would like to see the phoenix buffed some more.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2013-05-18 04:28:17 UTC
Fozzie wasn't kidding. On a standard Moros the applied DPS drop is pretty much negligible.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Grunnax Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#248 - 2013-05-18 04:48:15 UTC
I can see people throwing Flare Catalysts on their Phoenix xD.

The Phoenix will no longer suck against normal Capitals!!!

I think it will become the best situationally because its 12,000DPS with 147.5K Alpha at 60km

Having a couple of Flare Catalysts will fully apply damage to moving supers otherwise Flare Catalysts are not necessary against sieged or triaged caps.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread

Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#249 - 2013-05-18 04:53:26 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:


We're almost there.

One day the Phoenix will rise from it's ashes and claim it's rightful place as Lord of Dreadnaughts!

Muhahaha.

*rubs hands*


You have a better chances of winning the lottery every week for the rest of your life than the phoenix ever becoming lord of the dreads.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#250 - 2013-05-18 04:55:06 UTC
All you people whining about the Moros' slight nerf to tracking and range should just go biomass yourselves. Its still going to be the best dread around unless the enemy has an obscene amount of neuts.

Its simply hilarious how easily many of you start raging and crying. "Fozzie favors this! Fozzie favors that! Hes an Amarr fanboy for buffing the Rev and nerfing the Op dread!"

Moros will still be OP, but not by as much as it used to. Its also still way ahead of the Rev even after this nerf. I actually laughed abit when i saw it didnt get a direct damage nerf at all.

What exactly are you whining about? Your Moros wont be as OP for Dread Blapping anymore?? It will still hit webbed and painted BS and T3s at range, dont worry. You'll still be able to notalent faceroll 'pvp'.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#251 - 2013-05-18 04:56:02 UTC
Oh yeah about the phoenix, how about dropping the kinetic bonus and swap with a Rate of fire or damage bonus to all, so its not limited to being great against weak kinetic pos.

Also buff the citadel missiles a bit or give the ship a bonus to Explosion Velocity.

Phoenix is still lacking alot and is the worst of the 4 dreads by far.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#252 - 2013-05-18 04:59:08 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
I can see people throwing Flare Catalysts on their Phoenix xD.

The Phoenix will no longer suck against normal Capitals!!!

I think it will become the best situationally because its 12,000DPS with 147.5K Alpha at 60km

Having a couple of Flare Catalysts will fully apply damage to moving supers otherwise Flare Catalysts are not necessary against sieged or triaged caps.


Prefer it to get buffed so it can use the rig slots for tank, which it definitely needs.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#253 - 2013-05-18 05:00:24 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
"CCP HOW DARE YOU BALANCE DREADS???? I TRAINED INTO THE OP ONE BECAUSE I AM A FOTM CHASER AND NOW ANOTHER ONE IS THE OP ONE AND YOU RUINED EVERYTHING!"

- This thread.


This. Still the best and youre still whining because it isnt 'best enough!' for your 'wasted time' and imaginary spacemuneys.
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#254 - 2013-05-18 05:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
It's Phoenix time!Big smile
My favorite dread, although it was kinda suck Big smile

Now i'm thinking to return from the highsec to try it... Roll And from STO...Lol
...No, very unlikely i'll do this in the near future. But i've waited for that for a long time back then...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Icarus Narcissus
Pathway to the Next
The Revenant Order
#255 - 2013-05-18 05:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Icarus Narcissus
All this whining about Moroi being able to blap POSes and we forget our other prey:

IHubs, TCUs, Outposts, and POCOs (when we're really bored and ballsy)

Moros will still be the best when it comes to non-POS bashing --- let the other races have their own squabbles about taking down POSes the best. Moros will still dominate the other structure shoots.

Edit: also, we're still pretty good at shooting POSes if we fit TCs with Optimal scripts
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#256 - 2013-05-18 05:31:40 UTC
Removed some off topi posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#257 - 2013-05-18 05:45:00 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
if you are gonna nerf the moros then nerf the moros, don't make a useless ship. I haven't done the math but seriously...everyone has a moros because it's the best dread...now everyone is gonna have to get rid of them with no buyers?...great

Refine them :troll:
Alas, you wouldnt be able to refine your motherships when it finally happens :trolololo:
If you wanted a serious answer, you could actually do the math and see that Moros is still the best dread. It sports the best DPS, and I was told that it's all that matters, right? Right?
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#258 - 2013-05-18 05:51:44 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Fly caldari, then you wont have to worry about any nerfs, most of their ships already are the worst in game, so it can only get better.. Wait, nevermind.. They have been sucking for years.

Just dont train for Tengu. You have been warned!
Misaka Todako
Close Proximity
#259 - 2013-05-18 06:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Misaka Todako
Hi CCP!

I know you guys are busy and doing a lot of awesome stuff to fix ships, but maybe give the Leviathan some love?
- Torps aren't overly viable since they have no falloff, and it's very easy to get bounced out of pos shot range. Since Titans already have to keep a wider bearth due to their giant collision radius, it's basically not possible to use them reliably, and packing a set of cruises with you burns most of your SMA. (Assuming you're even in refit range after the magical bump fest happens)
- We have no utility high
- Missiles can't hit stuff smaller than a moon
- We're heavily bonused into Kinetic, meaning we're totally ineffective against anything that's hardened against it. (Do they even make non-kinetic citadel missiles?)

While I realize there are other issues with Titans, I hope in this quick weapons balance pass, you could tweak the levi a little bit and give us something to chew on until a more complete balance pass hits titans.

Thanks!
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#260 - 2013-05-18 06:49:30 UTC
Exelent change, it's not enough to balance the op Moros, but it's a first step.

The Tears Must Flow