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EVE Solo Players
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#181 - 2013-05-20 14:51:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I have played EvE since 2003. I think I have been in maybe 2 small gangs with Privateers and perhaps 5 large fleets with a null alliance in that time. It's not that I don't like people really, it's more that I feel crowded by more than just me in a gang or fleet :) ok it's probably the not liking people thing.

it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.

Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.

And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.


I did not know Privateers were born off like this. I appreciate your contribution to EvE!

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Nerva Auris
Doomheim
#182 - 2013-05-20 15:06:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.

Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.

And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.



You should ask CCP to put those rose-tinted glasses in the NEX Store.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#183 - 2013-05-20 15:12:08 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Eve is a multiplayer game but it's also a sandbox game, and one which reflects real world society quite closely. People choose to work on their own in the game just as people choose to work alone in the real world. I see no problem with that.


Excellent, short, clean and direct

Here, for you

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#184 - 2013-05-20 15:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Nerva Auris wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.

Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.

And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.



You should ask CCP to put those rose-tinted glasses in the NEX Store.

I'll do that for you.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#185 - 2013-05-20 17:00:52 UTC
There's lots of group content out there but because of current mechanics which limit player interaction, people will continue farming this content in the most efficient way possible. If you can get all of the rewards a group can by yourself, why would you bother grouping up and dealing with additional overhead?

Many players who prefer playing in a group are pigeonholed into playing solo (or quit) because they are required to in order to participate in group content. That's not how the game should work, in a sandbox game you should be able to make a living doing whatever you prefer doing, whether it's solo mining, group activities like Incursions, or ship combat with other players.

Whether it's through buffing existing group gameplay or creating new group gameplay and making solo gameplay comparatively worse off, or by making solo gameplay more risky or reducing the reward, ultimately solo play will be nerfed in order to bring it in line with the rest of the game.

It doesn't mean that solo gameplay should be destroyed completely or to get people to "play my way". It just needs to be tweaked to make the game more balanced for all styles of gameplay.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#186 - 2013-05-20 17:22:05 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
There's lots of group content out there but because of current mechanics which limit player interaction, people will continue farming this content in the most efficient way possible. If you can get all of the rewards a group can by yourself, why would you bother grouping up and dealing with additional overhead?

Many players who prefer playing in a group are pigeonholed into playing solo (or quit) because they are required to in order to participate in group content. That's not how the game should work, in a sandbox game you should be able to make a living doing whatever you prefer doing, whether it's solo mining, group activities like Incursions, or ship combat with other players.

Whether it's through buffing existing group gameplay or creating new group gameplay and making solo gameplay comparatively worse off, or by making solo gameplay more risky or reducing the reward, ultimately solo play will be nerfed in order to bring it in line with the rest of the game.

It doesn't mean that solo gameplay should be destroyed completely or to get people to "play my way". It just needs to be tweaked to make the game more balanced for all styles of gameplay.


Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? Shocked
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#187 - 2013-05-20 17:26:03 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? Shocked


No, he's describing the nerf to solo content that has already begun.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#188 - 2013-05-20 17:36:23 UTC
if by nerfing solo play you mean the bash X exploration games then I'm quite fine with that.

but if you touch my hound I will send torpedos.

forums.  serious business.
Adunh Slavy
#189 - 2013-05-20 17:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
CCP should stop worrying about "group content" frankly. Make tools groups can use, fix the group tools that exist (corp roles, poses, more POS sizes from stupid huge to personal size, etc). How about some new tools, like muti-player piloted ships, industrial ships that do something industrial besides haul stuff around, stocks, bonds, even player created currencies.

CCP should focus on "big goals" and then spread the resources and tasks to accomplish these goals far and wide over the map. Each of these resources and goals should require some amount of specialization. Groups will want to accomplish these goals and will team up on their own, or utilize, via the market, the skills and resources of others.

Big goals could be colonization (building gates as eluded to at fanfest), terraforming planets and moons, building low sec and high sec outposts. Vanity (Such as 'collect enough precious metals to make your null sec outpost shine like a mirror') People will do that kind of thing if it is available and gives enough "oooh ahhh" points to nerdy space geeks like our selves.

Goals matter. Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#190 - 2013-05-20 17:54:39 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
CCP should stop worrying about "group content" frankly. Make tools groups can use, fix the group tools that exist (corp roles, poses, more POS sizes from stupid huge to personal size, etc). How about some new tools, like muti-player piloted ships, industrial ships that do something industrial besides haul stuff around, stocks, bonds, even player created currencies.

CCP should focus on "big goals" and then spread the resources and tasks to accomplish these goals far and wide over the map. Each of these resources and goals should require some amount of specialization. Groups will want to accomplish these goals and will team up on their own, or utilize, via the market, the skills and resources of others.

Big goals could be colonization (building gates as eluded to at fanfest), terraforming planets and moons, building low sec and high sec outposts. Vanity (Such as 'collect enough precious metals to make your null sec outpost shine like a mirror') People will do that kind of thing if it is available and gives enough "oooh ahhh" points to nerdy space geeks like our selves.

Goals matter. Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.


Absolutely agree!

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Six Six Six
Doomheim
#191 - 2013-05-20 18:23:06 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? Shocked


No, he's describing the nerf to solo content that has already begun.



Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2013-05-20 18:33:16 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? Shocked

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Literally hundreds of thousands of carebears will unsubscribe if CCP dare do anything to affect solo L4 play in high-sec or "bottoms-up" ISK generation in null-sec.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#193 - 2013-05-20 18:47:02 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:
Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well.


I am extremely curious as to what examples you think provide parallels to this situation.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-05-20 19:15:21 UTC
It's not that people have a problem with solo players. Everyone is cool with that.

The problem is when solo players think that solo means "no one is allowed to interfere with me".

Then people tend to get a little bit testy.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#195 - 2013-05-20 19:30:37 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else.
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#196 - 2013-05-20 19:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
Varius Xeral wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:
Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well.


I am extremely curious as to what examples you think provide parallels to this situation.



There's other MMOs that have tried exactly the same sort of thing, namely altering game content or just adding content that can't be soloed. Result of course is those that do solo eventually just leave. There are a lot of people that solo in MMOs and the mistake is in not recognising those players. GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.

Now the question is how far does CCP intend to take it?

Are they trying to force people into player participation? If so that's likely to fail.




Storyline and side games (mini games) content would be one my concerns as that seems to suggest a move more towards a theme park rather than a sandbox.

Talking of sandboxes, trying to force people to participate with others in the game directly is not sandboxish.



Although I think trying to force people to group is a mistake, my main concern at this time is of this game slowly turning into a just another theme park.



Edit: One thing I hope never gets into EVE and that's achievement points.
Noc Norris
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2013-05-20 19:37:13 UTC
I been playing solo for awhile at times not by choice but by situations in RL,

I log on all sorts of times during the night or day so 1. I don"t have a preferred time zone. 2. my kids have sports summer activities after school activities... I am retired so I try to make in almost every day at least just to say hi worst case scenario.

But a specific corp or alliance has so many activities, roams that take hours to just patrol and kill a few to none frigates. so I try not to disrespect them by just logging on and not joining their fleets. as I wish I could find a friendly corp that I can log on do roams and have fun pve and pvp wise be part of the eve life if not to just get out of my RL and enjoy it with friends on comms.

So I stay to myself try incursions,or do a lot of level 4 missions or just log in chat skills up and log off. I do wish I can play with friends but until then its solo life for me and funny how some might not solo pilots but alas we have no choice. I've done the mothership for over a year thing, the alliance for few years in 0.0 space the pvp stuff now I just want to chill and have fun without being told I have to do this or that or be on at a certain time or get a credit check before I can log on comms.

My main is closing in on 100 mil sp all mainly 99% combat and I find solo play relaxing at times without the bs of other players or politics and I wish all solo'ers a salute and fly safe.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#198 - 2013-05-20 19:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Varius Xeral
Six Six Six wrote:
GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.


So GW2 is your only example? Can you provide anything suggesting some link between tangible increases in the ratio of solo to non-solo content and a decline in subscriptions, activity, projected growth or anything of the sort?

So far this is all sounding like you pulled it completely from your butt. You made a pretty bold and specific statement, I'd like to see even a shred of support. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that so far you might have as well claimed that sasquatches are really an ancient race of martian refugees.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#199 - 2013-05-20 20:00:29 UTC
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
It's not that people have a problem with solo players. Everyone is cool with that.

The problem is when solo players think that solo means "no one is allowed to interfere with me".

Then people tend to get a little bit testy.


I agree 100% with this. The more creative solo player will adopt a more active attitude such as:

"Hmmm... EVE is a big game with lots of choices... there's 100 different ways I can mess with you and make you poor, cry or **** blood. Which method will give me the most amusement value today ?"

Nothing wrong with solo players. Just some of them need to realize they aren't alone in "the world".

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#200 - 2013-05-20 20:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
Varius Xeral wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:
GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.


So GW2 is your only example? Can you provide anything suggesting some link between tangible increases in the ratio of solo to non-solo content and a decline in subscriptions, activity, projected growth or anything of the sort?

So far this is all sounding like you pulled it completely from your butt. You made a pretty bold and specific statement, I'd like to see even a shred of support. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that so far you might have as well claimed that sasquatches are really an ancient race of martian refugees.




I've played GW2, I take it you haven't. I know what they promised at the beginning and they didn't keep to their promise, a lot of the new content is for guilds (5 or more people iirc) silly retro side games and a living story which seems to be mainly about collecting achievement points.

Played 10 other MMOs and some of those did similar things at least where group content was concerned.

Before posting what you replied to I already checked your previous posts in this thread to see where you stood and on this we're at opposite ends of the argument. So I'm not going to waste my time getting the information you want. If you really want that information then I'm sure you could find it. But then again what figures will a game's company release in terms of membership, those playing, active accounts or just number of accounts. But in the last two months of playing there was a noticeable drop in players on the server I was on.

Although solo content is not that much of a concern to me personally where this game is concerned I still think a move to try and force people to group is a big mistake.

Like I said though my main concern is this game possibly just becoming another theme park.




Edit: see the forums still eat the posts, just as well I save everything.


Edit2:
The other thing to remember with GW2, there's no subscription so the figures you ask for will be meaningless as people not playing will still have active accounts.