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EVE Solo Players

Author
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#141 - 2013-05-03 13:05:34 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?


Logically, there's no reason for them to object. It is a sandbox game, and thus allows everyone to play any way they wish.

However, when your playstyle doesn't conform to someone else's idea of what you should play like, they will likely raise a stink about it. As far as EVE goes, the most common example is PvPers complaining about people who don't want to fight them (hi-seccers, wcs lovers, etc.), who are constantly trying to change the game so that other people have no choice but to do what the PvPers want (the usual "remove highsec, remove local, blah blah, though I happen to agree with remove local because it is simply idiotic, even the most carebear of games doesn't have such an insane intel tool).

And this is not unique to EVE, not by a long shot. You can see it in literally every other genre. If you try to play defensively (aka turtle) in Starcraft, you will get yelled at. Just as you'll get yelled at for doing a cheap early rush (zergling push, for example). In an FPS game, such as BF3, I got yelled at for playing Recon, because I would be "sitting back and sniping", even though I was moving with the front line with an SMG and throwing motion sensors to assist the team's push effort. Same goes with literally every other genre.


Bottom line - when a game allows you flexibility, and the playstyle you choose conflicts with someone else's idea of what you should be doing, they WILL try to change your playstyle. Either directly, or by manipulating the developers into making your chosen playstyle nonviable. And it is very, very, very., very common.


I just wanted to underline this bit of tin-foil hattery. Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between people caring about how you play and people commenting to you that how you play is something they find to be boring or cheap. Can you even discern the difference in the two?

It seems to me that you are simply seeing that which you want to (and that which fits with your per-concieved notions). It's a very paranoid way to exist really.

Back when I played Mechwarrior 4 , people called me a "Brawler" and some of them suggested I just didn't like the way that snipers played. It was non-sense, who really cares about any of that. I thought some of the long ranged weapons were overpowered (even now, thinking the words "Clan Extended Range Large laser" makes me itch lol), but it was jsut amazing to me how much some of those players PERSONALIZED every comment I would make as if I were somehow going to come through their computers, snatch their keyboards and physiclally prevent them from sniping.

If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#142 - 2013-05-03 13:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Zen Dad
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
[quote=Davis TetrisKing]So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?


If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say.


Don't forget to CONFORM folks..........it's what EVE is all about?.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2013-05-03 14:16:28 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Jenn aSide wrote:

This guy is the GD poster boy for victimization.


When unable to form a cogent counter argument, the loser will usually start with ad hominem logical fallacy (attack the person rather than the argument) .

This is frequently followed by strawmanning (construct something that may "look something like" the original argument, but is easier to destroy).


Jenn aSide wrote:

Everyone who says "they just want easy kills" is in fact saying "those guys are big meanies and they suck so they must care about what I do because I'm the only person who really exists". When you tell them that no one cares about what they do, they reject it, because how can reality NOT be centered on them?


In this case, not even a particularly good straw-man.



Jenn aSide wrote:

Really Tarawa, what pare of non consensual pvp game is hard for you to understand? You don't have to consent to pvp or "go find people who want pvp" in EVE, you just have to find someone IN SPACE if you want pvp. That is the way EVE is and has always been.


Here we see a variation of the True Scottsman logical fallacy. Attempting to define your opinion into truth. You attempt to define EVE as a game with the sole aspect of being about non-consensual PvP, and nothing else.

And yet, CCP has gone to great lengths to assist those like me, that want to minimize our PvP interactions. They give us high sec, CONCORD, sec status, no insurance for suicide gank, ability to place bounties, sell kill rights. They buffed the tanks on exhumers. They give us NPC corps to allow us to escape war decs.

Yes, we can always be suicide ganked. However, CCP has constructed game mechanics designed to keep that to a minimum.

AND, along with non-consensual PvP come non-consensual-non-PvP. You can suicide gank me. I can make that unprofitable for you, and ensure that the only way you will ever get a kill of me, is the suicide gank.

I can't make you not gank me, and you can't make me come out of station and fight when it won't be a gank situation.


Jenn aSide wrote:

And yet, knowing how EVE is (and knowing what kind of people play EVE), you and your like still choose to play while complaining about the basic nature of the game. It's like going swimming and complaining about the wetness of water.


Show me a complaint I made. I was simply explaining why some people hate solo play styles. They think they should be able to force me to come out and fight. THEY complain about things like NPC corps, that let me go on playing the game while ignoring them.

It is the people that demand the removal of NPC corps that do not understand what EVE is. It is a game designed and built to accommodate MANY play styles, where I can't prevent suicide gank, but you can't force me to fight in a non-gank situation.



Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm not much into pvp these days and when i was participating in it i mostly did it to help my corp/alliance out, I've never been a pvp junky like some people, but my GOD man, listen to yourself. EVE is PVP game, you should accept that as I've done and move on.


And yet, it was reiterated again at the most recent fanfest, that CCP considers solo play to be a legitimate play style that they acknowledge and support.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2013-05-03 14:26:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

A better way to ask is "why not ju8st stay in an NPC corp?".

To me the answer is simple: The NPC corp scheme is one of the most anti-EVE things EVE has going. It's no-cost (or at least very low cost) isolation against interaction (such as war decs).



You clearly misunderstand what EVE is.

EVE is not only ships violently trading ammo in space. That is ONE aspect of the game, but far form the only aspect.

EVE is a sandbox, designed and built to accommodate many play styles. The interactions are not limited to boom. There is also the interaction of competing to harvesting limited resources. The interactions of the market. The interactions of scarce resources, like station offices, manufacturing lines, narrow profit margins.

AND, one of the keys to a good game is that for every offense, there is a defense. No one gets to have their way all the time.

The NPC corp mechanism is VERY EVE. It is the defense to high sec war decs of industrialists.

You can try to make me fight a war against you.... and I can drop to NPC corp... then you can suicide gank me... but I can fit my ships in ways that makes sure it costs you more than it costs me.



And finally, without NPC corps, high sec war decs could and would force many carebears to simply stop playing the game. CCP is not going to allow one group of players to drive other players out of the game and out of the revenue stream. CCP will create and maintain whatever game mechanics that are needed to ensure that all play styles are accommodated.

You can keep whining about NPC corps, but CCP is going to continue to ignore you.... because is NOT ONLY about non-consensual PVP. It is about accommodating many different play styles in a sand box environment.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2013-05-03 14:35:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between people caring about how you play and people commenting to you that how you play is something they find to be boring or cheap. Can you even discern the difference in the two?


Did you ever think that maybe we don't care what you think about our play style?

You find my play style to be boring and cheap? Well, go play against someone that plays the way you enjoy playing against.

I.e. You want to PvP? GOOD FOR YOU! Go PvP against someone that wants to PvP, and stop coming on the forums to whine about all the things that allow me to play in a way that you don't like.

You can't FORCE me to play the game, so you can't FORCE me to play it in a way that you enjoy playing against.



Oh.. but those guys that play the way you enjoy playing against... they're good at PvP and you're as likely to lose as win.. and who wants that? Better to come to the forums and whine about how easy it is for the suck PvPers to avoid being your victim.



You say I'm the poster child for victim hood? Why? Because I'm winning! The game lets me play the way I enjoy playing... while you are forced to come to the forums to whine about how NPC corp game mechanic is denying you all the easy kills... WHAAAAA



Loser!
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#146 - 2013-05-03 14:58:13 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between people caring about how you play and people commenting to you that how you play is something they find to be boring or cheap. Can you even discern the difference in the two?


Did you ever think that maybe we don't care what you think about our play style?


That's a lie and you know it. You are ALWAYS talking about it.
Quote:

You find my play style to be boring and cheap? Well, go play against someone that plays the way you enjoy playing against.

I.e. You want to PvP? GOOD FOR YOU! Go PvP against someone that wants to PvP, and stop coming on the forums to whine about all the things that allow me to play in a way that you don't like.

You can't FORCE me to play the game, so you can't FORCE me to play it in a way that you enjoy playing against.



Oh.. but those guys that play the way you enjoy playing against... they're good at PvP and you're as likely to lose as win.. and who wants that? Better to come to the forums and whine about how easy it is for the suck PvPers to avoid being your victim.



You say I'm the poster child for victim hood? Why? Because I'm winning! The game lets me play the way I enjoy playing... while you are forced to come to the forums to whine about how NPC corp game mechanic is denying you all the easy kills... WHAAAAA



Loser!


Same thing I ask others like you, can you not see how crazy all that makes you sound? Especially the "winning" thing you just said (are you Charlie Sheen?). Why would I want to force you to do anything. I don't give a rats posterior about you or anyone you know lol.

And yes, you are the poster child for victimhood, you can't deal with the idea of someone messing with you in game so you post with this alt (do't try to deny it, you've admitted as much several times).

Again, YOU, LHA Tarawa, have chosen to be a part of a non-consensual pvp game, that was your choice, yet at every turn you rail against non-consensual pvp. No one is saying you should pvp (i don't lol), but by playing eve (and undocking) you CONSENT to pvp should someone else choose to bring it to you because EVE is a non-consensual pvp game.

Can you honestly not take any kind of responsibility for you own choices? Is it truly that painful to you to do so? Can you not see that your problem is YOU, and not the rest of us?

If you cannot, the sadness I feel for you bro has nothing to do with this video game.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#147 - 2013-05-03 15:05:03 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
[quote=Davis TetrisKing]So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?


If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say.


Don't forget to CONFORM folks..........it's what EVE is all about?.


So i guess you missed the other 2 elements of what I said (ie stop playing if it bothers you so much or stop caring about what other people think about what you do?

But yea, since you have a problem with the idea, I'll tell you, conformity (by choice) is an option.

I have chosen to conform to how things are in real life and in game many times, at other times I've chosen not to for my own reasons.

The habitual non-conformist like you, on the other had, just finds stuff the he can non-conform to (lol) simply so that he can feel like some kind of rebel.

EVE has many of you types, people who don't really like EVE and really would like games like Star Trek Online (no real death penalty, no non-consensual pvp, and a game that celebrates solo play and makes all interactions consensual), but who chose to keep playing EVE (a harsh non-consensual pvp game) because here they can be the edgy non-conformist solo rebel fighting against the forces of injustice and Goon-tyranny.

Just tell the truth about yourself, then i won't have to do it for you lol.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#148 - 2013-05-03 15:05:09 UTC
I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon.
Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also.
It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game.
Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances.
Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#149 - 2013-05-03 15:14:52 UTC

Quote:

Here we see a variation of the True Scottsman logical fallacy. Attempting to define your opinion into truth. You attempt to define EVE as a game with the sole aspect of being about non-consensual PvP, and nothing else.


And now you lying again. When did i say EVE is about one thing? The non-consensual pvp aspect of EVE is universal yes, but it is not all there is to EVE.

We need a new name for this, i'll call it the Tarawa Fallacy lol.

Quote:

And yet, CCP has gone to great lengths to assist those like me, that want to minimize our PvP interactions. They give us high sec, CONCORD, sec status, no insurance for suicide gank, ability to place bounties, sell kill rights. They buffed the tanks on exhumers. They give us NPC corps to allow us to escape war decs.

Yes, we can always be suicide ganked. However, CCP has constructed game mechanics designed to keep that to a minimum.


None of whcih changes the nature of the game. until weapons magically stop working in High Sec, EVE is a non-consensual pvp game

Quote:

AND, along with non-consensual PvP come non-consensual-non-PvP. You can suicide gank me. I can make that unprofitable for you, and ensure that the only way you will ever get a kill of me, is the suicide gank.

I can't make you not gank me, and you can't make me come out of station and fight when it won't be a gank situation.


Underlinded the part that demonstrates that EVE is a non-consensual pvp game.


Jenn aSide wrote:

And yet, knowing how EVE is (and knowing what kind of people play EVE), you and your like still choose to play while complaining about the basic nature of the game. It's like going swimming and complaining about the wetness of water.


Show me a complaint I made. I was simply explaining why some people hate solo play styles. They think they should be able to force me to come out and fight. THEY complain about things like NPC corps, that let me go on playing the game while ignoring them.

It is the people that demand the removal of NPC corps that do not understand what EVE is. It is a game designed and built to accommodate MANY play styles, where I can't prevent suicide gank, but you can't force me to fight in a non-gank situation.[/quote]

Show you a complaint you made? Do i really need to dig up your own posts where you kept saying EVE wouldn't die if High Sec were made perfectly safe? Your whole speil on here has been about how much you dislike pvp, no one can make you pvp yadda yadda.

Eve has featured non-consensual pvp since day one. You started playing after day one, and yet you seem to HATE a core aspect of the game. Yet you keep playing, but somehow, people like me who don't pvp but accept the nature of the game are the wrong ones?

You're beyond incredible.


Quote:

And yet, it was reiterated again at the most recent fanfest, that CCP considers solo play to be a legitimate play style that they acknowledge and support.


And who said solo play isn't legitimate? Can you read?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#150 - 2013-05-03 15:15:32 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon.
Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also.
It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game.
Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances.
Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.


Dude, i'm running out of tinfoil.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2013-05-03 15:18:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Same thing I ask others like you, can you not see how crazy all that makes you sound? Especially the "winning" thing you just said (are you Charlie Sheen?).


It's so easy to get your goat.



Jenn aSide wrote:

Why would I want to force you to do anything. I don't give a rats posterior about you or anyone you know lol.

And yes, you are the poster child for victimhood, you can't deal with the idea of someone messing with you in game so you post with this alt (do't try to deny it, you've admitted as much several times).


You totally miss the point, don't you.

No one messes with me in game, because I use the game mechanics provided by CCP, along with my own casual play style, to minimize the opportunity, profitability and likelihood that someone will bother.

I'm playing a game that I enjoy playing, in a way I enjoy playing it, while denying kills to people that think the game should be about getting lots of easy kills from players like me.

Not only an I getting to play the game in a way I enjoy, BUT at the same time, I'm ruining your day by ensuring that you don't get to play with me in the way that you enjoy playing.

I then get to come on the forums, and rub your nose it in, while easily defeating your weak internets skills with my superior critical think skills.


Jenn aSide wrote:

Again, YOU, LHA Tarawa, have chosen to be a part of a non-consensual pvp game, that was your choice, yet at every turn you rail against non-consensual pvp. No one is saying you should pvp (i don't lol), but by playing eve (and undocking) you CONSENT to pvp should someone else choose to bring it to you because EVE is a non-consensual pvp game.


Link a single post where I suggested that suicide ganking should be removed fro the game. You can't, becuase I've never done so.

It is a non-consensual PvP game, but the game also provides mechanics that allow me to minimize the probability of non-consensual PvP to the point that... well.... I've not lost a ship since returning to the game 9 months ago.


Jenn aSide wrote:

Can you honestly not take any kind of responsibility for you own choices? Is it truly that painful to you to do so? Can you not see that your problem is YOU, and not the rest of us?

If you cannot, the sadness I feel for you bro has nothing to do with this video game.



The problem is, I choose to play the game I enjoy playing it, rather that the way you want me to. And that angers you to no end.


Get over it. Stop looking at carebears as potential easy kills, and figure out a way to stop sucking at PvP so that you can actually get kills against players that are ready and willing to fight.



Yes, I'm baiting you. And you are soooooo falling for it.

I win, you lose.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#152 - 2013-05-03 15:20:12 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon.
Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also.
It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game.
Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances.
Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.


Sorry about your hurricane nerf, bro.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#153 - 2013-05-03 15:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zen Dad
Jenn aSide wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
[quote=Davis TetrisKing]So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?


If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say.


Don't forget to CONFORM folks..........it's what EVE is all about?.


So i guess you missed the other 2 elements of what I said (ie stop playing if it bothers you so much or stop caring about what other people think about what you do?

But yea, since you have a problem with the idea, I'll tell you, conformity (by choice) is an option.

I have chosen to conform to how things are in real life and in game many times, at other times I've chosen not to for my own reasons.

The habitual non-conformist like you, on the other had, just finds stuff the he can non-conform to (lol) simply so that he can feel like some kind of rebel.

EVE has many of you types, people who don't really like EVE and really would like games like Star Trek Online (no real death penalty, no non-consensual pvp, and a game that celebrates solo play and makes all interactions consensual), but who chose to keep playing EVE (a harsh non-consensual pvp game) because here they can be the edgy non-conformist solo rebel fighting against the forces of injustice and Goon-tyranny.

Just tell the truth about yourself, then i won't have to do it for you lol.



The truth is that I think you are sponsored or approved by CCP and the Blob to stalk the forums and harangue any non - Blob player who even hint's that 'solo' is good.

Your carefully packaged language is always just a couple degrees below the max boiling point the Devs will allow. Your job is to derail any threads that you and your type (oh sorry -- using your language now - see - it's not nice is it) find remotely threatening.

Now we will probably be having a Dev come to your rescue .
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#154 - 2013-05-03 15:37:50 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:


The problem is, I choose to play the game I enjoy playing it, rather that the way you want me to. And that angers you to no end.


Get over it. Stop looking at carebears as potential easy kills, and figure out a way to stop sucking at PvP so that you can actually get kills against players that are ready and willing to fight.



Yes, I'm baiting you. And you are soooooo falling for it.

I win, you lose.


What is wrong with you that you need to believe that others care about what you do? Hell,I haven't killed anyhting but blood raiders and sansha for a long time now. Are you a Blood Raider? (if so, im gonna get ya).

i'm just pointing out how stupid it all is. No one wants you to stop playing a certain way, and the fact that you think this means you could use some IRL help man, seriously.

You see, i can see through your lie, you aren't baiting anyone, you actually do think that way and you know it even if you're not willing to admit it. And you actually think you can "win" an internet forum?


When i am elected to the CSM (ie when malcanis' coup is complete and he stuffs the ballot boxes to get me in, just in time for me to get my passport to iceland), YOU (R Avatar) will be the 1st against the Wall (next to the door that won't open).
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#155 - 2013-05-03 15:41:14 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:



The truth is that I think you are sponsored or approved by CCP and the Blob to stalk the forums and harangue any non - Blob player who likes EVE the way it is.

Your carefully packaged language is always just a couple degrees below the max boiling point the Devs will allow. Your job is to derail any threads that you and your type (oh sorry -- using your language now - see - it's not nice is it) find remotely threatening.

Now we will probably having a Dev come to your rescue .


Crap, CCP Soundwave, the jig is up they are on to me! Beam me out, BEAM ME OUT!!!!!!!!

*garbled radio transmission*

WTF you mean EVE doesn't have Transporters and that I should GB2StarTrekOnline? Damn it, screwed again. That's the last time i take a job spying for CCP.

But seriously Zen, if you can't handle the truth, that's not my problem. I'm from Texas, i call em like I see em, and I see em as they are.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#156 - 2013-05-03 16:02:57 UTC
This thread looks like a shooting gallery.

I like it :)

The Tears Must Flow

Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#157 - 2013-05-03 16:22:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Zen Dad]


I'm from Texas, i call em like I see em, and I see em as they are.


You can always tell a Texan......... but you can't tell him much. Pirate
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#158 - 2013-05-03 17:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
maCH'EttE wrote:
I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon.
Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also.
It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game.
Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances.
Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.


That's not entirley true. Faction warfare has pelnty of solo PVP in low sec.

The reason for this is that you have to share you 25K LP ( or 15k LP) with whoever is in the plex at the time. So naturally people get all pissy when other people show up leading to alliance on alliance action on occasion. Therefore people tend to be alone in the plex's and you can get at them without having to be in a blob.

Although no longer active Adolf made thousands of kill mostly solo using a condor often times.

So its still there but limited to FW because of its mechanics.

[edit]

Actually I forgot this about Adolf. He uses throw away corps to kill his own FW alliance mates until the corp gets too low of relations with the Minmatar and is forced out of FW. Then he creates a new corp called something really weird and random as you see and repeats the process. Rather ingenious. He still kills opposing FW members as well though.

Still most of his kills were solo.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

xXxKONSHUxXx
Clan Shadow Wolf
Tactical Narcotics Team
#159 - 2013-05-03 17:26:02 UTC
Am I the only one who has a boner for RiotGirl...


anyways,


The point of eve is to make it what you want. You can be the lone ranger, but you will find warfare a challenge, the story will keep you entertained though. You can become an industrial giant, with or without others. The options go on, but like any world, its easier to not go alone. Learn to make friends, despise your enemies and even more importantly, make the world your own.
Bruce Kemp
Get A Life
#160 - 2013-05-03 18:13:27 UTC
Since 2004 i have flown in fleets of 250+, flown in gangs of 10/20/30 ppl and flown in pvp solo.

As long as your playing eve your way, that all that matters.

Smile