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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#1061 - 2013-05-16 22:01:27 UTC
M'aak'han wrote:
Yes, I'd like to know too if the probes teleporting back in the cargo is a defect or a feature.


From what was said it sounds like a feature. I guess CCP doesn't realize that people actually have unique tactics when it comes to probing, or they don't like said tactics.


Domanique Altares wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.


Really. Who might they be?

I'll await your list of probing superstars.


I'am guessing he was being sarcastic.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1062 - 2013-05-16 22:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!"
2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...

Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration).


7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :)



(hint, you have 8 probes)



everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that includes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his what's the point of astro 5, also this 8 probe formation gimmick is really justa single SUPER PROBE, its a single entity when all is said and done.

and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.


honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1063 - 2013-05-16 22:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
There needs to be an option to launch single probes by activating the launcher. You should only dump 8 probes instantly by clicking one of the preset formations. This is a must.

Telling players to launch 8 and deactivate four, for example, is a workaround for shoddy coding, not a solution.

Brainless Bimbo wrote:
everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5

and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.


honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder

What's the point of astrometrics 5? The skill bonuses, obviously.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#1064 - 2013-05-16 22:28:52 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:



everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5

and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.


honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder


Astrometrics skill no longer is about amount of probes launched.

Skill at operating long range scanners.

+5% scan strength per level.

-5% max scan deviation per level.

-5% scan probe scan time per level.

The 2nd part I do agree with.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1065 - 2013-05-16 22:29:01 UTC
Sulvorati Kunoki wrote:

I have no problem scanning everything with 5 probes on TQ and I'm pretty f''ing hot at it due to practice over three or four years. I am talking about pve scanning in a wormhole here. The people who are using 8 probes are doing different pvp related things i imagine.

Nope. You may think you are fast but you are not, if you only use 5 probes. While you may achieve similar speed in resolving a single signature, you will definitely need more time sweeping an entire system with ~5 or more sigs if you do not use 8 or at least 7 probes. This is a fact, because with 5 probes you cannot cover enough space and need to upsize your probes after almost every resolved signature to find the next one, then downsize again to pin it down.

With the new system where all probes are started at once, using 8 will be even more superior because it does not take more time to launch the additional probes and set them up, which currently can make using 8 probes inefficient if there are only very few sigs in the system (for example, if I just want to scan the new static after the old one has despawned or was rolled, I often use only 5 probes as well.)

It is true however that those who only used 5 or even 4 probes (lol) should be allowed to continue their inefficient ways so we good probers can rightfully feel that we are superior players. I don't want everyone to be forced to be good, people have a right to suck at EVE.

.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1066 - 2013-05-16 22:32:18 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:


Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.


Really, where do they live?, what are they looking for?, do they make a living by exploration alone?, why do you consider them the best?, are you comparing them to your attempts?,

Are you confusing throwing every and the sink at the problem instead of using brain power and deductive skills to get the hit?

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#1067 - 2013-05-16 22:34:43 UTC
The exploration tutorial agent mission is broken

cannot access the date training site with civilian data analysor, and cant find and proof of data site
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1068 - 2013-05-16 22:36:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Brainless Bimbo wrote:



everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5

and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.


honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder


Astrometrics skill no longer is about amount of probes launched.

Skill at operating long range scanners.

+5% scan strength per level.

-5% max scan deviation per level.

-5% scan probe scan time per level.

The 2nd part I do agree with.


and that will will also now be achieved by fitting a mod, the other moveable deployable in game, drones, required lvl´s for more in space and you get mods to add to those skill based functions. (ok its just carriers but still)

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#1069 - 2013-05-16 22:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Domanique Altares wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.


Really. Who might they be?

I'll await your list of probing superstars.


Pretty much every serious Wormhole pilot and quite a few combat scanners. The idea with 8 probes is to both scan the current site AND search for the next site at the same time.
M'aak'han
C-7
#1070 - 2013-05-16 22:43:50 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
M'aak'han wrote:
Yes, I'd like to know too if the probes teleporting back in the cargo is a defect or a feature.


From what was said it sounds like a feature. I guess CCP doesn't realize that people actually have unique tactics when it comes to probing, or they don't like said tactics.



*screams of rage*
Wait... No one can hear me scream in space. Gah !!
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1071 - 2013-05-16 22:48:27 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.


Really. Who might they be?

I'll await your list of probing superstars.


Pretty much every serious Wormhole pilot and quite a few combat scanners. The idea with 8 probes is to both scan the current site AND search for the next site at the same time.


That´s with skills where you get many hits, personally with competition being as it is, i find the extra probes go to those other hits as place holders for quicker discovery while narrowing them down at the same time, only 5 are needed to pinpoint the target.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1072 - 2013-05-16 22:54:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
What's the point of astrometrics 5? The skill bonuses, obviously.

Except Astrometrics 4 is enough to scan down any exploration site, with any ship a T1 launcher and standard core scanner probes.
For Combat scanning astrometrics 4 in a Cov-Ops ship will do the trick.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1073 - 2013-05-16 23:18:20 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.


Really. Who might they be?

I'll await your list of probing superstars.


Pretty much every serious Wormhole pilot and quite a few combat scanners. The idea with 8 probes is to both scan the current site AND search for the next site at the same time.

And the 8-probe formations they gave us don't do that.
pierre arthos
Overload This
#1074 - 2013-05-16 23:21:16 UTC
When are the subsysytems for scanning T3's being rebalanced, so that anything other than an armour Loki is actually worth using as a scanning ship again? With the new midslot modules, you have basically made 3 out of 4 ships absolutely useless in this role. With one easy stroke, you have made it much more difficult to probe down, tackle and tank people. This will reduce w-hole pvp and fun for hundreds if not thousands of players.You guys really are experts at dropping the ball, aren't you?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1075 - 2013-05-17 00:07:17 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
What's the point of astrometrics 5? The skill bonuses, obviously.

Except Astrometrics 4 is enough to scan down any exploration site, with any ship a T1 launcher and standard core scanner probes.
For Combat scanning astrometrics 4 in a Cov-Ops ship will do the trick.

And Astrometrics 5 will help you do it faster, with more accuracy.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#1076 - 2013-05-17 00:52:46 UTC
Thanks for putting all the stuff you took out back in, but I still can't right click warp to 100% probed ships on grid.

http://i.imgur.com/2FkIDvD.jpg

PIZZA CEO
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#1077 - 2013-05-17 01:51:58 UTC
As I do not have Singularity set up on my computer, I have not partaken of the opportunity to test this new probing system. But what I am reading her is somewhat distressing. We MUST launch 8 probes? Why? As pointed out above, what is the difference between "8 required probes" and "one single probe". It's effectively the same thing. And it's not a good change.

I think what most people wanted when they asked for "probe formations" is the option of being able to use them. Not being forced to use them. I think most people were envisioning launching their probes, selecting some with the checkboxes, and then clicking a "formation button" - optimized for 4,5,6,7, or 8 probes. Or they could choose not to, and go about using their probes how they please. Kinda leaves the choice up to the pilot.

I understand that this is meant to help make probing easier for the novice. Which is nice and all. However, it shouldn't be done at the expense of versatility (efficient or not) used by more experienced players. That's taking away part of the sandbox nature of the game and leads to cries of "dumbing down" which may or may not be correct. A feature should be optional, not mandated.

P.S. - Plus this whole "auto-recover probes". If you can't lose your probes, why even bother having them? Just roll the cost into the module. Make it a module that just lets you move a magic probing dot around on the map. Cuz that's pretty much all it seems to be now. Hopefully I am completely wrong about all of this, and merely a victim of sensationalist kneejerk reactions on the forums.... but I doubt it.
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#1078 - 2013-05-17 02:13:43 UTC
in the new build, 8 probes require to launch them,

after you launch 8, you can call one back, but you cant launch it back until you recover 2 probe and left 6 outside

02:05:46 Notify You cannot launch Combat Scanner Probe I because you are already controlling 7 probes, as much as you have skill to.

1. 8 core probe out
2. recover one, cannot launch it back
3. recover one more, then you can launch 2 (combat) out

but now you being handicap if you want 7 + 1 probes out,

4. recover one combat probe, cannot launch core probe , the notification said you max 7 probes
5. recover one more combat probe, then you can launch 2 core probe back,



second thing is, now it's quite hard to get a octahedron formation
as the probe arrange with some angle between them
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1079 - 2013-05-17 03:18:14 UTC
The T2 mods need to have 'Astrometrics V' as a requirement.
AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#1080 - 2013-05-17 03:43:29 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
[(hint, you have 8 probes)


Hint, you wouldn't have had everyone mad and would have saved yourself time if you ran your ideas by the CSM and got feedback from actual players.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org