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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

First post First post First post
Author
Arriaz
TxivYawg
#1101 - 2013-05-17 14:39:06 UTC
Octoven wrote:


You still get a benefit to training them to 5, you need each specific skill to lvl 5 in order to fit the T2 scanning upgrade that accompanies it. EX: You need Rangefinding to 5 in orfer to fit a T2 Rangefinding Array


Why bother? Based on feedback scanning is easier and can be accomplished without scan bonused ships comfortably.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#1102 - 2013-05-17 14:50:40 UTC
Looking at the state of the feature and the calendar, it's probably best to postpone this scanner thing until some point release.

Basically if it would be just buggy you might have a tiny window to push the fixes and testing through in time, but since the issues are at design level, release with the expansion doesn't really look realistic at this point of time.

.

Haulie Berry
#1103 - 2013-05-17 15:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Arriaz wrote:
Octoven wrote:


You still get a benefit to training them to 5, you need each specific skill to lvl 5 in order to fit the T2 scanning upgrade that accompanies it. EX: You need Rangefinding to 5 in orfer to fit a T2 Rangefinding Array


Why bother? Based on feedback scanning is easier and can be accomplished without scan bonused ships comfortably.


People keep saying this as if it is a departure from the status quo on TQ. Scanning is easy and can be accomplished without scan bonused ships comfortably on tranquility, too. I use an ishtar with a meta0 launcher, standard probes, no gravcaps, no implants for lowsec exploration. I can't find the two weakest signature classes, neither of which contain any DED or unrated sites.

Except for the slight increase in strength from going from a 1.5 bonus to a 1.25^2, the fundamental difficulty of scanning is the same. The process itself is less tedious, the math - excepting that slight bump in strength - is the same.
Sir John Halsey
#1104 - 2013-05-17 15:25:01 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:


and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.



Why do i have to use the mouse?
I'll be a a happy chimp if they do it in a way so i can only use the keyboard. Touchpad sux.
Sir John Halsey
#1105 - 2013-05-17 15:34:44 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:

Regardless of your speed, it still takes what little thought process out of probing. To where it's move cluster over dot, shrink, shrink, hit. While setting up probes may seem tedious to some, it was really the only "challenge" that existed in probing.

Also don't be afraid to jump sizes, especially if you are past 15-20% str.



It was not a challenge. Just a boring repetitive action you had to do every time you jumped.

I burned out just because i had to do the same repetitive action for 5 months tens of times per day.
I have no idea how people can mine Shocked
Alouette Bistrot
Sentinel Event
404 Alliance Not Found
#1106 - 2013-05-17 16:04:59 UTC
I remember back when the mining ships were rebalanced, a few guys I knew that mined were super pissed about it because they had invested so much sp into their ships and now CCP was making it easier to get into barges and stuff. I'm not fully aware of the details since I don't mine, but two guys were pissed enough to unsub and quit eve.

I can see how CCP wants to make it easier for noobs to make that sweet mining cash but to him he felt like he threw away months of training for an edge. CCP took that edge away, lost those players, and in the end probably gained more new players by making mining easier to train into.

Now I'm seeing it happen with my characters, I have two perfect scanners, I need the edge to beat other scanners to wormholes during hole control maneuvers. I need deep space probes to quickly get relative sig strengths, more importantly I need to hope that I have these skills and that my opponents don't have them. This rebalancing is taking that edge away from me, not by nerfing my capabilities but by making lesser trained toons able to compete in this part of the game. When we go on siege ops in wormholes we bring scan alts, characters trained into being the best they can be because a lot rides on how fast you can resolve sigs.

Billions of ISK are won or lost based on the few seconds advantage the approximately 50 days of training gives a perfect scanning toon.

I, and many others, have invested the sp and time and cash money into getting that advantage. You call this an edge case, but to many players it is a standard part of play and it is being heavily diluted.

I'm not gonna quit, but I want CCP to know that you've pissed me off and I know I will get nothing for those months of wasted time, which if you think about it, is just extra revenue for you so I guess I'm happy for you and your companies bottom line.

I'm waiting for the offgrid boosters to be nerfed so I can feel like I lost those SP too.

To the noobs training your toons, think twice about training edge case max skills, the benefits you see in level Vs are probably gonna be lost when CCP makes that aspect of the game easier to do. Max leadership booster alt is like half a year, max scanner is like 2 months. I'll probably only max combat skills from now on.
Haulie Berry
#1107 - 2013-05-17 17:06:50 UTC
Alouette Bistrot wrote:


I'm waiting for the offgrid boosters to be nerfed so I can feel like I lost those SP too.



Holy ******* entitlement, batman.
Giorgos Rbs
Lead Head Inc
#1108 - 2013-05-17 18:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Giorgos Rbs
ISquishWorms wrote:
Giorgos Rbs wrote:
So i logged on again today to have a better look at the scanning.... things Shocked

Anomalies no longer appear on probe or on board scanner. Only way to access them is via this fancy new scanner. Furthermore, we only see the sig number (ABC-123) visually and we have to mouseover in order to know what kind of anomaly it is.

So... let me get this straight.. I am jumping into a wormhole with 20+ anomalies and... i am supposed to start looking around like a 10yr old with goggles to bookmark them? Then mouseover to tell the combat sites from the grav ladar... then look again to make sure i didn't miss any? Get serious ffs. Whoever designed this thing clearly doesn't play the same game as us



Sounds about right, CCP consider this an improvement. Don't you? Lol



Please rebuild the Jita monument. I wanna protest Blink
Giorgos Rbs
Lead Head Inc
#1109 - 2013-05-17 19:37:50 UTC
Ok.... besides the lack of the anomaly "list" similar to the one generated by the old on-board scanner - whats the use of it after patch? - and the inability to launch less probes than 8, with the shortcut fixes and all, PVE probing feels about right. I like how probes keep their formation and how you can resize the whole thing without extra shortcuts. It takes a lot less time :) Spread formation also looks "pathced" - for flat systems only, dont remove deep space probe! - Not sure if the new fixes made the dual 4set pvp probers happy with ergonomics... but its great for just probing signatures/

But seriously, bring our anomaly "list" back! OY! This is a game about... space data sheets!
Zelfor
Siberian Squad Academy
#1110 - 2013-05-17 20:48:15 UTC
Wormhole resident here...

Scanning is an integral part of living in wormholes, and I applaud an efforts to take the pain out of scanning while retaining the element of skill and reasonable effort.

The changes thus far are mostly good, but as others have mentioned, there are a few issues that stand out as confounding our standard operating methods when scanning in wormholes.

First: 8 probes. It's been mentioned, we should be able to choose the number we want.
Why? Some of us use two sets of probes, in different ways, at the same time, to scan. Sometimes we only want to do a quick scan with a single probe, or just want to keep an eye out for signatures.

The bigger issue:

I don't really mind launching 8 probes at once all that much, that's what I do 95% of the time.
I would like the checkboxes beside the probes back to de/select probes so that I can manipulate multiple groups of probes at once.

I highly object to having the two default probe formations be the only ones available. They are useful for some people, however, a 3rd option of launching them all in the same exact spot would make it orders of magnitude easier for us to configure the probe formations that we commonly use... not the ones you've given us. With the current available formations, probes are all over the place, and require a lot of clicking and mouse movement to reconfigure, not to mention the annoyance of having some probes at different altitudes, which makes it far harder to configure a nice 2D scanning pattern, as many of us like to use.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1111 - 2013-05-17 21:35:03 UTC
I've been testing in WH systems on sisi but I've noticed something odd, sorry if it's been raised before:

When scanning multiple signatures the results just seem to stop updating after a while. I hit scan, it cycles through but then the results don't change at all.

Am I doing something wrong?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1112 - 2013-05-17 21:36:12 UTC
Giorgos Rbs wrote:
Ok.... besides the lack of the anomaly "list" similar to the one generated by the old on-board scanner - whats the use of it after patch? - and the inability to launch less probes than 8, with the shortcut fixes and all, PVE probing feels about right. I like how probes keep their formation and how you can resize the whole thing without extra shortcuts. It takes a lot less time :) Spread formation also looks "pathced" - for flat systems only, dont remove deep space probe! - Not sure if the new fixes made the dual 4set pvp probers happy with ergonomics... but its great for just probing signatures/

But seriously, bring our anomaly "list" back! OY! This is a game about... space data sheets!

They already brought the anom list back. It's on the latest Sisi build.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1113 - 2013-05-17 21:38:52 UTC
Complex Potential wrote:
I've been testing in WH systems on sisi but I've noticed something odd, sorry if it's been raised before:

When scanning multiple signatures the results just seem to stop updating after a while. I hit scan, it cycles through but then the results don't change at all.

Am I doing something wrong?

Are you using the "show all" filter? In the last build on Sisi I was noticing that scan results don't update under that filter, but they do under others. I don't know if this got fixed or not, but I did file a bug report about it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1114 - 2013-05-17 21:40:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Complex Potential wrote:
I've been testing in WH systems on sisi but I've noticed something odd, sorry if it's been raised before:

When scanning multiple signatures the results just seem to stop updating after a while. I hit scan, it cycles through but then the results don't change at all.

Am I doing something wrong?

Are you using the "show all" filter? In the last build on Sisi I was noticing that scan results don't update under that filter, but they do under others. I don't know if this got fixed or not, but I did file a bug report about it.

I think I was using the cosmic sigs one but with anoms manually included. I'll have a play with other filters to see if it solves it. It's annoying because I was just getting the hang of things.
Jalequin
Jalequin Corporation
#1115 - 2013-05-17 22:00:56 UTC
The spread formation no longer has blindspots; excellent! Big smile

Mass Tests Videos: http://j.mp/14PE0uz - June 14th http://j.mp/10Db6ry - May 16th http://j.mp/19uIPJM - April 11th

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1116 - 2013-05-17 22:53:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
So you guys plan on putting 8 probes??? It in fact doesn't make that huge diference on probing you know? The 7 probes is a sweet way to get a good geometry, and for the feature to be balanced, 7 or 8 would have to have the same strenght. So logicaly I vote for 7, the simplier the better.

And how about the mini profession game?

I tried it, and it is pretty hard... There should be ways to customize our viruses, adding Strenght and Coerence...

Maybe a third atribute would be interesting... something like resilience... to reduce incoming damage.... or something like this...also in this the customization come in hand!

Also. Make Hostile NPCs spawn if failed to hack the site. so it locks until the npcs are killed. There should be a risk in hacking.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1117 - 2013-05-17 23:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Zelfor wrote:
Wormhole resident here...

Scanning is an integral part of living in wormholes, and I applaud an efforts to take the pain out of scanning while retaining the element of skill and reasonable effort.

The changes thus far are mostly good, but as others have mentioned, there are a few issues that stand out as confounding our standard operating methods when scanning in wormholes.

First: 8 probes. It's been mentioned, we should be able to choose the number we want.
Why? Some of us use two sets of probes, in different ways, at the same time, to scan. Sometimes we only want to do a quick scan with a single probe, or just want to keep an eye out for signatures.

The bigger issue:

I don't really mind launching 8 probes at once all that much, that's what I do 95% of the time.
I would like the checkboxes beside the probes back to de/select probes so that I can manipulate multiple groups of probes at once.

I highly object to having the two default probe formations be the only ones available. They are useful for some people, however, a 3rd option of launching them all in the same exact spot would make it orders of magnitude easier for us to configure the probe formations that we commonly use... not the ones you've given us. With the current available formations, probes are all over the place, and require a lot of clicking and mouse movement to reconfigure, not to mention the annoyance of having some probes at different altitudes, which makes it far harder to configure a nice 2D scanning pattern, as many of us like to use.


so you make 2 groups of 4? Wasn't it better then making it 9? so we could use 3 goups of 3? or 6 so we could use 2 groups of 3? it have the same effect doesn't it? If a triangulation need 3 probes, why 8? you can make 2 sets of 3 and an incomplete with 2....

If you want to make a quick scan with 1 probe, use the spread formation, it is better.

To have all of them in the same 2D use the spread formation.
Jalequin
Jalequin Corporation
#1118 - 2013-05-17 23:11:21 UTC
We should have a shortcut key option for the system scanner. Bind a key so that it runs a system scan.


Binding a key for the d-scan is also useful.

Mass Tests Videos: http://j.mp/14PE0uz - June 14th http://j.mp/10Db6ry - May 16th http://j.mp/19uIPJM - April 11th

M'aak'han
C-7
#1119 - 2013-05-17 23:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: M'aak'han
Alx Warlord wrote:

so you make 2 groups of 4? Wasn't it better then making it 9? so we could use 3 goups of 3? or 6 so we could use 2 groups of 3? it have the same effect doesn't it? If a triangulation need 3 probes, why 8? you can make 2 sets of 3 and an incomplete with 2....



You can't triangulate in space, you need a fourth value.

Triangulation works on a planet surface as the ground lets you know you're looking for something on the surface (or near surface, geologically speaking) or above. In space, if you use only 3 probes, you get 2 possible results: one "above" the plane the probes are in, and another "below". Thus the need of a set of 4 probes at least to eliminate ghost results.

Also, before people jump on me for using an improper term, the probe system uses trilateration, not triangulation. Smile
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1120 - 2013-05-18 02:37:22 UTC
I understand what's going on here, CCP, and it makes me sad. You have a release soon and you're trying to push your new shiny feature through without any analysis. You have a lot of feedback but you address only what's simple to fix and completely ignore everything else.

The worst thing is that you're breaking what currently works fine instead of improving it.

Putting together different points there are four main issues:
1) Downgrade of interface usefulness. Looks like you're working on it.
2) Suppressing or totally removing a lot of different use cases. Totally against the sandbox.
3) While aiming for "accessibility" current changes achieve only "bluntness".
4) High-end scanning which required a lot of investment in skills and implants will be accessible to almost everyone. The system is definitely unhealthy if there are no high goals.

In case you ask for examples - carefully read highly liked posts in this thread.