Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Heh...you're grasping now.

Nerfing would be like a lot of other ideas that want huge cap drain or limited timers or crap like that. This isn't that. The cloak itself remains exactly how it is now. Not nerfed.

By your logic, armor and shields are a nerf to guns and missiles and vice versa. I suppose such a circular argument serves your purpose nicely, though.

Just as armor is a counter to weapons, or ECCM is a counter to ECM, this ability to ACTIVELY hunt a cloaked ship is a counter to the cloak. I'm not asking to flip a switch and cause damage or force a decloak here. THAT would break/nerf cloaks. This would not.

It's really kind of sad that you and others get so bent out of shape over the fact that a player would have to spend a lot of ISK in specialized training, equipment and ships to have at best a 50/50 chance of detecting you after several minutes (half hour?) of searching and possibly fire on and destroy you.

ERMAHGERD WE IZ NERFED EVE IZ DYING!!!!!one!!!!!

Go pick on the guys who want an Easy Button.

Nothing was done to the cloak.

Something was added to other ships and, even better, ships that RELY on cloaks are the ones that can best use the new equipment. Cloaky hunting cloaky. The cloaking ships were actually BUFFED!

Hence, not nerfed.

Immense tears.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to cloak up in a -0.2 system and scan down some anomalies.

Hey Rob. Games supposewd ot be balanced rite?
U bring guns to counter the armor of their ships
You ECCM to counter their ECMs (which I've rarely seen ECCM on ships other then Logis)
You plan on them having lots of gunships, you bring TDs, and they can then counter those TDs with TEs or TCs (or in the severaly rare chance, a remote TE)

So I bring a stealth bomber? What can they counter me with?
Thats all this argument is. And in the current states of the game, they can't bring **** to counter me in my bomber OTHER, than catching me on a gate. (which unless they had a large camp, is particularly unlikely)

Exactly my point.

But, as I just discovered the hard way (LOL), if you're stalking some miners in an asteroid field, NPCs can target and decloak a cloaked ship.

So, really, a player being able to do it (and having a harder time than an NPC doing it) is even less of a big deal than even I thought.

yeah, but its all been discussed already. no point of doing it again.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699&find=unread

here is a collection of threads about cloak where you will find all arguments and counterarguments you will be able to bring ever

Since I posted this, two or three new "I hates teh cloakys" threads have popped up and I will be the first in line to say they are kind of silly and nerf cloaks needlessly. Something that causes damage to all cloaked players in an entire system? A timer on the cloak?

C'mon. Easy buttons. Those will just never fly.

In those threads, the phrase "non-consensual PvP" has come up several times. This made me think. Then, this thread came up:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=235534

Kind of brilliant in it's use of sarcasm and I applaud the author for it. At first I was thinking WTF? Is this guy serious? Then his style of prose showed it to be his commentary on the many anti-cloaking threads. Call it a troll post if you like, I thought it was nigh brilliant.+1!

But, once again, the phrase "non-consensual PvP"...

So, a carebear sees you pop up on local and on the DScan then immediately disappear from the DScan. Just like a deer, the carebear runs for the safety of an NPC Station denying you your kill...for now. You know where the carebear is. If you wanted and had the patience, you can cloak up and wait for the eventual undocking of said carebear. The carebear is still on the game board, so to speak. They will eventually undock, especially if they're running a good mission and have a lot of wrecks on the field.

You, however, with a cloaked ship, are pretty much removed from the circular food chain. You, yourself are immune to "non-consensual PvP". You are safe and sound rolled up in your cloaky security blanket free to feel a god-like superiority over all those upon which you look down. Really, aren't you just as bad, if not worse, than the carebear who docked? The carebare is on the board, yes, but not in the game. Meanwhile, you're having your cake and eating it, too. You're off the board and in the game.

If the carebear doesn't want to come out and meet you head to head, that's on the carebear, I get that. He or she may not be geared to fight you and that unpreparedness falls on them.

Another thought that came to mind is wouldn't those that so vehemently jump on anyone daring to offer ideas to inject the cloakers back into the circular food chain members of corporations that are possibly in null sec? As members of those corporations, wouldn't you like to be able to hunt down and kill someone cloaky camping you and your corporation? I'd think any smart corporate type would want that.

Again, I need to re-iterate, I am not against the use of cloaks. I use mine frequently (maybe too frequently as I think its become a crutch for me). I HATE the idea of a one button magical solution that makes using a cloak difficult. No skill. I do wonder why there is no capacitor drain from the cloak as I'd think it would use a lot of power, but I think the developers went there and found that the cloaks work best as they are now. Gameplay must take precedence over simulating what makes sense in real life or even movies.

What my proposal is, is a way to bring cloaked players back into the circular food chain. With this, they can be hunted. They can also evade their hunters. This isn't a one-button easy system. The cloaked player has a pretty much even or better chance of evading his stalker. It adds some challenge but does not destroy the mechanic itself. I think the only player put at significant risk with this is someone who is AFK. I don't hold a prejudice against AFK cloakers specifically, but all AFK players in general. If you are going to go AFK and want to be safe, then dock, otherwise you are fair game. I am guilty of going AFK now and then but I know the risks and don't throw a conniption if I come back to find myself podded. At least I'm smart enough to only be gone to long enough to take a leak and then, only while I am busting rocks to bankroll my next excursion.

Believe it or not, this whole idea came up when I was cloaked in nullsec scanning for sites and, being somewhat new, didn't know if I could be hunted down while doing this. I searched to find out that there was no way to actively hunt a cloaked ship. I was admittedly relieved, but left thinking that it just ain't right that I don't have a possible predator while cloaked.

Troll all you want, but I think by doing so you will continually prove my point - you like your absolute immunity and don't want it taken away, even in the slight way that this idea proposes.

Dude, hyperbole much?

First, someone would have to suspect that there is a cloaked hostile in the system.

Second, they would have to load up with expensive and specialized gear to go out and hunt you.

Third, the gear has a very short range and small scan angle. They would basically have to go to every location in the system to scan for you to find where you MIGHT be.

Fourth, after finding where you MIGHT be, they have to scan you down, while you're probably moving, to a small enough location that the decloak missile will be able to lock on your general AREA.

Fifth, fire the decloak missile and hope that it explodes close enough and with enough force to overcome your cloak. If you're lucky, have the right cloak and high skill in cloaking, you have a good chance of staying hidden.

Sixth, if you get decloaked, shoot and kill you before you get away or kill your hunter.

ERMAHGERD!!!! A challenge! Eve is dying!!!!!one!!!!1111

The only way you'd be totally screwed is if you were totally AFK during this time. And, frankly, if you're in the game but not in the game, you need to get blowed up real good.

I can't completely disagree with you on this. Local is a big Achilles heel when it comes to cloaking. I think I did mention that there should be a way for a cloaked player to observe "radio silence" and opt out of being in local.

However, even with local staying as is, it would still be a process to hunt down a cloaked player. When you stop and think about it in a return on investment manner, the only cloaked players at any risk would be ones intending to cause direct harm. They would hang out where other players are - asteroid belts, ice fields, stations, anomalies etc. The guys doing recon well away from those areas would be pretty safe due to the sheer volume of space that would have to be scanned to find them. It would be a ton of effort to find one small ship situated hundreds of kilometers off a planet or star.

Also safe would be the guys in cloaked transport ships going from one gate to the next as they would only be scannable for a couple seconds, not nearly long enough to get scanned, decloaked and 'sploded. The only way either the scout or the transport gets ganked is if they do something dumb. If you're just warping from one gate to the next, a scanning player would have to sit and spam the crap out of the scanner to just know you MIGHT be there. By the time they react, you've probably already gated. Even if you get caught in an interdiction bubble, the odds are still very good you'll make it out alive.

If you are using the AFK cloak with an alt to create paranoia amongst the carebears (I like that idea, its fun!) just park yourself where you would if you were scouting. The scanner I propose wouldn't be able to do an entire system as its designed to find only immediate threats (within a hundred to two hundred kilometers). If they wanted to hunt you, they'd have to hit every planet, moon, star, stargate, asteroid field, ice field, anomaly etc to find you. Not worth the effort unless they're just obsessed.