Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Because I don't want to live in W-space. The idea of having to scan down a way in and out is not appealing to me. Just not the way I want to play the game.

Now, stop with this lame response.

See, this is what happens when you leave the discussion of balance out of your post.

If you fail to address balance your post/idea is incomplete.

It doesn't have to be 100% balanced pre-play testing, but you are completely over looking the role of AFK cloaking. And why there is AFK cloaking.

The primary use of this idea will be to hunt down and kill AFK cloakers...well, once it is implemented AFK cloaking simply wont happen, but you get the point. It will be used to ensure that ratting systems are kept clear of AFK cloakers. It will mean ratting with near impunity since only somebody fairly bad at the game will not be able to get away when a hostile enters system.

For force recons a slight locking delay and crap DPS. For stealth bombers, crap DPS.

See, here is the issue with the "shutdown mode". You might as well have an AFK ticker on the guys name in local.


The whole idea of AFK cloaking is the uncertainty and threat it represents. Is he there...is he AFK?

If I can answer that definitively I remove all risk. If I get out my ship with this new module and ping around system and never find him, then I can remove the risk or substantially reduce it (I suppose he could come back to the keyboard as soon as I undock in the PVE boat).

So the idea may not be bad...but we still need to do something about local since it could adversely impact AFK cloaking which is about the only counter to local as an intel tool.

Crap DPS? lessee here, 187 with l5 skills, only counting the 3 launchers firing mjolnir on a manti. Goes to 328 if you switch to scourge. And 443 with scourge rage. Thats with a 3-4k volley damage. I think you're getting the wrong idea, a bomber is just that, a bomber. strike quickly en masse. Fire off a volley or 2, then get out before you can get shot at. I wish my other frigates could hit 350dps/3k volley just by loading the right ammo.

And as to the force recon. It REALLY SUCKs, that you can move around cloaked. Wait for the right moment when your gang needs it and then unleash webs out to 40km, Bonused Jams, almost double power neuts, or double ranged webs/scrams
All at the cost of maybe a half second to a second more lock time. I feel for the recons, I really really do.

Hmm for a falcon unskilled and unfit its 9.5 seconds on a frigate, and for the rook its 8. Skills change that to 7.6 and 6.4 respectively. If it really were so detrimental, theres always scanrez loaded sensor booster.

But then again, these ships aren't combat ships, they're support ships. You don't see logis havign great tanks or DPS either do you. A Blackbird doesn't have a good tank or fighting ability, but it does have its use over a recon in that it gets range on its jams on top of strength. And I could AFK cloak in a system JUST as easily with a BB as I could with a manticore as I could with a CNR.

Also, just for the humor of it. I think I'm gonna head down to null later tonite in a crow interceptor. Afk in a system for an hour or so in that, no cloak or anything, just speed. Work on a suit of chainmail while i do it.

Sure, 5-6 stealth bomber is a very serious threat. But the lone bomber for somebody who keeps his head? If you have sentries, drop them and kill the SB. Warrior IIs might work so long has he doesn't pop a cyno.



You asked what the draw backs were. I listed them. Pointing to their advantages does not mean they don't have drawbacks. This really reminds me of a game of "Yeah, but...!!!!" Force recons are not WTF own boats. They have their purposes and uses.




You do realize that doesn't work that well anymore, right? A guy with good scanning skills and equipment paired with a dramiel will almost surely catch you and kill you while you are working on that chainmail bikini.

So they catch me. At least in this case it was possible.

Actually my greater fear then a deadspace dram, would be them just dropping a sensorboosted Rokh or something in cause I'll be moving in a straight line. Actually any BS with a MJD could easily jump infront and force me off my path though. But at least it would be an interesting game of cat and mouse to play for a while.

And as sad as it may sound, Its actually a chain vest that I'm reworking part of for a friend because she wanted to try and make a suit, but forgot to account for her chest very well in the making.

Which brings us to that LOCAL debate again.

But really about this point after going and looking at all the arguments about cloaks and local going all the way back to at least 2009 (I got bored looking earlier than that). Local and cloaks aint gonna change. However much the forums argue that they should.


PERHAPS though, we could try a different step.
Make a new segment of null for players to move to (even farther out there). Massive systems hundreds of AUs across. No local. A new NPC enemy thats worse then sleepers.
But perhaps it could be that space that megacorps will be too much of wusses to move into, they wouldn't have local, and there would be no such thing as soloing sites. It would be so many jumps from empire, literally everything would have to be produced far out there. Perhaps even WHs couldn't leak into them.

Fringe worlds could be a nice name. and make them all rather dark since they're so far from the center of the cluster, even though they all have their own suns. Hell make some that aren't even planetary systems. Some are just a grouping of rocks that haven't coaleced yet. Others don't have a sun, just some planetoids and large comets that haven't gotten stuk in a regular system yet.


Could be fun. I'd go there.

I need to consolidate the various additions and adjustments so bear with me.


For the hunter -

DScan enhancement module: Capable of locating the rough position (25km radius sphere give or take) of a cloaked ship. This is accomplished by first setting the DScan to maximum range at 360 degrees. This will give a yes or no answer whether there is a cloaked ship in that area. The pilot then proceeds to travel through the system to the various warpable sites with the DScan still on 360 but with the range at a few hundred kilometers. This this will give a yes or no answer plus a rough direction. The player then narrows the scanning arc and lowers the range to scan down the cloaked ship's area. Once successful, the module will show a transparent red sphere in space and the hunter then uses the next module. I am not sure if this should be a high slot or medium slot module.

The next module is a sort of launcher that sends a missile to the area the first module found. The missile explodes sending matter out to a 25km radius. This will force a decloak if there is a hit of sufficient mass. Once decloaked, the ship can lock on normally. An alternate idea comes from the horrible "Star Trek: Generations" where they modified the sensor array to emit some sort of pulse to decloak the Klingons. Either make the decloaking module another mid slot or integrate it into the first module (it could go into a high slot or stay medium, depends on how much balance it needs - I could go either way on this).

Downfalls: these are skill- and technology-driven modules. The DScan module must score a "hit" on the cloaked ship. There is also a chance of false readings. The hunters odds increase with higher skill levels and better, more expensive gear. The launcher also has to score a "hit". Again, skill and meta level of the gear affects the chances.

Another possible downfall is that each time the hunter pings the DScan, the prey hears an audible "ping" and a notice briefly shows up on the HUD "Cloak scan ping detected" or something like that.

Technical: I was going to have the DScan module in a high slot, but I think it should be medium. Why? A page or two in to this thread, I decided it would be very interesting to have cloaked ships hunting cloaked ships. Cloaks already occupy a high slot and the launcher will occupy one as well (though it won't need a designated launcher slot).

For the prey -

First, there is nothing saying that the prey can't also carry these modules and hunt the hunter.

Counter-measures: The first counter-measure could be decoys peppered throughout the system. This can serve to both fool hunters and to freak out other players in the system if the hunters announce their presence ("We have multiple cloaked signals in the system!! Run away! Run away!!!). One-time use, just simply dropped from the cargo hold and will not cause the ship to decloak when deployed. I'm thinking a 5m3 unit sounds right. I think they'd need to be rather expensive otherwise they'll be littered all over the place!

The second counter-measure is vigilance and evasion. Watch the overview for a ship that flashes in and out for a split second. If you see one, assume you are being hunted.

Another countermeasure is to fit your ship to be un-probable using ECCM. Get your sensor strength ratio over 1.08 and you will be invisible to the DScan module. This can be done on a Buzzard with just two ECCMs. On a Strategic Cruiser, it takes 4. But, you will be able to either probe in peace or AFK Cloaky Camp to your heart's content. The bonus to this, I believe, is that if you are exploring and are smart enough to go somewhere remote to decloak and launch your probes, the chances of you getting ganked approach zero.

In lieu of the above, ships could be made to enter a shut down/silent running mode. They can watch local chat or they can use probes. I think I prefer the ECCM way. Although, that would require a change in the mechanics of the game to allow ECCM to run while cloaked. Hmm Or a specialized set of ECCM modules that work both cloaked and uncloaked. Probably cost big ISK, too.

Different cloak modules could have different levels of difficulty to scan. Likewise, they could also hamper the scanning, too, making scanning while uncloaked the best option for a clean signal.

I think that about covers it -

Hunt cloaked ships: CHECK

Allow hunted ships a chance to evade and counter: CHECK

Allow a mechanism that allows safe AFK-ing and exploration probing (and also allow players the ability to have the same relative safety they enjoy with the current cloak systems: CHECK

Not a one-button ridiculous idea: CHECK