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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

First post First post First post
Author
Echo Mande
#141 - 2013-04-26 22:54:03 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Felix Crusher wrote:
I can't help but suspect that while this is a step in the right direction, 0.0 industry will go from dealing with horrible tritanium and pyerite shortages to dealing with nearly as bad mexallon and isogen shortages.

Maybe but, from the blog

"Gneiss: 3700 Tritanium (+3529), 3700 Mexallon (+3529), 700 Isogen (+357), 171 Zydrine"

So Gneiss is being buffed with those. Nocx seems to be the only one left out......

Yup, no improved nocx sources. But I think that either Mexallon or maybe Isogen could become the bottleneck for nullsec shipbuilding because as I remember nocx was common enough.

Trit will become a lot more common in nullsec, with Spod containing (by volume) a bit more than Scordite and Crokite and dark Ochre containing as much as Pyroxeres. Bistot will have as much Pyerite as Plagioclase. Gneiss will have almost as much Mexallon as Plagioclase, which should help with that though maybe not enough.

I don't have the numbers but I'm wondering how much a small nullsec grav site will yield in terms of lowends. There's an awfully big Spod in there.
herpderp Ostus
QFC Eviction Horde
#142 - 2013-04-26 22:54:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
if you put frigs (scrambling or otherwise) in forsaken hubs, you will have nerfed the last little bit of good isk making in null sec anoms. The close range battlecruisers that a lot of people use to do them will become un-usable (unless you add drones bays to all the former tier 3s that do't have them, namely the naga).

The frigless forsaken hub is the only anomaly that sub caps can use to match some empire isk making pve techniques (liek incursions and empire DED farming). This seems a big huge mistake as it will only nerf individual pilot isk making. Not fatal, but defineately a serious wound.

A better idea would be scramming cruisers for hubs with like a 35 km scram range. The problem with forsaken hubs is lack of scramming things, not lack of frigs.


spoke like a true nulsec carebear
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-04-26 22:57:13 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:
Quote:


For a slight security deposit of 500M ISK, I could process an aplication for such a corp.


classic. Thanks for the chuckle.

loves me mah Goonz!

Still the two previous sentances, before what you quoted, is good advice.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#144 - 2013-04-26 22:58:49 UTC
Overall, the changes sound good. There are a couple of things I would not mind clarification on:
With regards to asteroids I assume you are removing static belts as well as static ice belts? If you are removing static belts, leave the grav sites at least for higher grade ores.
Are you going to allow moon mining in Worm Holes anytime soon? (I hear that people can't moon mine there)

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#145 - 2013-04-26 23:00:48 UTC
Marsan wrote:
POS fuel may start to really hurt if the Goons and Co start hoarding Ice and hunting ice miners.

Maybe you were asleep during the Ice Interdiction, but the "Goons and Co" have already tried this.

The interdiction itself was implemented well, lots of Macks died, and blue ice and blue ice product prices indeed spiked for a couple of months. But, most of the industrialists maintain large POS fuel stockpiles - ranging from a few months to several years. Keeping the interdiction going long enough to bleed out those stockpiles proved somewhat impractical. Ice miners were also still able to sneak through the interdiction, just enough to keep topping off those stockpiles.

Today, it would be even more impractical, since, post-interdiction, any industrialist who did not have a large stockpile before certainly has one now.
Danny Centauri
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2013-04-26 23:03:20 UTC
I think I just e(ve)jactulated this is a industry players wet dream, change means profit!

EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players.

Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#147 - 2013-04-26 23:06:32 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:
Quote:


For a slight security deposit of 500M ISK, I could process an aplication for such a corp.


classic. Thanks for the chuckle.

loves me mah Goonz!

Still the two previous sentances, before what you quoted, is good advice.


Indeed, I just replied to the fun part.

But I haven't met the null-sec alliance a 45 minute a night player would keep satisfied.

So it comes back to what Eve has to entertain me with in brief play, and frankly, SWTOR is winning that battle.

They need to either make high-sec worthwhile OR entertaining. Null-sec can be the best place. Hell, I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have free time to be in a corp. But high-sec needs to be worth logging into. If it isn't for resources, then it needs to be for some kind of entertainment. Now If I had a couple of hours a night I could get drunk and do incursions. But 45 minutes is like a mission or 2. Frankly SWTOR missions are more entertaining.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#148 - 2013-04-26 23:09:18 UTC
Hmm... I remember long ago when getting enough Trit was one of the bottlenecks in building ships in null. It was easier to get it from high sec, but transporting it still put a limit on how fast we could crank ships out.

So, will the changes to ore composition increase super cap proliferation even further? Or is the current limitation on production due to manufacturing lines & times. Just wondering....
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2013-04-26 23:14:19 UTC
I am not convinced that grav sites should be changed into anomalies, and that ice should be placed in anomalies as well. Scanning (using probes) for grav sites and ice seems like a better solution. It provides a means to slow down bots, and provides a little warning/protection for miners who are not afk.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#150 - 2013-04-26 23:28:00 UTC
Quote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.

Please reconsider this change, as this basically kills mining in wormholes.

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all. There is no reasonable room for pilots to "practice vigilance" outside of gimping your yield by replacing one of your strip miners with a scan probe launcher. A 50% yield loss makes it a waste of time.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey if ore sites become anomalies.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#151 - 2013-04-26 23:34:02 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all. There is no reasonable room for pilots to "practice vigilance" outside of gimping your yield by replacing one of your strip miners with a scan probe launcher. A 50% yield loss makes it a waste of time.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey if ore sites become anomalies.

So, mining in WH becomes almost as dangerous as mining in NO high-sec? Don't see the problem... :)
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#152 - 2013-04-26 23:37:55 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Quote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.

Please reconsider this change, as this basically kills mining in wormholes.

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all. There is no reasonable room for pilots to "practice vigilance" outside of gimping your yield by replacing one of your strip miners with a scan probe launcher. A 50% yield loss makes it a waste of time.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey if ore sites become anomalies.

Here is what you do: Use a team of two miners. Have each double web the other. Align to your POS. When someone shows on grid the fleet commander hits warp. The double webs means you are at warp speed so you warp right away while still traveling sufficiently slow that you stay in range of the roid.

Also many times we keep scouts on the statics and have the scouts keep a probe out. The probe is to see new signatures (possible new WH's) while the scouts see if anyone comes in via the existing statics.

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Mithril Ryder
Genstar Inc
#153 - 2013-04-26 23:40:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
One question and one immediate observation:

How much ice will actually be in the new belts? On of the main problem with the current design is that they simply are too large — even at a decent depletion rate, they'd stick around forever.


Ice anom sizes are tuned so that high sec is capable of providing about 80% of the ice needs of New Eden right now, if fully mined.


I hope you realize how terribly terribly and inexcusably short sighted that is.

Problem 1: Assuming that all of a resource can or will be acquired on a consistent basis over the entire day.
Problem 2: Setting a static supply limit on something with an elastic demand.
Problem 3: Pointlessly static respawn timers (unless it is 4 hours since the "belt" gets depleted which only aggravates problem 2)

I hope there is an order of magnitude more ice spawns in low and null to compensate for these issues, and tempt more ice miners into low/null. (And no, the existing numbers of belts in low and null are not enough, you need low/null to be a huge temptation, for miners, and the sparse belts/sites currently there still won't be enough, not until ice spikes and people shut down towers in droves.)

I'm surprised that CCP still thinks "static supply, plus dynamic and growing playerbase and thus demand = good". At some point people simply stop buying things when the cost skyrockets.
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
#154 - 2013-04-26 23:48:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:


So when I do have a free moment, I spend it in high-sec. Except time spent in high-sec keeps becoming less and less valuable and I don't even login except to change skills.


Looks like someone moved your cheese.

Maybe consider adapting?


Spoken like a true null sec zealot, or should I say, CSM rep.

Adapt or die.
Sounds like this is what Liz Laser is saying. He plans on dying, which in this case means unsubbing.
But I keep forgetting that is what the null sec zealots want.

All those bleating sheep in high sec to just go away, and the game will be a better place, right?
SamuelK
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2013-04-26 23:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SamuelK
I am nothing but impressed. I love everything on that list.

Are the insta scan grav belts going to apply to wormhole space as well?
Are the zyrdrine amounts on gneiss going to be increased?

also, I see whiners in this thread already.. get in a covetor or a retriever and mine ice in low sec after these changes.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#156 - 2013-04-26 23:51:04 UTC
It was long overdue, but anyway, good changes.

The Tears Must Flow

Aria Ning
White Rabbit Industries
#157 - 2013-04-26 23:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Ning
Liz Laser wrote:
and seriously where's the high-sec cheese and/or entertainment for someone who has 45 minutes a night in high-sec?

Have you played SWTOR yet? Big smile

I'm not saying its a better game than Eve. What I am saying is it is a far far better game than Eve for someone who has 45 minutes a night to play.


SWTOR? Seriously? I think that game was the fastest and biggest budget AAA MMO to go from P2P F2P and not to mention Subs dropped like a rock. That game is fairly decent until you complete you character(s) storyline. But honestly, I don't play themepark MMOs anymore I just can't do it anymore. I guess it's because my first MMO was Ultima Online.


But as for ore redistribution I am a little surprised myself. I figured they would add in more minerals to the high end ores but didn't expect them to be filled with Tritanium and Pyerite. It's still sad to see that Omber is still worthless, wonder why they didn't fix that one at least make it more lucrative than Veldspar.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#158 - 2013-04-26 23:53:41 UTC
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:


So when I do have a free moment, I spend it in high-sec. Except time spent in high-sec keeps becoming less and less valuable and I don't even login except to change skills.


Looks like someone moved your cheese.

Maybe consider adapting?


Spoken like a true null sec zealot, or should I say, CSM rep.

Adapt or die.
Sounds like this is what Liz Laser is saying. He plans on dying, which in this case means unsubbing.
But I keep forgetting that is what the null sec zealots want.

All those bleating sheep in high sec to just go away, and the game will be a better place, right?


If they can't understand something as simple as risk vs reward, then good riddance.

The Tears Must Flow

Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-04-26 23:59:33 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all. There is no reasonable room for pilots to "practice vigilance" outside of gimping your yield by replacing one of your strip miners with a scan probe launcher. A 50% yield loss makes it a waste of time.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey if ore sites become anomalies.

So, mining in WH becomes almost as dangerous as mining in NO high-sec? Don't see the problem... :)

The rest of Eve has this perfect intel tool called local. Wspace doesn't.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-04-27 00:00:06 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Rivers of tears are going to flow.


tears of joy .... right ??