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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

First post First post First post
Author
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
#181 - 2013-04-27 01:37:38 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:

barges are not defenseless
there are intel channels
there are bubbles at the gate
there are cyno jammers
there is instant intel from local chat
there are drag bubbles set up from all gates
there are home defence fleets of cheap and easy to skill T1 cruisers
there are carefully planed traps
there is so much more you can do to defend yourself


Barges are defenseless - five drones can't fend off a single PvP ship of any kind.
All those other things require tons of people camping gates to defend their own borders instead of doing things which are actually fun.

Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#182 - 2013-04-27 01:41:28 UTC
i must say i am really really really unhappy about having to rescan the 60k+ moons we have scanned

UUGH
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#183 - 2013-04-27 01:42:57 UTC
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:

I'd go into nullsec in a heartbeat and mine the ever loving hell out of the minerals down there except it's completely unsafe for an industrialist to get resources in space which is inherently insecure.

somehow we'll manage without the bedwetting contingent

nullsec isn't supposed to be automatically safe
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2013-04-27 01:43:33 UTC
a miner is prey and its only defense, like prey, should be fleeing to safety when the predators arrive
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
#185 - 2013-04-27 01:46:08 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
a miner is prey and its only defense, like prey, should be fleeing to safety when the predators arrive


I can't argue with you about the predator/prey thing, but if you want industry in nullsec ... this's what you need. Shift a few guys from the defenders of the miners into the miners themselves with the extra defense.

Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2013-04-27 01:49:32 UTC
i disagree; once properly balanced the smarter miners can realize that the riches of a/b/c outweigh the occasional barge loss

risk is a cost and the people in nullsec will be the ones who can properly value it not run from it screaming in terror
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2013-04-27 01:55:15 UTC
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:

barges are not defenseless
there are intel channels
there are bubbles at the gate
there are cyno jammers
there is instant intel from local chat
there are drag bubbles set up from all gates
there are home defence fleets of cheap and easy to skill T1 cruisers
there are carefully planed traps
there is so much more you can do to defend yourself


Barges are defenseless - five drones can't fend off a single PvP ship of any kind.
All those other things require tons of people camping gates to defend their own borders instead of doing things which are actually fun.


intel channels - just watch them and report anyone you see in your system who does not belong there - extra effort: .2% attention

bubbles at the gate - yeah, you are correct, setting up a bubble takes like two minutes, TWO !!!! - extra effort: less than .1% of the time required to mine

cyno jammers - yeah, you are correct, these don't come for free. setting up one requires some work, like 60 minutes for each, and another 20 per month after that, also some ISK. extra effort: 600m / month, 275m initial cost and some 20 minutes of work per month - BUT: what if i told you you don't need to jam every system ? especially not in the deepest regions of space, those that are usually rented ?

intel from local - see above, another .2% attention !

drag bubbles from all gates - yeah, another 5 minutes per grav site, horrible !

home defence fleets - yeah, effort, you are right, how horrible ! (what if i told you it's actually fun ?)

carefully planned traps - yeah, think of all those dieing enemys, horrible, think of their children. and the moment your trap snaps, think of it ! (doesn't it sound like fun ?)
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#188 - 2013-04-27 01:59:34 UTC
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2013-04-27 02:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
EvilweaselSA wrote:
i disagree; once properly balanced the smarter miners can realize that the riches of a/b/c outweigh the occasional barge loss

risk is a cost and the people in nullsec will be the ones who can properly value it not run from it screaming in terror

You're not making any sense.
Maybe you're just trolling, since, well, goons do that, but I seriously doubt any intelligent miner is going to go "welp, if that neut that just entered local warps in and cynos a fleet on my ass to blow me up, that's just the cost of operation."

He's going to warp to a safe pos because not getting your ship blown up is a lot more cost effective.

EDIT: Or maybe I misunderstood what you said.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#190 - 2013-04-27 02:01:41 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:


So when I do have a free moment, I spend it in high-sec. Except time spent in high-sec keeps becoming less and less valuable and I don't even login except to change skills.


Looks like someone moved your cheese.

Maybe consider adapting?


Spoken like a true null sec zealot, or should I say, CSM rep.

Adapt or die.
Sounds like this is what Liz Laser is saying. He plans on dying, which in this case means unsubbing.
But I keep forgetting that is what the null sec zealots want.

All those bleating sheep in high sec to just go away, and the game will be a better place, right?


If they can't understand something as simple as risk vs reward, then good riddance.


Totally ok with risk vs reward. Would settle for Hi-sec being ENTERTAINING, especially for those of us with small chunks of playtime.

Like I said in another post... I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have time for it.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2013-04-27 02:03:02 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:
Totally ok with risk vs reward. Would settle for Hi-sec being ENTERTAINING, especially for those of us with small chunks of playtime.

Like I said in another post... I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have time for it.

You're perfectly capable of making it entertaining now. Your imagination is more of a limiting factor here, really.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#192 - 2013-04-27 02:27:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:
Totally ok with risk vs reward. Would settle for Hi-sec being ENTERTAINING, especially for those of us with small chunks of playtime.

Like I said in another post... I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have time for it.

You're perfectly capable of making it entertaining now. Your imagination is more of a limiting factor here, really.


Perhaps you're right. If you read my bio I never claimed to be a genius. Let's just hope the rest of high-sec has imagination, or big enough chunks of time for fun like incursions.

I'm totally ok with the idea that I can unsub until I have the free time null-sec requires, (even if it is through my own lack of imagination and I spend that 45 minutes a night watching episodes of Firefly again).

What would really suck is if lots of other high-sec people also see high-sec becoming unrewarding. That would mean no Eve for me to come back to when i develop leisure time again.

No one has ever succeeded at converting large numbers of carebears into PvPers (at least no one with death penalties as high as Eve's). They'll just go elsewhere once they see their playspace becoming unworthwhile.

And pages later I guess no one *can* point me to ANY Odyssey improvements that benefit or entertain high sec players? Or did that question get lost in the shuffle?


Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2013-04-27 02:42:35 UTC
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:

barges are not defenseless
there are intel channels
there are bubbles at the gate
there are cyno jammers
there is instant intel from local chat
there are drag bubbles set up from all gates
there are home defence fleets of cheap and easy to skill T1 cruisers
there are carefully planed traps
there is so much more you can do to defend yourself


Barges are defenseless - five drones can't fend off a single PvP ship of any kind.
All those other things require tons of people camping gates to defend their own borders instead of doing things which are actually fun.

A single barge has only 5 drones, now multiply that by 5 to 10 barges for a really good mining op and what do you have? Also have to mention the two or three battlecrusiers to blow up the battleship rats that sometimes spawn in.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#194 - 2013-04-27 02:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.

I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield, and even consider increasing those percentile amounts as well.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
#195 - 2013-04-27 03:06:23 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
A single barge has only 5 drones, now multiply that by 5 to 10 barges for a really good mining op and what do you have? Also have to mention the two or three battlecrusiers to blow up the battleship rats that sometimes spawn in.



In theory, sure, but the attackers wouldn't come with just a couple guys. Goons should know this as well as anyone. Giving the miners a bit of extra defense seems like carebearism, sure, but it'd really keep the miners working (even though they'd still be on their toes).

Bear in mind I'm in highsec and I'm not saying, "omg nerf null and boost high because i'm a derp," like a lot of people I've heard.

Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.

Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#196 - 2013-04-27 03:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
Galphii wrote:
So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.

I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield.


You can't drag people out of high-sec.

However, your suggestion is an excellent one if you're a null-sec miner who simply wants less market competition.

But you'll just make some other hi-sec activity their plan B if you chase them out of hi-sec mining.

The number of miners who will venture out of high-sec and stay in low and null is insignificant.

The number that will remain MINERS in low and null is even more insignificant. It makes much more sense to PvE (ratting,plexing,etc.) and earn your iskies in a ship that can *somewhat* fight back.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#197 - 2013-04-27 03:15:35 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:
Galphii wrote:
So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.

I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield.


You can't drag people out of high-sec.

Why do people keep saying this?
Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#198 - 2013-04-27 03:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
Liz Laser wrote:
You can't drag people out of high-sec.

No, but you can entice them with more profit. Highsec is the training ground - let real profit be made elsewhere. Cool

Liz Laser wrote:
However, your suggestion is an excellent one if you're a null-sec miner who simply wants less market competition.

Exactly - if people want more money from mining, they go to nullsec and do it. Also, I don't mine.

Liz Laser wrote:
The number of miners who will venture out of high-sec and stay in low and null is insignificant.

Wow, you're amazing. Can you give me the lottery numbers while you're at it?

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Aria Ning
White Rabbit Industries
#199 - 2013-04-27 03:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Ning
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:
Galphii wrote:
So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.

I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield.


You can't drag people out of high-sec.

Why do people keep saying this?
Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is?


No they won't. What do you think would happen if they removed all belts in high sec? Think they would go down into lowsec? No. Many would quit, and those who don't would stop the mining profession and do something else. Highsec mining exists for a reason don't you think?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2013-04-27 03:32:10 UTC
Aria Ning wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:
Galphii wrote:
So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.

I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield.


You can't drag people out of high-sec.

Why do people keep saying this?
Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is?


No they won't. What do you think would happen if they removed all belts in high sec? Think they would go down into lowsec? No. Many would quit, and those who don't would stop the mining profession and do something else. Highsec mining exists for a reason don't you think?

That has exactly nothing to do with what I said.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)