These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#81 - 2013-04-26 20:02:39 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Overall, I think the solution is to do what high sec players are told to do: team up with people, learn to adapt, etc.


quotin' this

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#82 - 2013-04-26 20:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:



LOL..just love reading the null bears "wah, wah...my null sec income might be affected". High sec just took another body slam, and you clowns laugh when high sec gets crushed. Now we have one ship class potentially affected by an NPC change, and people lose their minds.

Hypocrites all of you.


And here comes the high sec ignorance. Who said anything about it affecting one ship class, LOTS of different ships do anoms.

As it is, the game is already grossly unblanced for grunt null sec pilots (null mining sucks compared to high, incursions and DED farming offers the same or more isk per hour, high sec missions offer less isk but are harder to interupt etc etc).

Its not jsut about individual pilots, the changes can be adapted to, but it's going in the wrong direction.
Grunt pilots in null are the ones losing ships, thats a bad bad bad group to nerf income on if you want you high sec LP and isk to mean anyhting. We're your market.
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#83 - 2013-04-26 20:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Haur
Tippia wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Secondly, those outpost slot increases are off by about one order of magnitude. The design goal should be that if you really max out an indy station, you should have 500–700 manufacturing slots… even these new numbers aren't nearly enough to get there.

This. I haven't done the analysis myself but I know that Tippia understands these things a lot better than I do.


I get 410 on an Amarr Factory Outpost (50 + 6*60).

I get 230 max manufacturing slots.

50 (base) + 2*20 (basics) + 2*40 (standard) + 1*60 (improved).

Some such… and then you have to sacrifice one of those slots for an improved refinery, and another one to get a few more corp offices in there so all slots can be put to full use. So realistically, it's 150ish, when it should be three or four times that.

Of course you're right, but this is still a significant improvement from the current situation. Also, increasing the base office slots from 4 to 12 will help significantly.

However, putting a refinery upgrade in will remain somewhat pointless while it remains impossible to get a perfect refine rate (pre-tax) with the tier 3 upgrade. IMO they need to buff the refine rates on the non-minmatar upgrades to where it's possible to get perfect refine with the top-tier upgrades. 40% base requires perfect skills plus the 1% implant IIRC, so that would be my personal ideal rate, or slightly lower to require a more expensive implant.

That said, increasing your bottom line in order to make it easier to actually manufacture stuff is a fair tradeoff.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#84 - 2013-04-26 20:05:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Secondly, those outpost slot increases are off by about one order of magnitude. The design goal should be that if you really max out an indy station, you should have 500–700 manufacturing slots… even these new numbers aren't nearly enough to get there.

This. I haven't done the analysis myself but I know that Tippia understands these things a lot better than I do.


I get 410 on an Amarr Factory Outpost (50 + 6*60).

I get 230 max manufacturing slots.

50 (base) + 2*20 (basics) + 2*40 (standard) + 1*60 (improved).

Some such… and then you have to sacrifice one of those slots for an improved refinery, and another one to get a few more corp offices in there so all slots can be put to full use. So realistically, it's 150ish, when it should be three or four times that.

…oh, and the refinery and office upgrades need similar buffs to make them actually make sense.


It's a good start, though.

Of course it's moot until hi-sec stations start charging vaguely realistic slot fees. About a 50,000% increase should do it...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-04-26 20:06:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
You must not rat for your isk.

I do, and I hate every minute of it.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Forsaken hubs are the only reasons right now to not completely abbandon null sec for empire incursions and high sec 4/10 farming. The things you have to do to kill ANY frigs in a battleship in an anom means you can do other things , and you can do them at all in an Attack BC except for the Talos which sucks outside of Serp/Angel space.

But you missed the point. Sanctums will have LESS frigates and elite cruisers and MORE battlecruisers, so LESS of the stuff that's disproportionally tough to kill compared to their bounties. Not only that but sanctums will still lead to The Maze (or whatever the equivalent is for non-Guristas stuff) which is much better than FSP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#86 - 2013-04-26 20:07:12 UTC
Anyways, enough forum whoring from me, I need to dump my laptop before the pub crawl.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-04-26 20:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
another dev blog explaining how the "idependent" csm and ccp are taking care of their favorite pets; the lowsec, null and w bears while continuing to nerf highsec.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#88 - 2013-04-26 20:10:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Secondly, those outpost slot increases are off by about one order of magnitude. The design goal should be that if you really max out an indy station, you should have 500–700 manufacturing slots… even these new numbers aren't nearly enough to get there.


I would presume that if they have an eventual goal of making nullsec industry a conflict driver for midscale engagements, they don't want the residents overly attached to station-based production. Might be too late for that, though.
--
I'm not entirely clear on how the proposed changes are going to make mining in lowsec more desirable. It's still going to be less secure than high sec for a minor increase in profit and less profitable and less secure than mining in 0.0. Grav sites will be easier to find, I suppose, but I don't think that's going to be enough to sustain lowsec mining.

Also: how will the new mining anomalies interact with Faction Warfare space? At present, non-FW anoms do not spawn in FW systems. Will the new mining anoms be suppressed as well, or will they spawn as normal?

Finally, as a frigate enthusiast, I have to ask: are there any additional plans for the Venture (such as making cherry-picking/ninja mining a more profitable endeavor?)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#89 - 2013-04-26 20:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
You must not rat for your isk.

I do, and I hate every minute of it.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Forsaken hubs are the only reasons right now to not completely abbandon null sec for empire incursions and high sec 4/10 farming. The things you have to do to kill ANY frigs in a battleship in an anom means you can do other things , and you can do them at all in an Attack BC except for the Talos which sucks outside of Serp/Angel space.

But you missed the point. Sanctums will have LESS frigates and elite cruisers and MORE battlecruisers, so LESS of the stuff that's disproportionally tough to kill compared to their bounties. Not only that but sanctums will still lead to The Maze (or whatever the equivalent is for non-Guristas stuff) which is much better than FSP.


no I dind't "miss" it, I mentioned it, it doesn't matter. A SINGLE frig in an anom makes a large gun only ship obsolete unless you are at range and can pop it as it approaches.

You dislike doing anoms and so probably don't understand what's happening. I like anoms (because I hated belt ratting) and have created litterly dozens of 1 and 2 ship doctrines to tackle them. This will end up a very serious nerf across multple ships, in case like the Naga it might prove fatal, and the naga is a great ship for poor player to jump in and make some isk.

Not the end of the world, but it is going the wrong way (ccp should be helping grunt players and making null income bottom up rather than top down). And yea, even if they remove all but one frig from sanctums. .

i swaer it's like Blood Raider Naval Shipyard all over again.....

Edit: and 10/10s might be better than FSP because you go to one place, but you can't drop a dread on a maze and be done in 5 minutes likeyou can fsp 3.
Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-04-26 20:17:55 UTC
Why leave the ice anoms in the systems that have ice now? Miners have chased the better grav sites around so why not ice? Also it would really put the hurt on the botters.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#91 - 2013-04-26 20:25:01 UTC
Hoarr wrote:
Altrue wrote:
What about wormhole ice anomalies ?



Do you currently have them? No? then probably not. WHs should not be self sustaining for everything, that's been a pretty basic design direction from CCP since they were implemented.



design? or over sight?
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#92 - 2013-04-26 20:25:51 UTC
I approve of these mineral changes, will now have a reason for miners venture to low/null. Obviously the markets will change with the change in supply, but as of right now the ore ranking, if you were to refine with perfect skills would be:
(All prices in ISK/m3)

Before the changes:
Arkonor 350.37
Hedbergite 290.24
Hemorphite 281.68
Bistot 277.83
Crokite 274.15
Jaspet 255.68
Dark Ochre 228.38
Scordite 199.74
Pyroxeres 197.25
Kernite 184.29
Plagioclase 165.61
Veldspar 157.96
Omber 151.42
Gneiss 132.86
Spodumain 97.61

After the changes:
Arkonor 366.31
Bistot 327.55
Crokite 323.68
Hedbergite 290.24
Hemorphite 281.68
Dark Ochre 269.88
Jaspet 255.68
Gneiss 242.95
Spodumain 219.84
Scordite 199.74
Pyroxeres 197.25
Kernite 184.29
Plagioclase 165.61
Veldspar 157.96
Omber 151.42

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#93 - 2013-04-26 20:27:03 UTC
i support the harlem shake... in any form!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#94 - 2013-04-26 20:32:24 UTC
It's exciting, how they, AGAIN, escaped the problem of lowsec. "There's an associated issue with lowsec risk-vs-reward", and a complete silence of how, or if, it'll be addressed...

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#95 - 2013-04-26 20:32:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
One question and one immediate observation:

How much ice will actually be in the new belts? On of the main problem with the current design is that they simply are too large — even at a decent depletion rate, they'd stick around forever.


Ice anom sizes are tuned so that high sec is capable of providing about 80% of the ice needs of New Eden right now, if fully mined.



i just can't help but lol and rejoice XD if currently 4 belts could supply all empire, that means now ALL the belts in game on hs will BARELY keep 80% if mined fully... they must be ******* tiny XD i love it!
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-04-26 20:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
We Still need the POS revamp!!!! Hope to see them in the next expansion!!!!

The main reason for the outpost to exists it to keep assets SAFE. The construction should happen in POSes!!! Buff POSES!!!

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#97 - 2013-04-26 20:37:44 UTC
Posting in a nerf HI SEC thread
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2013-04-26 20:38:36 UTC
dunno if the outpost upgrades are quite good enough (as it stands amarr factories will basically be the most useless of outposts and regrettably in the way of something useful) but they are a big improvement
Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-04-26 20:40:12 UTC
So question:

If Gneiss and Spodumain has such a low value, how will increasing the amount of minerals they produce help? The end result as I see it is those minerals getting even lower in price, eventually resulting in Gneiss and Spodumain going back to their original low value. The reason for those minerals to be so low in value must after all be due to oversupply, right? Producing even more of those minerals then, to me, doesn't sound like a good solution.

Wouldn't it be better to maybe remove half of the Gneiss and Spodumain asteroids from each belt? That way they neither become an anchor nor do they result in oversupply of those minerals, making them increase in value.
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
#100 - 2013-04-26 20:42:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
LOL..just love reading the null bears "wah, wah...my null sec income might be affected". High sec just took another body slam, and you clowns laugh when high sec gets crushed. Now we have one ship class potentially affected by an NPC change, and people lose their minds.

Hypocrites all of you.

Ice mining getting moved to anomalies is a "body slam"?
Seriously?
Check your privilege.


That is not the body slam.

But how about you examine the fact that mining in high sec just took a hammering as demand for high sec mins, primarily trit and pyerite, will be replaced by null sec supplies..

Trit and pyerite have been slowly dropping in price for weeks as people in the know have been dumping stock.
Once this was announced, trit and pyerite started really sliding in Jita.

Call it what you will, but the introduction of the superores in null and wh's probably lowers high sec mining revenue by 25% when this all shakes out by July / August.