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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#221 - 2013-04-08 18:58:25 UTC
I've been just rageposting about the Dominix, I think I should give feedback on the other two Gallente ships:

An idea I've seen with a lot of merit (WRT the Hyperion) in this thread is a reduction in cap usage in conjunction with the Armor Repair bonus. This would absolutely help with the concerns over losing that second Cap booster.

As far as the Megathron is concerned... I think you guys are going the wrong way with the slot switch. Drop the utility high for another mid if you feel it needs it, or even consider the Hype as the Attack BS, considering it's supposed to be active tank. Trimarks are going to hurt the Mega, whereas the Aux nanos and Nanobots won't hinder the Hype.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#222 - 2013-04-08 19:00:34 UTC
Anna Verhyldvar wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?

Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window.

Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers.

So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts.

Whoop de frickin doo.

Now explain me how I can perform at least close to that with heavy drones.

Realistically, you only fit 2 drone links in any reasonable fit to get 100 km range, 150 km was to emphasize the absurd.
You can switch to better tracking when fighting at close range.
On top of that, you can choose damage type.
And no, you dont need SeBo, you just assign them.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2013-04-08 19:00:36 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.



it was weak with only 6 low slots. With 7 it will be ok.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2013-04-08 19:02:46 UTC
Anna Verhyldvar wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?

Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window.

Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers.

So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts.

Whoop de frickin doo.



Great post, hilarious. The only you forgot to add was "or you could just fly a Apoc or a Rokh and do it 10 times better."
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#225 - 2013-04-08 19:03:41 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.


It's because they can't take advantage of it while in a fleet with 100 other people, therefore it's bad.

Don't you know, solo/small gang pvp is dead. No blob, no pvp. Roll
Frothgar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-04-08 19:03:49 UTC
Any chance you could address the issue of BS mass interacting with wormholes while you're on BS? They're just too massive to bring in any gang (You're limited to ~10bs if you want to return)

Battleships are fun and more fleet variety is always fun. I'd just love so way of bringing a viable BS gang through wormholes without leading to cap blobs.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#227 - 2013-04-08 19:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Just in case this is a mock gallente battleship rebalance just to make your REAL OFFER more appealing....

Hype 8/4/7
5% damage, 7.5% tracking

Megathron
7/5/7
5% ROF
7.5% Active tanking strength and cap usage.

Dominic
6/6/7
15% drone bonuses.....


Or something.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#228 - 2013-04-08 19:05:07 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.



it was weak with only 6 low slots. With 7 it will be ok.


With 7 its useless since you just get neuted and explode
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#229 - 2013-04-08 19:05:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I do understand some statistics... I understood the comment as meaning that I had guessed wrongly about where all the damage is coming from.

For further sake of argument - Hyp is number 3 for pvp damage over the last 150 days. I know how many beers you drink, trust me!
Mega will be No. 3 for pvp damage after the changes since it will be the shield tanked gank boat. What happens to the Hyperion then?

Gallente need a "survivable brawler" at the BS level - give the Hyperion a remote reps received bonus. All those high sec gankers have neutral RR boosts anyways, so it won't affect their playstyle one bit. Big smile
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#230 - 2013-04-08 19:06:30 UTC

With the domi switching to a drone DPS platform.... you should consider moving one of it's highs to a midslot or lowslot position.

It's powergrid often limits fully utilizing 6 highslots, and they're now delegated as a secondary function anyway...
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
#231 - 2013-04-08 19:09:01 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.


It's because they can't take advantage of it while in a fleet with 100 other people, therefore it's bad.

Don't you know, solo/small gang pvp is dead. No blob, no pvp. Roll

Tell that to the Neutralizers that will land on you the second they target you.

It doesn't take 100 to kill your cap.
IrJosy
Club 1621
#232 - 2013-04-08 19:10:09 UTC
I was originally pretty mad about the domi. However after further consideration, as someone who can afford to fly and lose vindicators, I realize this change doesn't really affect me. Sucks to be space poor!

I could warm up to the hype changes if it got a little more grid/cpu ,but the mega change is unforgiveable.
Rysis Vyvorant
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#233 - 2013-04-08 19:10:30 UTC
What are you doing to the Domi? You have effectively killed it as a PVE ship. Those mids are now useless unless your shield tank. However, you go shield tank and you lose the tracking computers so the mag stabs are doing nothing due to the guns missing.

Great way to make Gallente a terrible race. I agree with what has been said about all the ships. You guys seem to have no direction at all.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2013-04-08 19:12:44 UTC
What i get angry is that CCP made exaclty what I feared, made the megatron STEAL completely the role of the tempest. The remainder role of heavy neut ship was stolen by the geddon.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Bap1811
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#235 - 2013-04-08 19:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bap1811
I'm not sure I agree with these changes from a solo/small gang perspective.


The Hyperion is a great ship in its current state as far as "stats" go. It reps alot, it deals decent bit of damage and it has alot of mids, its one of the better active armor tanks (probably the only one tbh). The main problems it has is applying damage, but thats just like all BS, and I went abit more indepth in my previous post in your other thread.

The changes are a straight up nerf, running an active armor tank with a single cap booster (which is what your forcing people to do with only 4 mids AKA web tackle speed mod cap booster) is suicide, it doesnt really work, heavy blasters just take too big a toll on top of some MWDing AND the reps.



The Megathron is an iffy one, I ******* love the mega and it hurts to see it sacrifice its armor version to be able to fit a shield version.

If you take a standard buffer armor fit, this is also a straight nerf to it, you're losing that low (either a 1600 or a mag stab) which is a straight nerf to tank/damage and adding a mid. Except no one really needs that mid (ECCM is usefull but not worth losing 200 DPS or 20K EHP, nothing is worth that actually, the best thing you can add is probably a second web to be able to hit BCs effectively).

I guess we'll see how the shield version works out, I doubt it'll be worth it. I'm deffinitly expecting it to be faster and that might work out but I expect some sort of gimmicky glass cannon fit with little EHP. I remember when shield brutixes were all the rage. It might be good for incursions right?



Edit: Its worth adding, I'm not sure why you removed the extta drone. Its supposed to have more damage right? Doesnt removing a drone AND a potential mag stab go against that? All for a possible shield fit that looks incredibly gimmicky (essentially what a shield domi is today but maybe faster?). Also, whats the logic for changing out the damage bonus for a RoF bonus? This is not a big deal but heavy blasters already suck alot of cap.


Unfortunatly the Dominix changes also make me sad, the DPS bonus on the blasters kinda gave it that competitive edge in straight up fights. The tracking/range bonuses dont seem very usefull. Keeping in mind Ogres had no problems hitting a webbed BCs I dont see whats the point of giving them better tracking, to hit cruisers? I'm not sure how removing DPS against BCs and BS (important) and adding possible DPS against cruisers(meh) is a good choice. This change just confuses me.

Edit: Consider giving the Dominix a double drone damage bonus in addition to the new bonus. Or consider giving it the resist bonus. Honestly anything but the range/tracking bonus.
SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#236 - 2013-04-08 19:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: SpeedY G0nZaleZ
But I am looking at that poor Hyperion and Megathron.

Here is the core of the problem: the hyperion was initially introduced as a "better" megathron to rush and blap. Now you have two ships that are sorta middle of the road. Now I don't know about PvE but for PVP they are not currently clear choices for anything other than "DPS".

It always struck me as odd that Gallente ships never had an EWAR platform at the BS level. Perhaps adding a third bonus to damp strength (and a midslot?) would make these brawling monsters in small gang. Your 3 midslots are almost always going to be MWD / Tackle / Injector so you only have one slot available for anything.

Adding a midslot may be imbalanced if you are adding a low (which it does need). Considering you are going to have to run an MWD and an injector maybe just adding a pretty high (+100% at lvl 5) bonus to damps would make this able to dictate pwn in small fights.

I just feel they are too similar and lack clearly defined roles. They are basically both blaster boats with variations to slots and bonuses.
Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2013-04-08 19:16:01 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Anna Verhyldvar wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?

Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window.

Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers.

So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts.

Whoop de frickin doo.



Great post, hilarious. The only you forgot to add was "or you could just fly a Apoc or a Rokh and do it 10 times better."


I know this is being snarky and you guys put a lot of work into this, but it's the crux of the opposition here. The Gallente ships are based on a lot of "we're going to fix that" down the road (e.g. drones and active armor tanking). Meanwhile a lot of newbies will be going Gallente because the ships look cool and they support freedom and liberal democracy. And then find out, like many players, that a lot of their chosen race's ships suck.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#238 - 2013-04-08 19:17:24 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.

There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.

Thanks for the feedback

Yes, Hyper is in trouble but Domi is a complete disaster. Please bring it back. You guys seriously think that it is fun to fit a ship that can only be fit one way? More versatility, damn it, not less!

But if you need some fresh ideas for Hype - here you have it.
In fact, take a look at it's picture. See that? The engines!
Increase it's max speed like seriously, up to 170, but make it's agility the worst ever. Now you have a brawler that can get in range, wreck havoc, and gtfo.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#239 - 2013-04-08 19:19:03 UTC
So glad I've been cross training.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#240 - 2013-04-08 19:19:19 UTC
I haven't slept about it yet but so far i cannot find much good about these changes.

Megathron:
is there any particular reason to ruin an overall OK bs? Attack role? how does it move into attack role by loosing DSP and Tank? thats way too much nerf. Do folks really care about that med slot? what you want on an armor gunship bs are low slots and drones which can deal with targets your guns can't deal with (topic of projecting damage). pretty hefty nerf for that ship in my eyes atm.

Dominix:
well, the domi does better with the heavy neuts/energy transfer/remote rep modules anyway in pvp than with guns due to PG issues, so the large hybrid turret damage thingy is not that bad really. Making it quasi pure drone boat is an ok move.. This change wont really affect what we do with that ship anyway. I just dont understand why it needs so much more base armor, it already was massively tanky in most situations due to rarely being fitted with (big) guns for pvp. so in the end this change leaves me kind of puzzled as well.

Hyperion:
no opinion, we don't use this ship