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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#201 - 2013-04-08 18:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Rofl wtf?


He obviously needs *someone* to explain how to look at those statistics. I don't care if it's me or not (preferably not, TBQFH) - but *someone* has to explain it to him. The fact he keeps falling back on top line metrics is horribly frightening. :(

-Liang

Ed: Unless you're happy with him thinking the Hype is just fine and dandy because it's the primary go-to for offline structure bashing in high sec.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-04-08 18:37:37 UTC
I don't like the changes to the Hyperion at all.. It all but ruins every useful fit.

It's poor at missions, and poor at 1v1.. It's only useful in fleets with support, and now it loses mids that it needs for those rolls..

It makes it useless for Incursions, and **** poor for PvP fleets.

How about you just leave the Hype alone, until you are willing to fix active armor tanking, or drop that bonus outright for something useful.
Anna Verhyldvar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2013-04-08 18:38:07 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?

Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window.

Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers.

So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts.

Whoop de frickin doo.
Tsia
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#204 - 2013-04-08 18:40:02 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Good choices - I can't complaint since I voiced the exact same opinions about slot layouts and bonus in the recent past.
The only thing striking me is the Megathron drone bay should be reduced to 100m3 like the band with or we will be spammed with way too many ecm-drones...


No. Every time a (decent) Mega pilot puts something that isn't a DPS drone in its bay, they get a horrible sinking feeling in their heart.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2013-04-08 18:43:14 UTC
love the domi changed. I put off training T2 heavy and sentry drones for 2 years because there was no focused drone boat. This change might make me train those skills.
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2013-04-08 18:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Imawuss
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.


I can tell you from looking at internal metrics that this simply isn't true. For instance, for the last 5 days - the Hyperion has literally done the most combat damage to other player ships (for a tech 1 bs). The MOST. Now there may be a weird reason for this (I imagine its something to do with shield tanked ones on station undocks), but the point is that such a general declaration is unfounded.




I've been playing for about 2 years, i can count on two hands how many times i've seen a Hyperion in a pvp fleet. And when i did it was a kitchen sink fleet. To be fair i have even used a Hyperion but because i love how it looks and i knew i was flying an inferior ship. I rarely see this ship anywhere high-sec,low-sec, null-sec.

Now my observations obviously are trumped by your metrics but like you said if they are among the highest damage dealers to other ships perhaps you should find out why.... These are Shield tanked Hyperions sitting on gates, stations or shooting structures. These ships discard the rep bonus and go full gank. You need to decide what would make this rep bonus work for PVE and or PVP. As it stands now it is NOT viable for pve as blasters do not have the required range, and rails are outperformed by sentries via the dominx. It also does not have the cap to even run the guns stable. And for pvp the rep bonus is just sub par.

Exchange the rep bonus for an armor amount bonus Until you figure it out.. 7.75% more armor HP's per level. Problem solved.


So the 1 purpose this ship has you actually nerfed. 5 mids allowed a descent shield tank and speed mod, with 6 lows more than enough for damage and tracking mods. SO i guess with 4 mids we can have a pathetic tank in exchange for 50 more dps... yay.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2013-04-08 18:46:17 UTC
CCP Rise, perhaps you could give a little attention to the Amarr BS thread? Your all over the other 3 threads, in particular this Gallente one, and I'd dearly love to see some response from you to what has been hashed over on that thread.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#208 - 2013-04-08 18:47:29 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
CCP Rise, perhaps you could give a little attention to the Amarr BS thread? Your all over the other 3 threads, in particular this Gallente one, and I'd dearly love to see some response from you to what has been hashed over on that thread.


This, Not everyone is 'OMG BLASTERS NOM NOM NOM' Straight

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#209 - 2013-04-08 18:47:55 UTC
Hyperion cannot realise it's potential currently with the poor powergrid it has. Unless you increase that to allow the option of higher tier guns witht the dual tank then it remains very poor.


Whilst I like the idea of 5 mids / 6 lows for the megathron I'm not sure if it'll work. Losing that low for a ship that typically armour buffer tanks could be a deal breaker. I'll have to fly this one before I could really say.

The dominix looks awesome.

One big question, not just limited to the Gallente BS - Why are you still maintaining a distinction for the sensor strengths of these ships? That should be one of the first things out the door with tiericide imo. Bump them all up to the current tier 3 level and bring more distinction between BS and BC.
Tsia
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#210 - 2013-04-08 18:48:03 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
CCP Rise, perhaps you could give a little attention to the Amarr BS thread? Your all over the other 3 threads, in particular this Gallente one, and I'd dearly love to see some response from you to what has been hashed over on that thread.


This, Not everyone is 'OMG BLASTERS NOM NOM NOM' Straight



You, both, shush. Cool
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#211 - 2013-04-08 18:49:41 UTC
I'm gonna Bump your Vindi off station Tsia =D

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Dilanski Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2013-04-08 18:50:32 UTC
No I am not 'excited' about the Megathron. Or the Hyperion. Or the Dominix for that matter. All I see is my Mega performing worse, and the Hyperion still stuck with a niche/useless bonus until your active armour fix materialises, even then relegating it from any environment with logistics. [/rant]
Tsia
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#213 - 2013-04-08 18:50:35 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
I'm gonna Bump your Vindi off station Tsia =D



Sad
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#214 - 2013-04-08 18:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
As many others have stated, I'm a bit sad about the Hyp. The rep bonus pretty much makes it useful only in small gang/solo situations, where every piece of tackle matters. Removing its fifth mid really reduces the Hyp's effectiveness in both of these situations.

As far as the Mega goes, I'm not particularly happy with the new slot layout either. While the ships are occasionally shield tanked in a goofy attempt to make a big, less effective Talos, the reality is that the Mega is far more likely to be armor tanked. Taking away a low slot means you're losing either 10k EHP or 150 DPS in order to gain a utility mid. I'm not sure about anyone else, but having that extra tank or DPS is far more useful in most situations than a second web. If you're going up against ECM, then sure, the fifth mid is handy for an ECCM, but in every other situation, the low slot is far more valuable.

As a side note, a lot of people are bitching about the large fleet applicability of these ships. While I understand that it sucks that Gallente ships aren't as good for large fleets, it's not necessarily a bad thing for the game. Gallente ships tend to be monsters in small gangs, and I'd hate to see their ability to be effective on the small scale ruined in the name of making them "fleet viable."
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
#215 - 2013-04-08 18:52:20 UTC
A few quick words.

The Hyperion will still remain useless and unused as it was before.
You want to make the active armor tanking viable, but that is still a future project and with a long road ahead of it.
You also go ahead and remove a midslot making even harder the ability to fit a MJD for the damn Hyperion (fitted with Blasters that have the smallest active range of all turrets in game).

How it's supposed to reach the target?
How it's supposed to stay alive with all those cap hungry mods active?

Please think it over again.

Megathron.

I am not quite biased against the ROF bonus. But I would like to ask you how it's possible for the Mega to stay alive while it's trying to reach the target with a tank worse than before.
How is the Mega going to sustain the modules being active while the blasters are eating away the capacitor?
It would be better to lose 1 high slot (that of the one launcher) than a low slot or a mid.

And to add salt to the injury (from removing one low power slot) you further decrease the armor. What is the meaning of this?
You think that will improve it's survivability chances? You believe that somehow this might help the Mega being more used?

Please do reconsider.

As for the Domi.

I am a drone user. I like them and I use them alot. So I am not disappointed by the change to a dedicated drone boat that much.
But I am grossly appalled by the rest of the changes. Bigger signature to a ship that will be forced to stay still to deploy sentries?

How about you give the domi a new paint job with a giant bulls eye as the main piece.

Only five mid slots to a ship that his only weapon (hey Armageddon gets at least a neut/nos bonus too) are drones and the most useful modules are occupying medium power slots?


All in all the Gallente ships get once more the worst part of everything you might give to the ships.
It feels like you want to see Gallente ships of the map.

So far these changes are not well thought and in some cases (like the Hyperion and Dominix) utterly useless and demeaning.

If you don't want us to use Gallente ships (and most specifically Battleships) please say so and be done with it.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
#216 - 2013-04-08 18:53:20 UTC
double post fail
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2013-04-08 18:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
So for some more aspects to these changes that have me wondering and seems like there are many contradictions in the whole Gal BS line up. So:

1) Attack BS = faster, combat BS= slower and tanky right? So the Mega is the attack BS, so faster, but only if shield tanked right? Because if you armor buffer it then its now slower than the active tanked Hyperion which if properly rigged will outrun it (due to rig changes.) And that is if you use the Hyperion as its designed. And of course, you must because shield tanking a Hyperion is now out and why buffer tank it and not use a bonus? Which, ok, got it, so which is attack again? Maybe the Hyperion should be attack and able to shield tank or active armor rep? Leave the Mega as is maybe? There is something here that just doesn't jibe. Maybe I'm dense. I mean CCP says they envision the Hyperion as a brawler in small gang work.... sounds like attack to me.

2) Then there is this whole ROF thing on the Mega. I was trying to work this in eft but not sure if I have this right. In fact, I may have this wrong (not a math god here.) So by going to ROF vice damage increase BUT when you turn on overheat that increases damage and not ROF. Because that %heat increase is applied to a much smaller number now doesn't that mean a corresponding lower rate of overall DPS than before? If so this sounds like a nerf to heated DPS. Its also uses more ammo and more cap. So while I'm seeing the benefit of shooting more often and how that can be a benefit, how well does it pair with heat bonus?

3) Tristan, Vexor and Domi seem really out of line now. Its seems like the pure drone boat deal was more of a specialized trait like in the proposed Navy Vexor. The BC also were always something special, particularly as two of the BC's have that horrible armor rep thing going. I don't know. If you could overheat drones, maybe the loss of the guns bonus would seem worthwhile, but it just seems kind of meh compared to the Geddon. Overall it just seems to lack the coherency of the other racial lines.
fukier
Brave Collective
#218 - 2013-04-08 18:57:28 UTC
im not sure the domi needs all those high slots...

imo i would prefer you move a high to a mid

so this is what i would like to see

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 6M(+1), 7L; 5 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2013-04-08 18:57:33 UTC
Seriously CCP. Stop trying to make Gallente into minmatar , ammar into gallente and minmatar into ammar!

The races have CONCEPTUAL FLAVOR. Stop trying to turn everything upside down!


Minmatar are supposed to be faster and less HP, Amarr damage projection with a lot of HP and slo, Gallente are the drone guys


Why putting everything upside down while still keeping the battleships as NOT GOOD ENOUGH as overall class ?



I liked everythgin you guys made up unitl now for this expansion, but the battleship changes are HORRIBLE!! Stop MIXING RACES DAMMIT!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#220 - 2013-04-08 18:58:13 UTC
I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.