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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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kweler
Kaa Family Corp
#1441 - 2013-01-17 18:35:26 UTC
Two step wrote:

If you want CCP to work on the POS system, either by improving the current one or by starting work on the long awaited Modular POS system, post here.
.


Keep your promises CCP
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1442 - 2013-01-17 18:35:38 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
mynnna wrote:
https://twitter.com/mynnna_eve/status/291968306146062337

We don't think it's not going to happen. Maybe we did at first, but that's on us - perhaps we didn't read closely enough, didn't notice the sections Gargant brought to our attention. So that's no longer the problem.

Maybe you'd like to share your understanding with the rest of us?
(as CCP seems to fail at communicating as usual)

I don't see how adding new hangar arrays to the current POS system would gradually lead to a modular POS system as outlined at the previous summit (no POS shields, mooring bays, jumpdrives, linking several POSes together, arc of fire on POS guns, ...).

To me it seems that the modular system would be so different from the current one that it would have to be developed separately and cannot be achieved through evolution of the existing POS system.

The vibe I get from the CSM minutes, Two Step's blog post and the CCP response in this thread is that we might get a few bandaid fixes to the current POS system in the summer expansion which will then push modular POSes off the roadmap for the foreseeable future as that area of the game is considered "dealt with".


This isn't the case. CCP has two basically separate decisions to make:
1) To fix the current POS system or not
2) To start work on a new POS system

Now it might be the case that they decide to fix the current system for this summer and start a new POS system after that, or they might decide to start on the new system at the same time they are fixing the current one.

Again, I'd like to remind folks that are actually reading this thread to keep things civil and constructive. Going all nutso will only hurt the chances of getting CCP to work on POSes.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Akyla Dey
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1443 - 2013-01-17 18:36:00 UTC
Regarding Hans' excellently written blog post here (I'm sure you've seen it), start the changes now. Nobody expects modular POSs by summer at this point, what we want is movement, direction, some kind of effort. Start small, address the things that are most needed - security, storage, roles management. Continue to iterate as you can. We'd love for you to end up at modular, but at this point we'll take any kind of improvement.

This is a quality of life issue. Just like moving from a one bedroom studio to a three bedroom house, the quality of where you live is important. Right now to live in the cool part of town where everything's going on, we have to live in a roach infested hovel where the plumbing doesn't work and your neighbors come steal your food. Improvements to POSs means good things for everybody - you retain and gain new players, people get to have the luxury of a working home, and newer players don't have to look to the future wondering if they have to move into the ghetto to have a good time.

Please, start working on it. Put it on the roadmap. Give us some sign that things will get better.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1444 - 2013-01-17 18:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Zedah Zoid wrote:
@CCP Gargant - thanks for the reply. As other said, I appreciate the fact that CCP isn't saying they will never fix this, and for pointing out the other positive things in the Meeting Minutes. But it has been quite a while since it was brought up(like 5 years ago). And the words attributed to Soundwave about "the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community." is complete and utter nonsense.

Sure, building a huge lego system for modular POS'es might be a Jesus feature that we could live without this summer or in 2013 and there are probably only a few people that would actively spend their time doing this, BUT the POS system itself needs some work and that work should be looked at and done without letting art and other things stand in the way. Just start by fixing the roles interface and hangar access. When you have to grant roles that will allow a guy that only wants to run T3 reactions to basically unanchor and run off with the entire POS setup of a 30 man corp that's just silly. Sure maybe one time it made sense because you had other areas of the game to concentrate on and reactions were something only a very few alliance leader alts did or something but today there is much more need for finer granularity in manipulating POS modules without giving away the keys to the Ferrari.

BTW, just so you know we're not all spoiled, screaming brats all the time, thanks a lot for the offline/online and anchoring timer changes. See? I can be thankful. Just give me a reason to be.


Say by yourself, lol, I want a modular POS this year!!!, FTW!

JK, but we have big expectative on this happening... at some level at last..

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#1445 - 2013-01-17 18:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
I just hope that we won't get a answer like"POS rewamping would make the game fluffy". Because there's enuf idiots wich would say that, and also prolly will. And CCP is the King of Partially Deaf Ppl. They hear mostly just what they want to hear. Big smile
Anyway, i fail to see how 4 fail destroyers are a bigger improvement to game as a suitable POS. Unified Inventory makes me fail to see that again. And so on, and we all know, there's many of this **** out.
Hope i won't see next expansion giving us things like "a wonderfull Sleeper rewamp: The Pink Sleepers". Too bad sleepers can't suicide gank Freighters in hisec. If they could, Sleepers would be already pink.Big smile
Havar Thornkild
Smack Of All Trades
Absolute Glory
#1446 - 2013-01-17 18:37:49 UTC
The current POS system is archaic and very difficult despite being the sole most important piece of equipment in WH space and extremely useful everywhere else. CCP shame on you if you focus all your time on the flashier aspects of the game only to let it's infastructure crumble under the weight of old age and poor game mechanics
Oreamnos Amric
Confidently Incompetent
#1447 - 2013-01-17 18:38:08 UTC
I find it almost unbelievable that CCP is suggesting POSs affect such a small portion of the playerbase that it doesn't make sense to fix them. As as been pointed out many places in this thread, almost everyone who is half serious about EVE will interact with a POS with at least one of their toons. Even those who don't interact with POSs directly will deal with someone who does for e.g. T2 ammo, ships, etc.

I don't think anyone expects the POSs to be replaced overnight. A new habitation POS which only has the ability to hold ships and corp hangers would be a valid step towards sanity.

At the very least we need a revamp to the existing permissions system. An increase to the number of tabs available and to the number of configurable titles would be a start. Really the minimum that needs is fully configurable ACLs and if you are going to do that then you would be better off reworking the whole thing.

I work in software development and I would be embarrassed to find a feature of my product was as broken as POSs are in EVE
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#1448 - 2013-01-17 18:38:19 UTC
Two step wrote:

Respectfully (because you are a giant and can crush me), I think you misinterpreted my post.

What I said was:
1) CCP has decided to not do modular POSes all at once
2) CCP has not decided what they will be working on this Summer
3) CCP did say that modular POSes would matter for only a small population of players

What I am trying to do with my blog post and this thread is demonstrate to CCP that #3 is wrong, and that POSes should be a part of the summer expansion (#2).



Thank you. This.

This isn't about the players thinking this is easy to do or that it was said it would never happen. The problem is the reason--that POSes affect a minority of the playerbase.

We disagree. It affects large numbers.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
#1449 - 2013-01-17 18:38:53 UTC
POSes need a revamp. I hope CCP will seriously reconsider and try to make a small but critical part of the game (for 0.0 and wormhole residents) a better and easier to use mechanic for those people.
Grendaran
Celestial Tomb
#1450 - 2013-01-17 18:41:51 UTC

POS Management within an Alliance is an enourmous pain for the Non-Owner corps.
Security configuration is at the root of the issues

Please look at these Issues!
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1451 - 2013-01-17 18:42:23 UTC
Yes please CCP.

:)
Kalenn Istarion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1452 - 2013-01-17 18:42:53 UTC
I have been interested in owning my own space base since I started in the game 5 months ago, but have been deterred by the face-on-keyboard frustrating mechanics that I've seen described and don't have time for that level of face smashing. I would be highly interested in using the system if it was actually attractive/interesting to do.

Try Harder.
Dhal Ramat
Confidently Incompetent
#1453 - 2013-01-17 18:42:57 UTC
I don't post here so I'll keep this short.

POSs are currently terrible and affect ***everyone*** in some way. The paranoia and mistrust that the terrible and limited permissions system fosters is not good for a game. Given everyone needs POSs they need fixed if the player base is to grow.
MadbaM
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1454 - 2013-01-17 18:43:00 UTC
Gogela wrote:

...and to top it all off: Keynote from Fanfest 2012 that talks about POS's (linked at 46 min).

"POS's... we're gonna re-do POS's."
~CCP at 2012 Fanfest

...so DO IT. P



I was looking for this earlier thanks for the promise link, CCP will say anything to make you happy at the time, but then quickly back track when people stop complaining 24/7.

But hey you fooled us! we tuck you at your word and let you get on and put some ideas together only for you to then conveniently ignore the issue. Out of sight out of mind.
NiftyWolfie Aishai
The Musky Tears
Origins.
#1455 - 2013-01-17 18:43:51 UTC
Pls sort/make POSes better
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1456 - 2013-01-17 18:44:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Two step wrote:
This isn't the case. CCP has two basically separate decisions to make:
1) To fix the current POS system or not
2) To start work on a new POS system

Now it might be the case that they decide to fix the current system for this summer and start a new POS system after that, or they might decide to start on the new system at the same time they are fixing the current one.

You make it sound as if the implementation of the new POS system is a foregone conclusion and only the timetable is unclear (?).

If CCP feels that the business case for reworking POSes is currently just not there, then why would they commit to a complete rewrite of the POS system after the most pressing issues with the current system have been fixed (through bandaids)?

At that point they won't even have you angry wh guys lobbying for change anymore...

.
Geo Vent
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1457 - 2013-01-17 18:46:29 UTC
As someone who quit wormhole space due to the terrible vulnerability of your stuff when out there I can't understand why CCP think nobody is affected by this.

The level of investigation required by my old corp when recruiting new people was more than I needed for any job or club I applied for in real life. No wonder people are drifting out of w-space, and after w-space everything else seems boring. Not sure what I'm doing still here actually...

/me looks at Firefall
Rengerel en Distel
#1458 - 2013-01-17 18:47:51 UTC
High sec industry is too easy. How can you fix that? Remove all npc slots and make it part of the modular POS structure.

There aren't enough small gang targets. How can you fix that? How about bases people set up that are destructible but yet are useful enough for people to want to set up and defend?

Corps can't recruit players because of security concerns. How can you fix that? Oh, the modular POS are personal structures, and the corp doesn't have to allow them access, that'd be great. Players could set up their own needs, while still being allowed to hook up with corp towers to help share fuel costs.

As others have pointed out, there are tons of ideas like that and probably exactly like that which have already been given. The players see the feature as something that can only get better, and we're frustrated that CCP can't give it any legs to start running. Personal modular POS is simply one of those things that can sell the game to the public at large.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Enta en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1459 - 2013-01-17 18:49:00 UTC
Fix them or redo them, just do something.

do eet
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#1460 - 2013-01-17 18:49:09 UTC
Two step wrote:


Again, I'd like to remind folks that are actually reading this thread to keep things civil and constructive. Going all nutso will only hurt the chances of getting CCP to work on POSes.


While I agree with this to some point, however how long should the playerbase play nice? This has been discussed and almost unanimously support from the playerbase for years, yet it has remained a elephant in the room. While many would not wish to resort to rage, it seems to be the only effective measure to get CCP support, as history would show.

Development on this should have started shortly after Apocrapha, especially with the explosion of POS use when wormholes where released. Yet it does not seem that CCP even cares or has even started working on it.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden