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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Jimmy Katelo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1161 - 2013-01-17 16:49:50 UTC
I thought about getting into POS reactions, but the system is so f***ed that I've given up on it. Hell, I would've used mine for industry, even. So much lost production unless they get fixed...
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#1162 - 2013-01-17 16:50:03 UTC
So how about the stuff that got shelved because of imminent POS revamp? Are we at least going to get some quality of life improvements? You know, things like...

- Refitting T3s
- Roles that aren't terrible
- Assigning roles/access per POS module/POS
- Audit logging of SMAs/CHAs
- Refining that isn't terrible
- An interface that doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out
- Some kind of skill-queue-esque thing for onlining things in sequence so you're not sitting there babysitting it forever
- Fixing the wretched ammo bug when disassembling a POS
- Accessing cans without having to drag them into your cargo hold (now especially important since we no longer have personal CHAs in carriers/Orcas)

I could go on. We all can. We know a lot of this stuff has been put off until "the great POS revamp" but if that's but a twinkle in some dev's eye (easily confused with the tears they weep upon beholding the code), then for god's sake throw us a bone. We are your enablers and instigators.
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#1163 - 2013-01-17 16:51:08 UTC
As someone who has watched a dozen people burn out over the last couple years because of the POS system, and as someone who uses them for reactions, I support a POS revamp. You may not gain subscriptions but you won't lose as many.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1164 - 2013-01-17 16:51:16 UTC
About time POS stood for the RIGHT thing instead of Piece Of ####
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#1165 - 2013-01-17 16:51:57 UTC
colera deldios wrote:
I wonder why is everyone bitching about this ? Has CCP made an official statement why they decided not to rework the POS system ?

I mean people hear NO and just start bitching without asking for a reason as to why. Most dont even realize what complex thing this is, do they have the resources for this, the people, the time and what they chose to do instead of POS Overhaul.

I'm dissapointed that they chose not to work on the POS system but at least before i ***** like a litle school girl i would like to know the reason behind.

The reason you say?

"POSes: I am a small portion of the community"
Infinite Force
#1166 - 2013-01-17 16:52:12 UTC

I have been involved in ALL apsects of this game since 2005 (except for those really, really large fleet fights - never done those).

I was promised a POS revamp in 2013.

Broken promises again?!?!?!?

It's time to go on strike.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud - The only way to go!

Pitt POssum
Caldari State
#1167 - 2013-01-17 16:52:24 UTC
T2 invention is the most fun activity out there, almost as much as getting all assets stolen by a corp thief.

Zurin Djehuti
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1168 - 2013-01-17 16:53:37 UTC
My support is given.

The potential for new bases would be awesome. There are some other changes I'd like to see first, however this is definitely in need of a major overhaul. Or at least some manner of pain killer. As a possition for the CSM to support and unite on, I think this is a good rallying banner.

A bit of modularity to the POS system I feel would be rather beneficial, another means of customization and optimization that is, in my opinion, one of the highlights of EVE.
Piracy inc.
#1169 - 2013-01-17 16:53:50 UTC
gas chain are kinda fun.... after 4 days of pain learning the mechanics with trial and error!
Deadcode Analord
#1170 - 2013-01-17 16:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Deadcode Analord
As an instigator, as Unifex has coined it, I can tell you that an overhaul or even minor tweaks to the POS system would make my job considerably easier, leaving more time to engage my community in other less micro-management oriented tasks.

I understand you wish to deal with overarching tools which will help instigators and enablers, but please understand POS's should be right up at the top of that list.

Yes, the POS's are but a very small portion of the game. Yes, they are not very widely used when compared against the total playerbase.

There's one reason for this: to manage and understand them is worse than pulling teeth.

You are interested in what brings people together. The POS system does not do this presently. Your economic panel in the CSM minutes states, I quote:

Trebor: OK, slice it a different way. Would you prefer individual income or income that goes to a group
first [and then is distributed by the group]?

Dr.EyjoG: Anything that would encourage group activity would be preferable in my mind. [But what that is
a balancing question]. I would want to reward people for grouping together to earn income

For instance, a lot of the POS revamp work that needs to be done can fold into other areas of the game, like PI, other forms of industry etc. You could program a regional store for WH space so that *I DONT HAVE TO DO IT ON A SPREADSHEET* and pull from a secure hangar tab every single day. You will save the lives of enablers and instigators who are otherwise getting burnt out.

Work on PI and giving enablers tools to manage higher tier PI production in a line so members can work together to achieve higher processed goods. Corpies tend not to understand that we can make considerably more money if we do that in some instances, and from a management perspective with the current WH POS mechanics this is impossible to organize/monitor/initiate without far too much micromanagement.

tl;dr If you give those of us that use POS's back some of the time we waste trying to decode and understand the archaic language and idiosyncratic quirks to the system, [and the time we waste having to educate others] you will see the results multiply exponentially.
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1171 - 2013-01-17 16:54:31 UTC
POS are a big system. We get it. No one realistically expects them for summer. But iterations would be nice. Work it into a theme. Make them easier to use, more friendly to use, etc. while working on the modular concept in the background. Roll it out when it's ready.

This thread should serve to show what players want. The many blog posts, mine included, should serve to show what players want. The concerns from the CSM that you clearly dismissed are not isolated concerns - they're the concerns of the entire playerbase.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

CCP Gargant
C C P Alliance
#1172 - 2013-01-17 16:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Gargant
It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:

From page 15:

"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "

From page 99:

"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"

"Seagull: The reason there's a “no” to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."

Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE

I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

NaCl For Sale
#1173 - 2013-01-17 16:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lebowski2
I'm too bad at this game to theory craft like all these other big wigs (and the more than occasional Sperglord) but as a null sec dweller I really appreciate the work the logistics guys do to make fights happen so making there lives easier would be great.
+1 for POS revamp please CCP
Edit: Also I can't be fully be on board with themed expansions when there is still so much iteration to be done. Pesonally I loved the amount of content in retribution (inferno not quite as much) and I feel like more work along tiericide couldnt hurt
Fa Roo
Arviga Inc.
#1174 - 2013-01-17 16:57:30 UTC
Some way POS's should be reviewed ASAP to make them useful for co-playing in mid-large corporations. Talking about event makers you're pointing to 3 to 5% of EVE's populus. Same with POS managers - they aren't much bigger in count but they carry on, they're the backbone of every independent==experienced corporation.
No time for deep LEGOrisation?- fine, but refine what already steals our time.
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#1175 - 2013-01-17 16:57:47 UTC
mynnna wrote:
POS are a big system. We get it. No one realistically expects them for summer. But iterations would be nice. Work it into a theme. Make them easier to use, more friendly to use, etc. while working on the modular concept in the background. Roll it out when it's ready.

This thread should serve to show what players want. The many blog posts, mine included, should serve to show what players want. The concerns from the CSM that you clearly dismissed are not isolated concerns - they're the concerns of the entire playerbase.

This post; plz make more like them, it hit's the nail on the head.

Baddest poster ever

Golar Crexis
Donald Trump Real Estate
#1176 - 2013-01-17 16:58:48 UTC
I fully support a pos revamp and I do not use pos's.

I am however one of the players that indirectly benefits from pos's and I do not want to see them left untouched.
Aranth Brainfire
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1177 - 2013-01-17 16:59:24 UTC
I want to do stuff in a POS, even the stuff that's currently possible/practical. I don't because they are such a mess.

It's strange to me that a game rooted in player agency and world-building would deprioritize one of the few ways players can actually make their own physical mark in space.
Cat Troll
#1178 - 2013-01-17 17:00:01 UTC
Dear CCP, remember burn Jita?

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."

Tek Handle
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1179 - 2013-01-17 17:00:42 UTC

Do it!
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1180 - 2013-01-17 17:00:45 UTC
Better POS will result more WH population.