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[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

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NinjaOnShrooms
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2013-01-08 22:10:09 UTC
Im not a fan of the minmatar "balances" The cane was already struck a deadly blow that it hasn't recovered from yet and the cyclone... Whats the point in just swapping the split weapon system backwards?
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-01-08 22:10:09 UTC
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Prophecy:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missiles

there I fixed it for you.

But seriously most of these changes are really not good IMO. Heres why:
Amarr:
Prophecy being a drone boat is silly. Just think about it the only drone boats in the Amarr fleet are the Arbitrator and the Recon ships, while they really have more missile base boats in the T2 lineup. Prophecy should be a missile boat no matter how you turn it.
Harbinger is mostly fine as Fozzie suggests to do.

Caldari:
Drake is fine, no one cares for that stupid high slot.
Ferox looks good now, I like it.

Minmatar:
Hurricane is OK, I hate to loss that high but I guess it was inevitable.
Cyclone is alright I suppose, I mean your still keeping the split weapon system which is dumb and the ship could really use dropping a gun hardpoint and putting another missile hardpoint in there.

Gallente:
*sigh*
The myrm...is alright I suppose I'm still wrapping my head around it
Brutix looks better, although the active tank bonus (IMO) should really go in favor of something else. Unless there is something in the works for active armor tanks (OHH PEASE SAY ITS SO)

in general I already got really upsetting feedback about most of this, mostly about the Cyclone and the Amarr ships.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-01-08 22:13:30 UTC
IrJosy wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Brutix:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% Hybrid Turret Optimal Range (or tracking)
Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M (+1), 5 L, 7 turrets
Fittings: 1200 PWG (+50), 435 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4000 / 4000 / 5000(+117)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+656.25) / 789s(+164s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.704(+0.0352) / 12250000 (-1,000,000) / 8.1s (-0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+75)


Edit: This would make the Brutix a very versatile ship and allow it to be used in many circumstances. It'd truly make it a 'brawling' ship that newbies can get into pretty easily.

The changes I've adjusted remove it's useless armor repair bonus and give it something that actually benefits the ship and it's design. I like bonus on the myrm however so why are we cookie cutting that on to the brutix? This also gives it the choice, it can be shield or armor.


too much like talos


And?

Why not have a medium hybrid transition ship for newer pilots who can't use the T2 large hybrids yet?


Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
John Valentine
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2013-01-08 22:13:46 UTC
Also, if the changes to the cane and cyclone go trhough, I demand CCP give back my Skill points in Projectile Gunnery for BC's, so I can invest them into missiles. As the hurricane will be useless to fly, and I dont have missile skills trained..

And stop screwing with the minnie ships..We dont all want caldari easy mode.
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-01-08 22:13:56 UTC
Torri Bernard wrote:
What you are doing to the prophecy is an abomination. Didnt you get the hint when no one flew the myrmadon? Drone boat battlecruisers are horrible ideas. Add in the nerf to the harbinger and its likely no one will fly amarr ever again.


Maybe they don't fly them because they can't find the in the market. No Myrmadons in Jita Sad

Every race has 2 damage types, Amarr happens to be lasers and drones, don't like drones, don't fly Amarr drone boats.
Kyang Tia
Matari Exodus
#86 - 2013-01-08 22:14:18 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Also, many of the former tier2 ones seem to lose their utility high. I had hoped to see t1 BCs being used more with a link or two for small fleets with the upcomming change to links, but the loss of the utility high will just mean that ppl will be less likely to fit one with a link.

This. I like most of the changes, but you should rather take low slots away from the tier2 BCs than high slots.
Djakku
U Subbed M8
#87 - 2013-01-08 22:16:00 UTC
I heard Thulium is gonna be used for new manufacturing, better stock up on it now before the price goes up!
Tomytronic
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-01-08 22:16:13 UTC
I would like to throw in another vote for:

"Oh my God, split weapon systems are terrible."
Ams3t
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-01-08 22:16:26 UTC
Armor rep bonus on both gallente is pretty uncool. Only a few people use the rep bonus on thr Brutix now, so fix this and not the slotlayout. Myrmidon is the activ tanking ship, Brutix should be the high Dps closerange brawler, like the Megathron or thorax.

A additional low slot is nice, but a tracking bonus or falloff bonus would make the brutix more usefull. Best would be Armor resists, but thats overpowered.

And the optimal Range bonus for the Ferox is pretty useless, because the Naga is a way better Sniping BC. So a 5% Dmg bonus, like the moa got it, would give the ferox a better ability to with brawl.
xUnlimitedx
Doomheim
#90 - 2013-01-08 22:19:00 UTC  |  Edited by: xUnlimitedx
Well u need to nerf Tier 3's first to get in line.

And hi Amsdreit.
Ezra Vouland
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-01-08 22:19:01 UTC
Brutix for shield buffer bonus of some sort please?
Mund Richard
#92 - 2013-01-08 22:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
IrJosy wrote:
Vexor (turret/drone bonus) > Myrm (drone / repair bonus) > Domi (turret/drone bonus)

One of these is not like the others.

I see your drone boats and raise
Thorax (hybrid / tracking) > Brutix (hybrid / repair bonus) > Mega (hybrid / tracking)

(Except that in that case folk can bring in both Talos as competitor and Hyper as repper, so not as good. You win.
Still don't like the double active rep BCs though.)

Ezra Vouland wrote:
Brutix for shield buffer bonus of some sort please?

Like a Ferox swapping the meh optimal for a damage bonus with the shields?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
4LeafClover
ONTAP
Goonswarm Federation
#93 - 2013-01-08 22:23:19 UTC
Why the heck does it seem like CCP has a lovefest with the Caldari ships? If they are nerfing the Cane (again) because it is overused, then for crap sake they should be nerfing the hell out of the Drake. You really want to stop botting in EVE, well it starts with your passivly tanked caldari ships. Or was all that lip service to stopping bots just that...lip service?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#94 - 2013-01-08 22:23:42 UTC
First, let me say: Don't touch my Cyclone. Now I'll read your post.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Torri Bernard
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2013-01-08 22:23:43 UTC
Edward Pierce wrote:
Torri Bernard wrote:
What you are doing to the prophecy is an abomination. Didnt you get the hint when no one flew the myrmadon? Drone boat battlecruisers are horrible ideas. Add in the nerf to the harbinger and its likely no one will fly amarr ever again.


Maybe they don't fly them because they can't find the in the market. No Myrmadons in Jita Sad

Every race has 2 damage types, Amarr happens to be lasers and drones, don't like drones, don't fly Amarr drone boats.


Amarr has as many missile boats as drone boats. Also, go fly a prophecy in a goon fleet and see how long you make it before they laugh you out and make you take a picture with a plunger on your head. (you can try this before or after the change and you'll get the same result)
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#96 - 2013-01-08 22:26:02 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness


Please rethink this part. Active local tank bonuses are not competitive with the resist bonus.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#97 - 2013-01-08 22:26:13 UTC
Any change on the shield recharge for the passive tank kings, drake and myrm?

This isnt a comment on the actual combat performance of the ship but I'm also not sure I like the move to 10% bonuses on the harbinger. I know you should be duly rewarded for training skills, but I feel like 10% weapon damage makes the jump from battlecruiser IV to V quite large. Battlecruisers are some of the most cost-effective and achievable ships for newer players to aim towards for PVP, and I feel like many of the newer players wouldnt be able to fully experience what the harb was intended to be when it was balanced. (Hurricane experiences the same thing even now though, so I might just be over-exaggerating things)

I suppose it's not too terrible if the skill multiplier for Amarr BC is changed to be a bit lower when the split happens, but still. Speaking of, I might have missed it somewhere but will this point release contain the Battlecruiser/Destroyer split or are you saving it for a later expansion?
4LeafClover
ONTAP
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2013-01-08 22:26:14 UTC
Tomytronic wrote:
I would like to throw in another vote for:

"Oh my God, split weapon systems are terrible."



I am quoting this because it is soooooo true. At least every other race can choose one or the other, minmatar have to try and figure out how to fit both on each ship. DUMB!
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-01-08 22:26:17 UTC
Tomytronic wrote:
I would like to throw in another vote for:

"Oh my God, split weapon systems are terrible."


Split weapon systems refers to bonuses to two different weapon systems, like the Typhoon.

Having one or two extra highs that could also be a turret is called a utility slot. Use a turret, or a smart bomb, or a nos/neut. Or here's an idea, use a gang link!
HazeInADaze
Safari Hunt Club
#100 - 2013-01-08 22:28:12 UTC  |  Edited by: HazeInADaze
I'd like to see BCs more dependent on cruiser & frig support. I think they should be a fleet enhancement: either links and tank or DPS. But I don't like seeing them as a straight upgrade from combat cruisers -- I think combat cruisers need a place that the BC just can't fill.

Painfully slow aligns, limited speed, low sensor strength, low scan res, a very negative correlation between tank and gank; all ways to make the BC rely on help from other classes to bring its designed strength to the fight.

I think the T1 logi and Ewar cruisers will still retain a roll but i'm hopeful that the choice between caracal and drake, or ruppy and cane isn't as simple as " do I want to spend more money?"