These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2541 - 2013-03-08 23:34:37 UTC
What gets me going now is the ugly fact that a standard cookie cutter drake with heavies can't break the tank of another drake with the same fit. Lol I tried it and before you ask I have elite missile skills. With hams it is admittedly different but its a long fight. Ferox isn't too bad though, its a useful and versatile ship. Cyclone is next to useless and underforms in terms of dps. Not much missile love these days.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Bizheep
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2542 - 2013-03-11 05:45:48 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
What gets me going now is the ugly fact that a standard cookie cutter drake with heavies can't break the tank of another drake with the same fit. Lol I tried it and before you ask I have elite missile skills


probably because you are just using a terribad fit
try replacing some shield power relay with BCS

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2543 - 2013-03-13 22:47:21 UTC
Bizheep wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
What gets me going now is the ugly fact that a standard cookie cutter drake with heavies can't break the tank of another drake with the same fit. Lol I tried it and before you ask I have elite missile skills


probably because you are just using a terribad fit
try replacing some shield power relay with BCS



I was referring to the standard cookie cutter fit, that you see in big alliances out in null. My fit is ******* awesome and doesn't include shield power relays and was not the fit being discussed. I do not fly around in crap fits. I leave that to the goonsBlink

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#2544 - 2013-03-14 00:40:33 UTC
Meh the Drake is still the best BC and amazing value for it's cost. The rest aren't too shabby either, I'd say the Cane is in the worst shape after these changes.
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#2545 - 2013-03-14 08:49:01 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Meh the Drake is still the best BC and amazing value for it's cost. The rest aren't too shabby either, I'd say the Cane is in the worst shape after these changes.

I personally think the cane is still in good shape. Certainly the armour brawling fits I use on my alt are anyway. All I had to do was drop 1 medium neut and a trimark rig to fit an ancillary rig. That let me fit a T2 1600mm plate and I've kept the same ehp(ish) and I'm actually a little faster. I admit shield canes aren't in a fantastic shape, but I think they compare well with the other options.

The Drake is still top dog, but that really is an issue with shield tanking in general rather than the hull. I have tried to work some fits for doing C2 WHs and so far the Drake wins hands down. The same goes for mission fits.

And yes, the only fit worth a damn on the cyclone is an asb fit. It can't tank as well as a Drake, it can't put out DPS like a Drake and its only saving grace is its marginal speed superiority and its utility highs. That's a big disappointment to me because I like the cyclones model and I had hoped to use it regularly. As its stands the only reason I can see to take it anywhere is solo/small gang PvP. Even then, the Drake fairs just as well.

Between the Drake and the Cyclone, I would like to see one focus on tank and one focus on DPS. The Drake is and always will be a brick. So I would give the cyclone higher DPS.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2546 - 2013-03-14 09:56:40 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Bizheep wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
What gets me going now is the ugly fact that a standard cookie cutter drake with heavies can't break the tank of another drake with the same fit. Lol I tried it and before you ask I have elite missile skills


probably because you are just using a terribad fit
try replacing some shield power relay with BCS



I was referring to the standard cookie cutter fit, that you see in big alliances out in null. My fit is ******* awesome and doesn't include shield power relays and was not the fit being discussed. I do not fly around in crap fits. I leave that to the goonsBlink


PVP buffer Drakes do not tank 400 DPS kinetic. Your fit is crap.
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#2547 - 2013-03-14 23:13:02 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Meh the Drake is still the best BC and amazing value for it's cost. The rest aren't too shabby either, I'd say the Cane is in the worst shape after these changes.

I personally think the cane is still in good shape. Certainly the armour brawling fits I use on my alt are anyway. All I had to do was drop 1 medium neut and a trimark rig to fit an ancillary rig. That let me fit a T2 1600mm plate and I've kept the same ehp(ish) and I'm actually a little faster. I admit shield canes aren't in a fantastic shape, but I think they compare well with the other options.

The Drake is still top dog, but that really is an issue with shield tanking in general rather than the hull. I have tried to work some fits for doing C2 WHs and so far the Drake wins hands down. The same goes for mission fits.

And yes, the only fit worth a damn on the cyclone is an asb fit. It can't tank as well as a Drake, it can't put out DPS like a Drake and its only saving grace is its marginal speed superiority and its utility highs. That's a big disappointment to me because I like the cyclones model and I had hoped to use it regularly. As its stands the only reason I can see to take it anywhere is solo/small gang PvP. Even then, the Drake fairs just as well.

Between the Drake and the Cyclone, I would like to see one focus on tank and one focus on DPS. The Drake is and always will be a brick. So I would give the cyclone higher DPS.


Yeah Cyclones dps is sad and the buffer fits are massively outclassed by Drakes, but 2 utility highs is quite a big advantage because of the power of neuts, although I would like to see an increase in the damage bonus, the whole 5% -> 10% boost to Harb/Brutix/Drake to keep a utility high really kind of put the Cyclone/Cane in the backseat as they just don't get enough hull bonus IMO. Especially the Cane which doesn't have it's double utility highs anymore and only slightly more effective turrets.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2548 - 2013-03-15 09:04:05 UTC
There's nothing the matter with the Cyclone's DPS, it can do more than the Drake. You just have to forgo those dual medium neuts...
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2549 - 2013-03-15 12:20:32 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
There's nothing the matter with the Cyclone's DPS, it can do more than the Drake. You just have to forgo those dual medium neuts...


I'd call it....

Quote:
[Cyclone, welpcane]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I





In analogy to the great (cheap) welpcane.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2550 - 2013-03-15 12:28:21 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:

Yeah Cyclones dps is sad and the buffer fits are massively outclassed by Drakes, but 2 utility highs is quite a big advantage because of the power of neuts, although I would like to see an increase in the damage bonus, the whole 5% -> 10% boost to Harb/Brutix/Drake to keep a utility high really kind of put the Cyclone/Cane in the backseat as they just don't get enough hull bonus IMO. Especially the Cane which doesn't have it's double utility highs anymore and only slightly more effective turrets.


Just imagine people having a skirmish links and now something drastic like 10% turret dmg, 5% falloff for the cane. I'd like to have that, but I don't like everyone to shoot me with it, what they probably would. New Cane really is fine, it's still great. And I at least can now live with a drake being a nearly indestructible brick that doesn't out-dps other battlecruisers within 15-80km range anymore :D
Bjron
501st Amarr
#2551 - 2013-03-15 13:30:52 UTC
Torri Bernard wrote:
What you are doing to the prophecy is an abomination. Didnt you get the hint when no one flew the myrmadon? Drone boat battlecruisers are horrible ideas. Add in the nerf to the harbinger and its likely no one will fly amarr ever again.

The prophecy (I flew one last night, first time ever) turned out to be simply amazing considering I can't fit T2 drone upgrades nor T2 drones.

Its extremely tanky, requires no swapping of hardeners with my skills and a T2 med rep, T2 explosive/kin hardeners with a T2 EANM all resists are over 70% besides thermal at high 60.

I had no issues with drones getting damaged.

My fit was something along these lines.
4 HML 2's, 1 DLA.
AB T2, T2 cap rechargers X2 and one drone nav.
3 DDA, 3 resist mods and 1 rep.
2X Nano pumps
1 X Nanobot

Had no issues in Angel extravaganza or the other level 3's I ran. Runs everything but the AB stable, 15 minutes with everything on.
I suspect with better drone skills, the prophecy is going to be one hell of a drone BC, it looks (to me) like it should apply strong dps for a BC, while fielding a tank with no major resist holes.
Its nimble enough with a T2 AB, had good range on the HLM too.
My drone range was 5K longer (55km) than my missile range.

I look forward to fitting a Harby soon as well.
In fact over the next couple of months I want to run all level of missions in all types of ships, from frigates to battle cruisers, just to check out all the new changes.

I might finally get around to flying some of the hulls I always wanted to fly, namely the Rax and some minie boats.
fenistil
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2552 - 2013-03-20 12:42:44 UTC
The performance of a hull is not really measurable in PVE. For PVE pretty much no matter what you fly, you can get it working. It might not be as "fast" to do missions in as other hulls but they are all viable if you have the brains to fit it.

The question is: how does prophecy compare to other hulls in solo/small gang and larger fleet fights?

I would say that simply because of the resist bonuses + drones + unbonused weapon systems it is a versatile and usable hull, more so than the harb or myrm.

In fact in almost all the circumstances I would go with prophecy over myrm which is a shame and I am quite butthurt about it.

.

Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#2553 - 2013-03-20 13:09:19 UTC
fenistil wrote:
The performance of a hull is not really measurable in PVE. For PVE pretty much no matter what you fly, you can get it working. It might not be as "fast" to do missions in as other hulls but they are all viable if you have the brains to fit it.

The question is: how does prophecy compare to other hulls in solo/small gang and larger fleet fights?

I would say that simply because of the resist bonuses + drones + unbonused weapon systems it is a versatile and usable hull, more so than the harb or myrm.

In fact in almost all the circumstances I would go with prophecy over myrm which is a shame and I am quite butthurt about it.


I'd generally agree that the proph is better than the myrmidon for most situations however the myrmidon still holds it's niche as an amazing small scale brawler due to the ability to fit tripple reps dual cap boosters and full tackle.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#2554 - 2013-03-24 21:17:51 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
I'd generally agree that the proph is better than the myrmidon for most situations however the myrmidon still holds it's niche as an amazing small scale brawler due to the ability to fit tripple reps dual cap boosters and full tackle.

This advantage is very small - which is the point.

Myrm is a better "sniper" platform though - not that there's a well defined Sniper Myrm doctrine floating about.
Nova Satar
Annihilate.
#2555 - 2013-03-25 16:59:09 UTC
I have to say i think the BC's are currently at their best balance in a long time, whilst maintaining a relative niche for each.

The Prophecy obviously has an incredible tank but is well of the mark in dps so makes for a great gang boat rather than a solo one. The myrm has immense dps and full tackle/tank ability, great solo ship, but pick your fights. Ferox is excellent, i love its dps and with the resist bonus it works perfectly for a hit an run ship.

Not sure about the Cylone, but It's always good to have ships that people are more willing to fight, before people would avoid canes as they were so overpowered, whereas i think thats resolved now. Infact the cane has definitely been battered the most, it's lost pretty much all of it's positives but still makes for a good, quick dps platform...

Overall really impressed with all the retribution changes, the Cruisers and BC's are much better as a shiptype than they used to be, and im looking forward to hearing about the BS plans now.... a much harder challenge i think.

Luc Chastot
#2556 - 2013-03-25 17:19:02 UTC
It's been a whole after the patch. How are gallente pilots liking their BCs? I still think the Brutix is lacking PG and a different bonus.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Vega Umbranox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2557 - 2013-05-01 06:45:13 UTC
So after all was said and done... it was ok to put 2 active bonuses on the gallente BC because we can get an overpriced navy variant without active bonus for like 200mil isk? ...awesome....

i like my active brutix dont get me wrong but **** u are crippling my options here guys... why is there no buffer options for gallente bc that dont cost a tonne and dont make me have 1 effective bonus