Intergalactic Summit

The work is the 'vote'. Also profit is not a dirty word and can mean more than just monetary benefits, which by the way are pretty legitimate way to get paid for provided work throughout the cluster. In the end you want to accumulate wealth and provide for your family by doing your job, and a healthy - profit making - corporation can provide just that.



On what basis do you assume such things? I'm always astonished where this nonsense comes from.

I hope you do not think my venom directed towards you, Captain Keating. In my limited exposure, it seems like you live by your convictions: you are polite about your disagreements and are willing to disagree with others' opinions without belittling them for disagreeing with you. I respect that. Sometimes your tone seems overly pedantic, but that may be just my reading so I try not to let it flavor my reaction negatively.

My displeasure was intended for Professor Octirant specifically, for he appears to prefer attacking those who disagree with them to providing constructive arguments as to why they disagree. I did not make my purpose clear, as you and others appear to have misunderstood me, witness also:


Although my education was lacking in many things, it did include a bit on something called "satire". I deliberately emulated the structure and style of the Professor's original inflammatory rant, including the overblown criticisms but pointing in the opposite direction, in order to emphasize how ridiculous both extremes are, and quoted the Professor immediately above so that would be more clear. My final, contradictory paragraph was a departure and intended to show that my personal opinion was different from what I had said before. I know from outside feedback that some people got it, but clearly most here did not, so overall I failed in my intent. If anyone has constructive suggestions on how I could have made the sarcasm clearer, I would be happy to hear them. Including the dig at the end was a mistake, for one, as it ruined the slightly more conciliatory tone I had started to strike in that final paragraph.

Ah, the IGS. That's a good place to look for this kind of information.
Beats common sense and first-hand-experience.

^^This, along with someone beating some sense into the OP, would be considered Good Things(TM) by most of us, I think.

There are probably differences, but you are assuming that State laws are not morally correct from the beginning?

Since laws are governed and enforced differently by each mega corporation then its safe to assume majority if not exclusively speaking only employees of the corporation would find them acceptable. I still can't understand how a business can be allowed to decide that for you. Just doesn't feel right to me. Maybe I'm just too much of a romantic?



Yes I'm very familiar with the Federal law system. It's slightly slower here and the person that can afford the 'ace lawyer' generally wins. Suddenly, I'm in the mood for holoreels. Despite this though we have a law system that is encompassing to all of society as a whole that is the same everywhere for everyone, no exceptions. Because they are laws that uphold our moralities and personal values not even as citizens but as human beings.

Of course there's a few exceptions like in Oursulaert (wonderful place by the way) it is illegal to commit suicide and that would lead to a hefty 9,000 isk fine. Under Federal law, a capsuleer can not technically commit suicide so I always wondered who they'll be collecting the fine from if the person won't be coming back. .?

A horrible happenstance it was that two peoples, two cultures and two different Nations arose in New Eden with a curse.

The curse of the Universe expecting them to share a Solar System.


Carry on.

In the corporate meritocracy, people earn their way into power. How is that not fair?

Fair, is of course a matter of perspective. What I believe you mean to bring attention to is the fact that, in the State, leaders are not chosen by the rank and file. There are two responses to this that I should like to give, one positive, and one negative.

As to the negative, the fact that a leader can appeal to the masses does not make them either moral or competent. Consider Jacques Roden, who has been long rumored to support Ultranationalist terrorist groups that believe in Gallente racial superiority (you may research old news feeds if you do not believe me). Or, from the Gallente perspective, consider Tibus Heth, who largely gained power by populist appeals. Working your way up, even if it does not necessarily guarantee moral integrity, certainly gives the people around you the opportunity to evaluate your character and capabilities.

On the positive side, it is not entirely true to say that Caldari do not pick their leaders. If a CEO (and remember that the Big Eight are not the only corporations in the State) mistreats his employees, they are likely to go elsewhere, and fewer people will purchase the products of the company. Yes, there are those who slip through the cracks, but that is true in every society. The reality is that the best means for ensuring innovation and production is to treat employees fairly and to protect them (as part of your investment) from harm.



The relation between performance and elect-ability has never been particularly strong. I don't think I need to provide explicit evidence for this, but let me point out that in Gallente society, it is rare for a candidate to be elected who is not backed by hordes of corporations, special interests, lobbyists, and advertising agencies. This means that leadership in the Federation is largely limited to those already endowed with power, wealth, and fame.

What you don't seem to understand - what, in fact, most Gallente don't seem to grasp - is that your system has flaws that are very visible to the rest of the cluster, and that your society does not, from the outside, seem better than the State when it comes to democratic leadership. Yes, you can theoretically vote for one person or another. But who is on the ballot is almost always picked for you.



Well, that statement could be used to defend any failure.

The real question is what works best for the Caldari. Now, we know that Gallente-style democracy does not, and we know this empirically. The Caldari were so eager to be out of the Federation that they risked their own extinction and conducted a long, destructive war to be free of the Federation. We also know that if you live in the State, obey the laws, and do your job, you will tend to have the highest standard of living in the cluster (as taken from the Galnet CONCORD description of the State). If you break the laws, do not work, and so forth, yes, you will be very miserable indeed. This is the Caldari way, it is the life learned growing up on a hostile planet that sought to kill us. Because of our discipline, work ethic, and meritocratic system, we have become the most militarily powerful nation in the cluster, the second-highest economic power, and the most technologically advanced.

I don't really know where is the problem. Caldari State is different than Federation. Federation is different than Empire. Empire is different than Republic and so on.


From when Roden is an Ultranationalist, the reason that he's company may employe such people dosn't mean he is one of them.

I would like to return to the assumption in the original post suggesting that because in the Gallentean model corporations are generally considered just a part of the society they are thus subservient of the society. As we well remember, the extrademocratic Black Eagles attempted some time ago to take over some corporate assets, but were rebuffed by corporate security. Several corporations presented their demands, leading to the end of the Foiritain presidency. At the moment, the principal owner and - I admit not checking - chairman of the board of Roden Shipyards is the Executor of the Gallente State, backed by the military-industrial complex.