EVE General Discussion

Dire, I do appreciate your attempt to poke fun at people... I really do. and honestly I have a raging desire to do the same. I am probably one of the biggest trolls you will ever find anywhere. hell, it's why I'm using this alt instead of one that people actually know.

that said, I truly am attempting to get people to accept a few facts that no one on either side seems to be focusing on except me, and to an extent tip since his writing and people's responses to it got my gears thinking harder. please don't troll on this issue. I really do think that people should switch from this focus (which is utterly pointless because most suicide gankers target ships that drop modules with high enough values to pay for the ganker's lost ships and modules and still pull a profit without insurance) and focus on how the insurance mechanic doesn't allocate for t2 ship values that are derived from moon goo more than they are from the minerals to make the t1 equivalent.

EDIT:
I mean... isn't that why this was brought up to begin with? people can't afford for replacement hulks they shouldn't fly since they can't afford to lose them, which in turn makes them hypocrites when they say back 'you shouldn't fly what you can't afford to lose'?

have insurance allocate for t2's and t3's, miners in hulks pay less out of pocket to replace, easing tensions and everyone wins.

I am aware of this. I am attempting to provide a fix so that the people whining about gankers getting insurance have an alternitive to focus on instead of this completely pointless topic.

This isn't about stopping suicide ganking. As you correctly stated, nobody will stop that as long as many 0.0 alliances are sponsoring it. This is about making this game a bit more realistic. Something that people who engage in activities that create a Concord response always hold so high, but the moment it is about making it a bit more realistic for them they are all up in arms.

The responses range from "it won't change anything" which would actually mean they should not be against the change since nothing will change for them to "this is how it has always been" which would indicate that they are living in caves because humans have way back when lived in caves and we should keep it how it always has been. Other arguments say that this game is not realistic - I guess the tag line "Eve is real" has not reached the cave that they have been living in.

Silent Lamb said it well: let's be blunt here.... this isn't WoW. it's EVE. you will get shot. you will lose ships. you will lose things you worked hard for. get over it.

I fully agree with the above statement. you will lose things and you should and those who engage in activities that are against Concord rules should lose their ship and not get insurance. HTFU as that nice Eve songs says. If you want to suicide gank, go for it, but don't be such a poor loser and whine if you don't get the insurance payout. Take it like a man (or woman)

I don’t mean to troll. Well, not only troll.

I take the real life comparisons seriously. Not because there’s any logical sense to them but rather because they display how thoroughly immersed the poster is in the game -- so immersed that the seemingly bizarre actions of an in game NPC corporation generates player outrage.

One certain reason for this outrage is that some players find it incredibly unfair to their preferred play style and that busts the game for them. I complement you on trying to navigate a solution to this.

Another reason may be that it’s so “illogical” and so “nonsensical” that it busts my precious immersion. One of the fascinating things about being pushed one suspension of disbelief too far is how the often unquestioning interjection “This is just absurd!” pops out with little recognition that a previous suspension of disbelief sits only inches away but doesn't destroy immersion.

Immersion isn’t terribly important in a game like chess but for a game like EvE it’s one of the central components. Given that, I think it’s worth exploring how immersion gets busted by a game mechanic like insurance.

DireNecessity

So if this change is implemented, then so should a change to Concord.

Then when you've done with that, actual space interaction should be changed. Because at the moment it's based upon underwater physics, rather than those of a vacuum.

I'm sure there are many many more we can change, in order to aid your sense of realism in this internet spaceship game.

protip for idiots: killing 22b worth of mackinaws doesn't get you 22b isk

No, but if you loot and salvage it does get you a few bill, and that's way more than you lost from the suicides.

Anyway, if you'll still gank even without insurance, then why should you care about this thread?

Hence the question: why does insurance need to be removed from ganks?

“Balance” is an interesting route to take it because it actually takes us down the only useful path: mechanics. But the question remain: why should it be removed? What is the problem? More specifically, in this case, where's the imbalance? What is the point of comparison? You're also mentioning abuses and unfair advantages — what are they (if they exist at all in this case)?

Oh yeah, my bad. Too lazy to actually click the link and misunderstanding the poster is the correct answer. No need to use offensive language my dear chap.

Either way, this:



still stands, thus making my previous statement no less valid.



Yes, now if you'd trained "Sence of humor" to lvl1 you wouldn't be so frustrated. Jokes aside, you still haven't responded to the actual content of my post.



My previous point still stands.

once again you're stating that you feel it should be more realistic...

ok, let's go down that route. Pend (a corporation that provides insurance and has no law enforcement responsibility) provides insurance to people that suicide gank ships. in the RL insurance companies for vehicles provide insurance to repeat drunk drivers, even after the drunk driver has killed people, served neglegable time in jail, and resumed their trucking career (not saying all truckers are drunk drivers, just giving a RL example that involved my older sister). the trucker goes on being insured at the same rates they had been 2 deaths and about 15 DUI's ago. they then kill the daughter of a city manager, who promptly does his damned best to make sure that brian casino (yes, that's his RL name) spends the rest of his days in jail, but lo and behold, within about 4 years of serving jail time after having killed a total of 3 or 4 people on different occasions over the 20 years he had been driving semi's drunk he's back out and insured at the same rates he had been for the longest time.

let's further the whole 'reality' thing and take it one step further. in RL, police are not invincible, and don't always win, even in mass numbers. what's more is that the 'really bad guys' do 'loot' the police they kill and use their own weapons and tech against them.

now that a bit of 'RL' on those areas has been highlighted, keeping in mind that it's a minority and not a majority that commit the crimes both in RL and in EVE, let's take this a step further.

if you negate the insurance it would need to be balanced out some how by bringing another RL factor into existence. but wait... when CONCORD was first brought into the game it was able to be destroyed and it wasn't considered an exploit or anything... and people could gank their targets as well as blow up CONCORD (which dropped some awesome loot).

so, I guess what I'm saying is that if you want reality, don't stop half way, go all the way. otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

as for making the game 'balanced' ... how exactly do you think removing the insurance payout is going to make it balanced? people will still suicide gank, make a profit from doing it, continue doing it while targeting those most vocal about this subject, and you'll still complain about losing exhumers and demand further action.

EDIT:
let's face it... the exhumer pilots don't want to admit they don't fly ships they can afford to lose... which is against common sense considering the nature of this game.