EVE Information Portal

Finding it hard to understand what me telling a troll to go do one has to to with the bounty system other than it was stated to enphisis the fact not all players who are continuing to play rather than to 'whine' as was stated by the post i was replying to where in fact happy and further more not all unhappy players chose to offer feedback and went strieght to playing something else instead..
on the subject of the bounty system though i totally disagree with you. The whole bounty system holds no valid in game pleasure unless your motives are to disrupt players who themselves dont want to PVP.
The game is kinda for 13 years and up so if a gang of vet players want to come to high sec to gank kiddies just starting out in the game and who are neither skilled nor mature enough to fully grasp every aspect of the game. these Players are not recognisable or distigushable from any vet player on their alt isk maker toon.. these younger players DO NEED to be protected from online bullying and that is all the new free for all bounty system is.

It appears that the issues this petition concerns are currently being addressed in your other petition which has been discussed by the Lead Game Masters. As the original issue this petition pertains to has been resolved, this petition will now be closed.

If you have any further comments concerning the bounty system then please feel free to update your other petition.

Best regards,
GM *******
EVE Online Customer Support

The other pet he is referring to is that the bounty office not only breaks ccp's own terms of player conduct but also that of international laws on cyber bullying:


pulled from on line legal definition of cyber bullying..
Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."[1][2]
A cyberbully may be a person whom the target knows or an online stranger. A cyberbully may be anonymous and may solicit involvement of other people online who do not even know the target. This is known as a 'digital pile-on.

The line between in game 'role playing' and cyberbullying is an issue CCP need to start taking seriously as they risk having Eve shut down due their new programming then how much 'fun fun fun' will all the trollers flamers and high sec gankers have? ..

There are more ways to engage in pvp than all the other activities added togerther.. so why do we need a system that forces a minority of players to pvp when the do not wish play that way?

To ccp dude who will want to pull this thread for the Pet copy over.. A CCP employee needs to make a public declaration regarding this matter as continued 'public' ignorance has left players with the belief that your silence is your conformation that they are right... when you are in fact consulting with legal to confirm the complaints are legitimate and not just whining....

+1..

Have removed the quote to keep my post.. however i too have received reply from in game pet stating pretty much the same thing.. time to tell the whole community CCP.. should have finished counting your 30 pieces of silver by now you have had nearly 2 weeks since the Retribution patch...upgrade..expansion...sorry lost track of what it was - although the majority giving ignored feed back would say 'Nurf'....

They don't have a choice. EvE is pvp. If you're mining, you're competing against other players for available resources. That's pvp. If you're trading, you're outbidding other players to sell your goods instead of theirs. Pvp. If you're running missions, you provide opportunities to other players (i.e. you are bait.) Pvp again. Unless you are in a station ship spinning, everything you do in-game is pvp. It's the nature of the sandbox. We're all squirrels fighting for nuts. Besides, getting bountied doesn't force you to engage in combat. But no matter what you're doing once you undock, you're pvp'ing.

Don't get me wrong, I think some valid points have been raised about the mechanics of the bounty system. Because this is an everybody vs. everybody else game, conceivably one day everyone might have a bounty. Does that enhance gameplay? Maybe. An argument can certainly be made then that this does, in fact, incentivize combat pvp over other pvp types. Which is probably good for the quality of pgc, but was New Eden meant to be a world of outlaws by design? Just for the way the huge "Wanted" tag diminishes the awesome character portraits I'm not a huge fan of that idea.

But I'm not buying the idea that in a game where, by definition, all activities are pvp, giving players new tools to pvp equates to cyberbullying.

Yonis Kador

12 years of gamming with an area in game called 'High sec' and an in game protection force called 'Concord' begs to differ.

Fact is, there is, when mining a very limited amount of ore you can get the increase in value to sec security is obvious too as with belt rat drops and with complexes.. the nearer to 1.0 you get the less value your mining is.. why will players be mining veld in 1.0 -0.8 if they cant do it piece? and if you dont join a big ass corp/alliance u got no chance to mine rarer ores at a high isk value..

fact is players play off the loss of income from high sec ores with increased profit from keep the same mining tub day in day out rather than run the gauntlet of low to no sec space.

It was stated some pages back that we don't live in crime-less communities and eve is only reflecting that.. and that was true until high sec lost all meaning.. sure you always had to keep an eye out for some jerk or pack of jerks roaming through high sec disrupting the activities of others - but now they get rewarded for it and the bounties are placed on players for reasons that do not respect cyber bullying laws and even CCP's own terms for player conduct and should be seen for what they are victimisation and bullying..

"We need to get back to our roots if that makes sense. I think EVE has become a little soft, as strange as it sounds. It’s really easy to make money, it’s pretty safe, it’s become too much of a happy fairy land where everyone holds hands and eats lollipops than the dystopian universe it’s supposed to be.

I basically want to give some people a special set of shovels to build massive sandcastles, while at the same time giving another set of players reinforced steel boots that come with directions to stomp said sandcastles. Winter is going to be a ton of fun, whether you like creating, or just tearing everything down."

--Kristoffer "CCP Soundwave" Touborg

Everything I wrote is accurate and my reading comprehension isn't the issue.

EvE is pvp.

"maybe a trip back to school could help you learn English better"

"please learn to read in english if you're going to post in an english forum"

"anyone over the minimum age of 13 should be able to understand this"

Have you considered that maybe the reason you were bountied wasn't because you expressed an opinion but the manner in which you did so? Learn some tact. This is, after all, a social game. With responses like that, I wouldn't be surprised if you get bountied again.

YK

Short and sweet,
Jukebox back please


Oh, and more realistic physics engine for ships .....with collisions =)

+1
I feel same. This is the worst business model for a MMO.
Maybe they dont want to integrate new players to game because the missions now incredible hard for new players.
This is not a good treat for new players if they will just suffer from painful gameplay instantly when they start play with Eve.

While hugely improved for virtual-fiscal wardec purposes, the Bounty system is still quite broken vs hi sec criminals.

Simply put

Competent Pirates use Moneylaundering

and bounties mainly provide just a little extra expense ISK when an extra gang member shoots them just as CONCORD attacks.



Just like RL organized crime, the guys who do the dirty work are dedicated sacrificial soldier peons with little to lose and the fatcats profiteers are isolated from Retribution by a firewall of moneylaundering legerdemain.

To get at the toons actually pocketing the big ISK from crime we need a skill called
"ISK Tracing"

similar to locator agents and RL

and of course a pirate skill "moneylaundering" to counter that (higher SP multiplier & less effective)

ISK tracing would not be instant but would be a EVEmail reply or hangar report delivery -- thus reducing EVE server CPU burden.



In EVE professional pirate toons are dedicated to flying nothing but destroyers and maybe the haulers to pick up loot. Maybe 2% fly something like a Tornado if they hunt bigger game. Even clone and implants costs maybe minimized. Due to negative impacts of wardecs most were already in dedicated pirate corps and alliances. With Retribution's corp and alliance bounties potentially footing bill for wardec they would be silly not to go dedicated in corp and alliance.

Actual pirate/gankers simply fly/have nothing of much value to bounty hunters. They transfer all the big loot and big ISK to another toon...possibly on another account. Nothing you can do to a professional pirate will get you Retribution for more than trivial losses (they messed up targets).

To get to the wiseguy toon really making use of the ill gotten gains of crime you need to be able to trace ISK. Following ships in EVE seldom yields an answer since "Give ISK" can jump anywhere without trace...currently.


Possible Details:

I suggest that "ISK Tracing" skill be difficult and not widespread among players.

Thus using the skill should require not only skill minimums for task (suggest x8 skill multipier) but also corp or alliance standings of 5.0 in addtion to personal standings of the appropriate type. Also certain effects should require corps with a certain minimum membership size. Membership size means its harder or more expensive to manipulate standings on a moments notice.

Skill level would dictate the size and frequency of ISK or property transfer necessary for tracking. Skill level 1 might for instance only see one time transfers of over 250 million ISK. Level 2 might detect one time transfers of over 50 million and transfers totalling over 250 million to the same toon/corp/alliance within the same day (10 million minimum transfer). Level 3 might expand to finding 100 million transferred to the same entity in 3 day period (5 million minimum transfer). Level 4 would find 100M in a week via sums as small as 1 Million. Level 5 would flag any entity with over 100 transfers in a month in addition to stuff of level 4 and below. Direct trade of items would count as the ISK value given by the inventory program.

Tracing could be either via CONCORD standings for all EVE members or via Factional Warfare corps with tracing to terminated once in hands of first foreign born citizen. That is factional based tracing could not trace ISK at all if the original pirate was foreign born and alliance/corp with 5.0 CONCORD could trace anywhere. Both of these political standings are intended to reflect governement trust and access.


Membership (reflecting widespread government contacts):
30 members would allow you to trace ISK transfers one toon distance from original pirate to the top 10 recipients.
300 members would allow you to trace ISK transfers two toons distant at a reduction in skill of 2 levels to the top 5 receivers.
3000 members would allow you to trace ISK transfers three toons distant at a skill level reduction of 3 less to the top 3 receivers.
There maybe a government agent fee similar to locator agent and it may vary by number of top recipients requested and distance of tracing.

It should be very difficult to trace ISK more than one level away from original pirate and only specialized (and probably expensive) corps should be so entrusted. They in turn probably would need to hire protection merc corps to avoid pirate assassins.

But for the proper fee you should be able to find out in couple days where the that pirate is sending his ill gotten gains...and place a bounty on the right guys.

Pirates and their bosses should of course be able to defend themsleves from this intrusion of government associates into their private business. But its a delicate matter to further obscure you tracks. Suggest skill "Moneylaundering" be at twice the SP multiplier as "ISK tracing" (hey you can afford +5 sets). Suggest that the level effects be a reduction in apparent size and frequency of transfers. Suggest that this be an active skill with bribes paid to NPC agents on a monthly basis -- perhaps by faction of effect. Perhaps the payment of bribes can be done at a lower level producing results lower than maximum skill level suggests is possible.

Only 6 players liked this post... compaired to the 1600+ post most of which are objecting in some way or another without reply and most with alot more likes..
CCP FAIL should have been the one to make this thread... IMHO

So far the only people I see with reinforced steel boots are employees as they stomp all over the mechanics of the game and a minority of players who just cannot be happy sharing a game with others who don't want to just shoot everything...
How many players really think that the Retribution expansion gave them 'steel boots'?? Not that many judging by the % of negative feedback.. I read once in a Eve form thread.. many moons ago that the vocal mass in the forum is a representation of the community as a whole... so based on the current feedback i'd say most players are p***ed..

CCP Soundwave got some things right in that quote though, they sure stomped all over the ability to make isk... unless you have the real world cash to buy extra PLEX to trade for isk tHowever players can no longer make as much isk as before Retribution .. Forcing more players to buy PLEX as a way of making extra isk...It seems self-defeating to me and it seems more like a way to make money selling PLEX than as a genuine concern about how easy it is to accumulate isk or they wouldn't like players basically getting free isk from selling PLEX. Also removing PLEX at this point would reduce the number of active account significantly and CCP know it and so they want to milk it.

by Necromancer

we have graded security systems for a reason that reason may not be clear to gun ho shooter gamers But the lower the level of security the more of the games content becomes open to the players. You have the choice to play at the level of security you feel you are ready for or the areas of the game which hold the content you wish to access.

Looks like CCP Soundwave forgot that basic isk making mechanic.. the lower the security the better the ore, rat drops, complex's and so on..
There is no disputing the lower the sec level of a system the better game content gets, if it wasn't there would be no need for big alliances to be fighting over sectors of null space that have the best resources They wold just be fighting in Jita. So if its now a defunct set of mechanics that plays no part in deciding how safe a system is to play in then why should high sec systems still be limited to crappy ores, and crappy loot drops? surely if we have to have a greater risk of PVP we should also get a greater portion of the game content to play with too?

I think CCP Soundwave has missed the concept of running a business, you cannot just put 1 item on the menu and expect every customer to like it, some will simply go to a better restaurant with more choice.. I guess that's ok if most of your patrons are to dumb to complain and just put up with it.

If you continue to try to force feed players something they don't want they will leave.. most business's I know of actually have a much lower profit margin than most people realize.. how large a % of Eve players (most with multiple accounts supported with PLEX bought with isk) need to quit before it hampers new game development or the ability to keep the very complex program (as repeatedly stressed by Dev's) working bug free?

There is more than enough ways to get into a dog fight or small fleet engagement or even large scale fleet battles.. so with all these ways of fighting why are players still avoiding direct conflict also known as PVP?

Maybe instead of trying to force regulated change to a game claimed to be an 'unscripted sandbox' you might try returning to a larger menu to appeal to the larger clientèle base that you actually have...

One last thing for all players who think everything in Eve is PVP...
PVP is player on player 'combat'.. The game has lots of content that does not include the need to open fire on another player.. Take fleets for instance if the only way to play is in constant conflict with all other players as the term 'everything is pvp' would suggest then there is no place for fleets because fleets are about co operation its PLAYERS V PLAYERS not player v player .. same with corps and alliances too if you participate in these things you are 'Interacting' not 'PVPing' ergo not everything is PVP