These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Winter] Ewar Tweaks for Retribution

First post First post
Author
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#241 - 2012-11-04 22:48:11 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Look at the damn TDs. The nerf here was very underdone. The base modules need more of a nerf espcially as they will be acquiring a new ability to fubar missiles. That is the real preasent and future danger. Plenty of folks fitting TDs in an available mid already. That could become even more so in the future even if the TD for missiles is made a second module and not a set of scripts. Regardless, the TD boats could supplant the ecm boats for most reviled ewar pita in the game. All the changes in the op are in the right direction.

People fit in their mids what is rather effective. Considering TD are only effective against turrets, that mean ECM are already so bad on unbonused hull people prefer to take the risk of their module to be useless each time a missile ship appear. What will be fited in the mid slots if EWAR become useless (or marginaly useful if you prefer) ?

I sometimes have the feel that the only tolerated modules in mid slots are shield tank modules. EWAR is supposed to be an advantage of armor tank, this advantage is already very thin and don't even account for the mobility loss, but what will that become if all EWAR is pointless on unbonused hull ?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#242 - 2012-11-04 22:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Quote:
*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)


This is definitely cool. You win EVE. Cool

edit: Sig radius could use a similar skill if you're willing to consider it. Smile
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#243 - 2012-11-05 00:55:56 UTC
Marzuq wrote:
ECM drones really need addressing.

ECM drones are ok, if not perfect, as is.

Before any further tweaking is done on ECM drones, the other EW drones need to be addressed, such that they actually get used in the game. This includes damp drones, target painter drones, TD drones, neut drones, and even the web drones (the addition of the lights and mediums is nice, but they still need a small buff to make them usable).

I think that the major problem with EW drones is the stacking penalty - it just adds up too quickly, esp. if you have also fit EW modules. The stacking penalty should be reduced - or eliminated - for drones, or applied only to a full flight (if you use less than a full flight, the full stacking penalty would still apply) rather than to each individual drone.
Lili Lu
#244 - 2012-11-05 01:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I'm also going to have to add my voice that four seperate skills doesn't seem the right way forward, the only things we have racial skills for are hull sizes (not even specialists) & guns/missiles. Everything else is a generic skill.


True, but each race of ships has a different method of targeting. And, the ecm modules were keyed onto each racial method of targeting. I don't think it is asking too much to make this a little difficult. Rank 3 and 4 different skills is only fair to ecm boat pilots. If it was just one skill and less than rank 3 then everyone would train it or as some say it would become a "mandatory" skill that everyone would train to 5, and it would be a pretty much automatic as large as possible nerf to ecm.

As it is presented in the OP it will be trained, but not always to 5 and if you have more races of ships that you already have skilled into as a veteran player, then you will have to expend more sp and time to gain the benefit for all of those ships. I say this as I finish my last cruiser 5 skill. It shouldn't be so easy. That is EVE.
Lili Lu
#245 - 2012-11-05 01:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Look at the damn TDs. The nerf here was very underdone. The base modules need more of a nerf espcially as they will be acquiring a new ability to fubar missiles. That is the real preasent and future danger. Plenty of folks fitting TDs in an available mid already. That could become even more so in the future even if the TD for missiles is made a second module and not a set of scripts. Regardless, the TD boats could supplant the ecm boats for most reviled ewar pita in the game. All the changes in the op are in the right direction.

People fit in their mids what is rather effective. Considering TD are only effective against turrets, that mean ECM are already so bad on unbonused hull people prefer to take the risk of their module to be useless each time a missile ship appear. What will be fited in the mid slots if EWAR become useless (or marginaly useful if you prefer) ?

I sometimes have the feel that the only tolerated modules in mid slots are shield tank modules. EWAR is supposed to be an advantage of armor tank, this advantage is already very thin and don't even account for the mobility loss, but what will that become if all EWAR is pointless on unbonused hull ?


Not so. Everyone can still fit a prop and tackle mod in a mid. So almost every ship is losing at least two slots from a shield tank (unless we're talking a fleet fit). And, even if the other racial ewar mods are not nerfed the same way ecm was, so that only the ecm boats are worth fitting it on, then people may still choose to fit damps, TDs, and painters. But currently a TD is too powerful in small ships that carry no bonuses for it's use. That should change.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#246 - 2012-11-05 01:58:10 UTC
Quote:
Not so. Everyone can still fit a prop and tackle mod in a mid. So almost every ship is losing at least two slots from a shield tank (unless we're talking a fleet fit). And, even if the other racial ewar mods are not nerfed the same way ecm was, so that only the ecm boats are worth fitting it on, then people may still choose to fit damps, TDs, and painters. But currently a TD is too powerful in small ships that carry no bonuses for it's use. That should change.

Please elaborate on why tracking disruptors are too effective on unbonused ships. Seriously, Ewar/utility is just about the only thing armor ships have going for them right now.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#247 - 2012-11-05 02:05:25 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Quote:
Not so. Everyone can still fit a prop and tackle mod in a mid. So almost every ship is losing at least two slots from a shield tank (unless we're talking a fleet fit). And, even if the other racial ewar mods are not nerfed the same way ecm was, so that only the ecm boats are worth fitting it on, then people may still choose to fit damps, TDs, and painters. But currently a TD is too powerful in small ships that carry no bonuses for it's use. That should change.

Please elaborate on why tracking disruptors are too effective on unbonused ships. Seriously, Ewar/utility is just about the only thing armor ships have going for them right now.



I don't know about too powerful but..

TD's are really ******* good.. They are why a hookbill with plates works ffs.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#248 - 2012-11-05 04:51:05 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Am I the only one here who thinks adding new skills to counter ECM is a really BAD idea? Does this game really need more "mandatory PvP skills" like this? The game is slow paced enough already without adding 4 more racial skills to train.

This.

With no disrespect towards the devs, It sort of gives out the impression (at least to me) that CCP can't figure out what to do with a problem at hand, and just took the easiest path to solve the issue. There are a bunch of great ideas on how to solve the ECM issue without resorting to something like this. Please Fozzie... read the previous posts Sad

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave

fukier
Brave Collective
#249 - 2012-11-05 05:03:18 UTC
lolz at all the noobs complaining about training new skills... take it from someone with over 100 mill sp... new skills are a welcome thing...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Destrachan Quest
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2012-11-05 06:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Destrachan Quest
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Am I the only one here who thinks adding new skills to counter ECM is a really BAD idea? Does this game really need more "mandatory PvP skills" like this? The game is slow paced enough already without adding 4 more racial skills to train.

This.

With no disrespect towards the devs, It sort of gives out the impression (at least to me) that CCP can't figure out what to do with a problem at hand, and just took the easiest path to solve the issue. There are a bunch of great ideas on how to solve the ECM issue without resorting to something like this. Please Fozzie... read the previous posts Sad

I seriously hope that CCP will reconsider the skills as a solution. Basically is is a 25% nerf to efficiency of ECM modules without any compensation whatsoever. The skills will become mandatory and ECM modules next to obsolete. (Skill training is not an issue, the concept of it is however)

The main problem is with small gangs which are logistics dominated. Adding 25% sensor strenght to ALL ships including logistics makes combating them next to impossible (unless you simply bring more). It will have a serious reprecussions on small gang combat in general and further encourage blobs.

I would much rather have skills affect ECCM module efficiency which at least doesn't have a blanket effect. Also ECM strenght bonused ships should be compensated somewhat (perhaps module cycle time reduction not to affect chance %).

Alternativelly if you are set on making it a counter ECM skill IT SHOULD AFFECT CYCLE TIME THAT YOU ARE JAMMED rather than the chance of actually jamming.

Secondly while I support some of the changes, the overall strategy of increasing bonuses to ships rather than modules is an issue as it reduces the abilty to theorycraft and explore the sandbox.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#251 - 2012-11-05 06:56:58 UTC
Disclaimer: I am an avid ECM user - I love ECM and frequently use it. I may have a bias towards it - but in general I love the use of electronic warfare in all combat environments. It adds flavor to the game and allows us to fit our ships in a more interest and creative way.

To the point, I do not believe there is necessarily a problem with ECM itself as much as it is laziness and tunnel vision on the part of other players. Yes, ECM can be agitating, as can be all other forms of E-War. But with current game mechanics there is already a solution to protecting yourself from ECM. This would be using Talon Implants and its other variants as well as fitting an ECCM module in order to counteract the use of ECM itself. ECM either works extremely effectively or burns in fire, based on the roll of the dice - Other E-War may not be as detrimental to the target, but provides a consistent crippling effect to the victim.

The issue that will arise is that current ships are all receiving a buff to their sensor strength in order to bring them into line with the tier 3 ships. Combine this with a possible 25% bonus (Most likely 20% flat bonus due to majority training the skill up to 4) as well as possible Talon implant set and the use of ECM will most likely have no point.

The other issue with a lot of people who complain about the use of ECM is that they see it as an unfair game mechanic. But fail to realize that it is more so the situation then ECM itself. I am fighting a guy, I engage him and we are going at it - I bring in my alt to provide ECM support and dispatch the person in question. I didn't win solely because of ECM, but more so because I turned the situation into a 2 vs. 1 Scenario. I could of done the exact same thing with an energy neutralizing Curse Alt, Rapier Alt, Dampening Alt or Tracking Disruptor Alt. ECM does benefit from being able to cover a larger amount of targets then other E-War, so its ability as a force multiplier is something that is very powerful. But if you apply the other E-War in the same fashion that ECM is applied we can realistically see that the favor is with pilot who cripples his enemy.

Essentially there are already counters to ECM, but people refuse to give up their perfect fit in order to fight against it. A passive bonus is a bad route as it takes away from the intelligence aspect of the game. The player does not have to try and figure out what their enemy will use against them and as such can just be passively and 100% prepared at all times against the use of ECM as an electronic warfare platform.

I do agree with the fact that ECM drones should have their mechanics changed - There have been many times that they have saved me. But I believe that for their investment they are too powerful and can dictate the fight outcome too easily. I believe the real changes is that other E-War needs to be improved in order to have their stacking penalties reduced and as such make them a more viable option.

TLDR;
1. Ship changes + ECM changes are creeping up to work together in order to cripple ECM's effectiveness drastically.
2. Often times the deciding factor isn't ECM itself as much as it is forethought by one player, 2 vs. 1 Scenarios, etc. If ECM gets nerfed ridiculously I will simply just change my alt to a dampening character, neuting or logistics character - it will have the same effect and a more predictable outcome.
3. There are already counters to ECM - Implant sets, ECCM, Drones on ECM boats, Lack of tank on ECM boats, drastically reduced effectiveness on NON-ECM boats
4. ECM drones should be reworked (Drop target, but not jam target)
5. Reduce stacking penalties on other electronic warfare modules and improve their effectiveness. Many of them are currently effective as is and can completely prevent a target from actively being involved in the fight.
6. ECM's main advantage is its ability to cover a large amount of targets .

Side Note: There have been times I've been fighting a guy and a curse warps in - Neuts out my active tank and turns off my guns. Frustrating - but apart of the game. Where I'm fighting a guy with short range or long range weaponry but have my tracking reduced to the point that I cannot get into an effective range and die in fire. Get dampened down to the point where my scan resolution takes a minute to target someone, or they are so far out my range that I cant target anything at all. Webbed to the point my ship cannot move and in doing so cannot retaliate.
Foxton Drive
Intervention Ltd
#252 - 2012-11-05 07:11:22 UTC
I haven't read through the rest of the thread, so it may have been suggested; but just as an idea:

What about changing the mechanics of ECM to breaking lock then applying a Scan Resolution debuff for 20 seconds? (This should be less than the effect of a scripted Remote Sensor Dampener with Scan Resolution Dampening Script).
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#253 - 2012-11-05 07:52:54 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Disclaimer: I am an avid ECM user - I love ECM and frequently use it. I may have a bias towards it - but in general I love the use of electronic warfare in all combat environments. It adds flavor to the game and allows us to fit our ships in a more interest and creative way.

To the point, I do not believe there is necessarily a problem with ECM itself as much as it is laziness and tunnel vision on the part of other players. Yes, ECM can be agitating, as can be all other forms of E-War. But with current game mechanics there is already a solution to protecting yourself from ECM. This would be using Talon Implants and its other variants as well as fitting an ECCM module in order to counteract the use of ECM itself. ECM either works extremely effectively or burns in fire, based on the roll of the dice - Other E-War may not be as detrimental to the target, but provides a consistent crippling effect to the victim.

The issue that will arise is that current ships are all receiving a buff to their sensor strength in order to bring them into line with the tier 3 ships. Combine this with a possible 25% bonus (Most likely 20% flat bonus due to majority training the skill up to 4) as well as possible Talon implant set and the use of ECM will most likely have no point.

The other issue with a lot of people who complain about the use of ECM is that they see it as an unfair game mechanic. But fail to realize that it is more so the situation then ECM itself. I am fighting a guy, I engage him and we are going at it - I bring in my alt to provide ECM support and dispatch the person in question. I didn't win solely because of ECM, but more so because I turned the situation into a 2 vs. 1 Scenario. I could of done the exact same thing with an energy neutralizing Curse Alt, Rapier Alt, Dampening Alt or Tracking Disruptor Alt. ECM does benefit from being able to cover a larger amount of targets then other E-War, so its ability as a force multiplier is something that is very powerful. But if you apply the other E-War in the same fashion that ECM is applied we can realistically see that the favor is with pilot who cripples his enemy.

Essentially there are already counters to ECM, but people refuse to give up their perfect fit in order to fight against it. A passive bonus is a bad route as it takes away from the intelligence aspect of the game. The player does not have to try and figure out what their enemy will use against them and as such can just be passively and 100% prepared at all times against the use of ECM as an electronic warfare platform.

I do agree with the fact that ECM drones should have their mechanics changed - There have been many times that they have saved me. But I believe that for their investment they are too powerful and can dictate the fight outcome too easily. I believe the real changes is that other E-War needs to be improved in order to have their stacking penalties reduced and as such make them a more viable option.

TLDR;
1. Ship changes + ECM changes are creeping up to work together in order to cripple ECM's effectiveness drastically.
2. Often times the deciding factor isn't ECM itself as much as it is forethought by one player, 2 vs. 1 Scenarios, etc. If ECM gets nerfed ridiculously I will simply just change my alt to a dampening character, neuting or logistics character - it will have the same effect and a more predictable outcome.
3. There are already counters to ECM - Implant sets, ECCM, Drones on ECM boats, Lack of tank on ECM boats, drastically reduced effectiveness on NON-ECM boats
4. ECM drones should be reworked (Drop target, but not jam target)
5. Reduce stacking penalties on other electronic warfare modules and improve their effectiveness. Many of them are currently effective as is and can completely prevent a target from actively being involved in the fight.
6. ECM's main advantage is its ability to cover a large amount of targets .

Side Note: There have been times I've been fighting a guy and a curse warps in - Neuts out my active tank and turns off my guns. Frustrating - but apart of the game. Where I'm fighting a guy with short range or long range weaponry but have my tracking reduced to the point that I cannot get into an effective range and die in fire. Get dampened down to the point where my scan resolution takes a minute to target someone, or they are so far out my range that I cant target anything at all. Webbed to the point my ship cannot move and in doing so cannot retaliate.


:) short comment

Being webbed and target painted by a rapier leaves the target unable to get away and avoid being hit (he can still return fire, but he risks getting the target he is shooting at to get out of range) this person being caught is still able to fight back, potentially killing someone in the process (he will probably say gf after he either gets killed or kills someone)

Being neuted to hell by a curse will leave the target unable to run cap using mods unless he has a cap booster, but if he uses missiles or projectiles he can still hit the target, he is likely to be tracking disrupted also, in this case, he needs to get close to his target or lower transversal.... this guy will probably say gf in local and might still be able to kill his target, at least he went down fightning

Jimmy gets sensordamped by Carl, but at least he isn't webbed and neuted yet so he burns towards Carl and is now within 5km with his blasters, Carl dies because sensordamps can be countered by getting close and they suck by themselves... but in a different scenario the sensor dampner is an arazu with long range scram, now Jimmy is caught at 20km+ by the scram from the arazu and his lock range is only 10km, unable to get closer to the arazu :D Carl kills Jimmy slowly by his bad dps... Jimmy says gf in local, at least Carl didn't use ECM

:D A falcon alt uncloaks, his owner is now dishonoring the entire world of PvP because ECM is bad...

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

OT Smithers
Perkone
Caldari State
#254 - 2012-11-05 07:58:03 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Disclaimer: I am an avid ECM user - I love ECM and frequently use it. I may have a bias towards it - but in general I love the use of electronic warfare in all combat environments. It adds flavor to the game and allows us to fit our ships in a more interest and creative way.

To the point, I do not believe there is necessarily a problem with ECM itself as much as it is laziness and tunnel vision on the part of other players. Yes, ECM can be agitating, as can be all other forms of E-War. But with current game mechanics there is already a solution to protecting yourself from ECM. This would be using Talon Implants and its other variants as well as fitting an ECCM module in order to counteract the use of ECM itself. ECM either works extremely effectively or burns in fire, based on the roll of the dice - Other E-War may not be as detrimental to the target, but provides a consistent crippling effect to the victim.

The issue that will arise is that current ships are all receiving a buff to their sensor strength in order to bring them into line with the tier 3 ships. Combine this with a possible 25% bonus (Most likely 20% flat bonus due to majority training the skill up to 4) as well as possible Talon implant set and the use of ECM will most likely have no point.

The other issue with a lot of people who complain about the use of ECM is that they see it as an unfair game mechanic. But fail to realize that it is more so the situation then ECM itself. I am fighting a guy, I engage him and we are going at it - I bring in my alt to provide ECM support and dispatch the person in question. I didn't win solely because of ECM, but more so because I turned the situation into a 2 vs. 1 Scenario. I could of done the exact same thing with an energy neutralizing Curse Alt, Rapier Alt, Dampening Alt or Tracking Disruptor Alt. ECM does benefit from being able to cover a larger amount of targets then other E-War, so its ability as a force multiplier is something that is very powerful. But if you apply the other E-War in the same fashion that ECM is applied we can realistically see that the favor is with pilot who cripples his enemy.

Essentially there are already counters to ECM, but people refuse to give up their perfect fit in order to fight against it. A passive bonus is a bad route as it takes away from the intelligence aspect of the game. The player does not have to try and figure out what their enemy will use against them and as such can just be passively and 100% prepared at all times against the use of ECM as an electronic warfare platform.

I do agree with the fact that ECM drones should have their mechanics changed - There have been many times that they have saved me. But I believe that for their investment they are too powerful and can dictate the fight outcome too easily. I believe the real changes is that other E-War needs to be improved in order to have their stacking penalties reduced and as such make them a more viable option.

TLDR;
1. Ship changes + ECM changes are creeping up to work together in order to cripple ECM's effectiveness drastically.
2. Often times the deciding factor isn't ECM itself as much as it is forethought by one player, 2 vs. 1 Scenarios, etc. If ECM gets nerfed ridiculously I will simply just change my alt to a dampening character, neuting or logistics character - it will have the same effect and a more predictable outcome.
3. There are already counters to ECM - Implant sets, ECCM, Drones on ECM boats, Lack of tank on ECM boats, drastically reduced effectiveness on NON-ECM boats
4. ECM drones should be reworked (Drop target, but not jam target)
5. Reduce stacking penalties on other electronic warfare modules and improve their effectiveness. Many of them are currently effective as is and can completely prevent a target from actively being involved in the fight.
6. ECM's main advantage is its ability to cover a large amount of targets .

Side Note: There have been times I've been fighting a guy and a curse warps in - Neuts out my active tank and turns off my guns. Frustrating - but apart of the game. Where I'm fighting a guy with short range or long range weaponry but have my tracking reduced to the point that I cannot get into an effective range and die in fire. Get dampened down to the point where my scan resolution takes a minute to target someone, or they are so far out my range that I cant target anything at all. Webbed to the point my ship cannot move and in doing so cannot retaliate.



All of this is correct. However...

This is a game people play for fun, and a huge number of people have said that ECM is not fun. It's true that ECM is not objectively overpowered, but to the guy on the recieving end of a successful jam, it feels like it is. So instead CCP is going to basically break ECM. That's easier for them.

Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#255 - 2012-11-05 08:52:03 UTC
Those skills could have been the way to make ECCM useful.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#256 - 2012-11-05 09:33:52 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Those skills could have been the way to make ECCM useful.


This I agree with. I could care less if an ECCM module made it so my ECM doesn't even work at all. Because atleast the other player would have to use a module in question to prepare for the situation. A passive bonus though that drastically reduces effectiveness with little to no effort is just uninspiring and lame.
960ApofiS069
hirr
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#257 - 2012-11-05 09:48:49 UTC
hey fuzzie any new dev hacks for pathetic legione ? or some hidden game mechanics ? u dont need to share stuff only with shado

have 2 questions for u: (which ofc wont be answered)

every1 talking about pl metagaming, can u as GM and ccp member tell us how a GM can help some ali aginst other ali ? since no1 is controling GMs, u know spying, account disconnecting and so..

those pl banned accounts for rmt, are those isk still on those accounts ?

ps: gj on killing this game, guild wars 2 ftw
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2012-11-05 10:00:45 UTC
960ApofiS069 wrote:
hey fuzzie any new dev hacks for pathetic legione ? or some hidden game mechanics ? u dont need to share stuff only with shado

have 2 questions for u: (which ofc wont be answered)

every1 talking about pl metagaming, can u as GM and ccp member tell us how a GM can help some ali aginst other ali ? since no1 is controling GMs, u know spying, account disconnecting and so..

those pl banned accounts for rmt, are those isk still on those accounts ?

ps: gj on killing this game, guild wars 2 ftw


lol, bitter much.

now back to topic.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#259 - 2012-11-05 10:03:01 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Those skills could have been the way to make ECCM useful.


agreed

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#260 - 2012-11-05 10:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

One change to report at this time, we're extending the range boost to the Kitsune as well.

I'd also like to address the questions about why we've chosen skills as the route to increase sensor strength. Compared to just nerfing the base values of ECM or increasing the sensor strength of all ships, using skills provides new choices that players can make about priorities. Decisions like whether to train your sensor compensation skill to 4 or get and extra level of surgical strike, whether you should train another race's sensor corp or focus on your favorite race in order to specialize, are the kind of choices the skill system is designed to create.

We also believe that providing skills to help defend against things like ewar gives useful tools to players. With the introduction of these sensor comp skills there will be skills that mitigate every form of ewar except target painters. As we move forward I would not be averse to adding a sig radius reducing skill as well, as part of a general movement towards making signature radius more noticeable to everyday pilots.

As for the choice to make four skills instead of one, a basic premise of the eve skill system has always been that a newer player can overtake an older player in ability through specialization. Instead of making older players unbeatable the skill system is intended to use generalization and increased options as the benefits for older players, while giving newer player the option to be just about as good as anyone else at specific roles and specific sets of ships while they work towards adding more options for themselves. The four skills allow a newer player who focuses on one race first to get the same resistance to ECM as a much older player while only investing 1/4 the SP. Players are also welcome to broaden their scope, and training the first few levels of each skill will be a very quick affair, while getting them to level 5 for the last 5% bonus would require significant investment.

To answer one other question we're getting about unprobable ships, these skills will not make any ships unprobable since becoming unprobable was made impossible a little over a year ago. They will however make probing ships more difficult and some ships may require higher skill levels and better equipment to catch.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie