Player Features and Ideas Discussion

People fit in their mids what is rather effective. Considering TD are only effective against turrets, that mean ECM are already so bad on unbonused hull people prefer to take the risk of their module to be useless each time a missile ship appear. What will be fited in the mid slots if EWAR become useless (or marginaly useful if you prefer) ?

I sometimes have the feel that the only tolerated modules in mid slots are shield tank modules. EWAR is supposed to be an advantage of armor tank, this advantage is already very thin and don't even account for the mobility loss, but what will that become if all EWAR is pointless on unbonused hull ?

ECM drones are ok, if not perfect, as is.

Before any further tweaking is done on ECM drones, the other EW drones need to be addressed, such that they actually get used in the game. This includes damp drones, target painter drones, TD drones, neut drones, and even the web drones (the addition of the lights and mediums is nice, but they still need a small buff to make them usable).

I think that the major problem with EW drones is the stacking penalty - it just adds up too quickly, esp. if you have also fit EW modules. The stacking penalty should be reduced - or eliminated - for drones, or applied only to a full flight (if you use less than a full flight, the full stacking penalty would still apply) rather than to each individual drone.

Not so. Everyone can still fit a prop and tackle mod in a mid. So almost every ship is losing at least two slots from a shield tank (unless we're talking a fleet fit). And, even if the other racial ewar mods are not nerfed the same way ecm was, so that only the ecm boats are worth fitting it on, then people may still choose to fit damps, TDs, and painters. But currently a TD is too powerful in small ships that carry no bonuses for it's use. That should change.

I don't know about too powerful but..

TD's are really ******* good.. They are why a hookbill with plates works ffs.

lolz at all the noobs complaining about training new skills... take it from someone with over 100 mill sp... new skills are a welcome thing...

Disclaimer: I am an avid ECM user - I love ECM and frequently use it. I may have a bias towards it - but in general I love the use of electronic warfare in all combat environments. It adds flavor to the game and allows us to fit our ships in a more interest and creative way.

To the point, I do not believe there is necessarily a problem with ECM itself as much as it is laziness and tunnel vision on the part of other players. Yes, ECM can be agitating, as can be all other forms of E-War. But with current game mechanics there is already a solution to protecting yourself from ECM. This would be using Talon Implants and its other variants as well as fitting an ECCM module in order to counteract the use of ECM itself. ECM either works extremely effectively or burns in fire, based on the roll of the dice - Other E-War may not be as detrimental to the target, but provides a consistent crippling effect to the victim.

The issue that will arise is that current ships are all receiving a buff to their sensor strength in order to bring them into line with the tier 3 ships. Combine this with a possible 25% bonus (Most likely 20% flat bonus due to majority training the skill up to 4) as well as possible Talon implant set and the use of ECM will most likely have no point.

The other issue with a lot of people who complain about the use of ECM is that they see it as an unfair game mechanic. But fail to realize that it is more so the situation then ECM itself. I am fighting a guy, I engage him and we are going at it - I bring in my alt to provide ECM support and dispatch the person in question. I didn't win solely because of ECM, but more so because I turned the situation into a 2 vs. 1 Scenario. I could of done the exact same thing with an energy neutralizing Curse Alt, Rapier Alt, Dampening Alt or Tracking Disruptor Alt. ECM does benefit from being able to cover a larger amount of targets then other E-War, so its ability as a force multiplier is something that is very powerful. But if you apply the other E-War in the same fashion that ECM is applied we can realistically see that the favor is with pilot who cripples his enemy.

Essentially there are already counters to ECM, but people refuse to give up their perfect fit in order to fight against it. A passive bonus is a bad route as it takes away from the intelligence aspect of the game. The player does not have to try and figure out what their enemy will use against them and as such can just be passively and 100% prepared at all times against the use of ECM as an electronic warfare platform.

I do agree with the fact that ECM drones should have their mechanics changed - There have been many times that they have saved me. But I believe that for their investment they are too powerful and can dictate the fight outcome too easily. I believe the real changes is that other E-War needs to be improved in order to have their stacking penalties reduced and as such make them a more viable option.

TLDR;
1. Ship changes + ECM changes are creeping up to work together in order to cripple ECM's effectiveness drastically.
2. Often times the deciding factor isn't ECM itself as much as it is forethought by one player, 2 vs. 1 Scenarios, etc. If ECM gets nerfed ridiculously I will simply just change my alt to a dampening character, neuting or logistics character - it will have the same effect and a more predictable outcome.
3. There are already counters to ECM - Implant sets, ECCM, Drones on ECM boats, Lack of tank on ECM boats, drastically reduced effectiveness on NON-ECM boats
4. ECM drones should be reworked (Drop target, but not jam target)
5. Reduce stacking penalties on other electronic warfare modules and improve their effectiveness. Many of them are currently effective as is and can completely prevent a target from actively being involved in the fight.
6. ECM's main advantage is its ability to cover a large amount of targets .

Side Note: There have been times I've been fighting a guy and a curse warps in - Neuts out my active tank and turns off my guns. Frustrating - but apart of the game. Where I'm fighting a guy with short range or long range weaponry but have my tracking reduced to the point that I cannot get into an effective range and die in fire. Get dampened down to the point where my scan resolution takes a minute to target someone, or they are so far out my range that I cant target anything at all. Webbed to the point my ship cannot move and in doing so cannot retaliate.

:) short comment

Being webbed and target painted by a rapier leaves the target unable to get away and avoid being hit (he can still return fire, but he risks getting the target he is shooting at to get out of range) this person being caught is still able to fight back, potentially killing someone in the process (he will probably say gf after he either gets killed or kills someone)

Being neuted to hell by a curse will leave the target unable to run cap using mods unless he has a cap booster, but if he uses missiles or projectiles he can still hit the target, he is likely to be tracking disrupted also, in this case, he needs to get close to his target or lower transversal.... this guy will probably say gf in local and might still be able to kill his target, at least he went down fightning

Jimmy gets sensordamped by Carl, but at least he isn't webbed and neuted yet so he burns towards Carl and is now within 5km with his blasters, Carl dies because sensordamps can be countered by getting close and they suck by themselves... but in a different scenario the sensor dampner is an arazu with long range scram, now Jimmy is caught at 20km+ by the scram from the arazu and his lock range is only 10km, unable to get closer to the arazu :D Carl kills Jimmy slowly by his bad dps... Jimmy says gf in local, at least Carl didn't use ECM

:D A falcon alt uncloaks, his owner is now dishonoring the entire world of PvP because ECM is bad...

Those skills could have been the way to make ECCM useful.

hey fuzzie any new dev hacks for pathetic legione ? or some hidden game mechanics ? u dont need to share stuff only with shado

have 2 questions for u: (which ofc wont be answered)

every1 talking about pl metagaming, can u as GM and ccp member tell us how a GM can help some ali aginst other ali ? since no1 is controling GMs, u know spying, account disconnecting and so..

those pl banned accounts for rmt, are those isk still on those accounts ?

ps: gj on killing this game, guild wars 2 ftw

agreed