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[Winter] Ewar Tweaks for Retribution

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VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#541 - 2012-12-02 11:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: VegasMirage
Commander Ted wrote:
If you don't train the skill you will only be as terrible as you are now. If you do train the skill you are less likely to get falcon'd. Whats the big deal?


what's terrible are all these players crying about ECM - I'm amazed

So, you take a Cane add a ladar ECCM which virtually doubles your sensor strength add in the low grade Jackal set (which are CHEAP!!!) and these new skills and your sensor strength is more than a carrier.

What I see over the past 6 months is CCP making it harder to kill each other in small gang combat, from over tanking the world with ASB's to now making jamming ineffective...

and for the EWAR pilots who spent 6 months maxing their skills out only to be told you're doing it wrong - how about paying them back? Cause I'm not seeing the benefit of having 1 pilot dedicated to ECM any longer when before the changes you had a chance to jam with 2 racials and after retribution your chances of jamming a Cane with the worse sensor strength of ALL BC's will be at an all time low of about 1 in 4 chances.

why are you focusing on useless **** that's more of an annoyance than a broken mechanic - it's all the newbie point whoring solo PVP'ers who think ECM is ruining their chances to win fights - WHEN REALLY they shoulda planned for ECM

You're all a bunch of care bears wanting predictable pvp engagements. That is all!

Btw when can I buy my skill-books?

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#542 - 2012-12-03 13:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1.


Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement. Big smile

We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level.

The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result.

So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level.


No one comments on this?
Someone asks for a buff of that new ECCM skill and CCP agrees, but actually NERFS the skill. o_O

Skill points per rank
level 1 - 250
level 2 - 1415
level 3 - 8000
level 4 - 45255
level 5 - 256000

ECCM skill rank 3, 5% (previous version):
750 - 5%
4245 - 10%
24000 - 15%
135765 - 20%
768000 - 25%

ECCM skill rank 2, 4% ("improved" version):
500 - 4%
2830 - 8%
16000 - 12%
90510 - 16%
512000 - 20%

More specific:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result.


So now, I can never get the 25%.
But in addition, to get 20% bonus I need to train 512000 SP instead of 135765 SP?!?
Or 16% for 90510 SP should maybe be better than 15% for 24000 SP?
Please elaborate that "better bang" part.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#543 - 2012-12-03 15:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Marian Devers
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
So why is the "5%" nerf to tracking disruptors a different kind of "5%" from every other "5%" change you are making?

Edit: Your statement also applies sometimes to afterburner V


Because it seemed clearer that way, I may have been wrong about that but I think most people get what's going on.

Good point about the afterburner skill, although take a look at it on Buckingham you'll be pleasantly surprised.


Right. So anyway for people that have trained the AB skill to level 5 to have it fall back to level 2? Because there really is no viable reason to train it any higher for pvp, or at least I can't see it.

Edit: I'd also like to hear one viable reason on why you implemented this change. Was the old skill overpowered?
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#544 - 2012-12-03 16:50:11 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1.


Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement. Big smile

We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level.

The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result.

So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level.


No one comments on this?
Someone asks for a buff of that new ECCM skill and CCP agrees, but actually NERFS the skill. o_O

Skill points per rank
level 1 - 250
level 2 - 1415
level 3 - 8000
level 4 - 45255
level 5 - 256000

ECCM skill rank 3, 5% (previous version):
750 - 5%
4245 - 10%
24000 - 15%
135765 - 20%
768000 - 25%

ECCM skill rank 2, 4% ("improved" version):
500 - 4%
2830 - 8%
16000 - 12%
90510 - 16%
512000 - 20%

More specific:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result.


So now, I can never get the 25%.
But in addition, to get 20% bonus I need to train 512000 SP instead of 135765 SP?!?
Or 16% for 90510 SP should maybe be better than 15% for 24000 SP?
Please elaborate that "better bang" part.


hopefully CCP realized that players in Retri were going to turn into POS Mods... ever try and jam a POS Mod? They need to nerf this skill some more and remove low slot back up arrays.

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#545 - 2012-12-03 21:37:19 UTC
Why nerf ecm even more?
You nerfed the drake tengu and falcon , the only viable caldari ships . GJ

Go delete caldari already....

Oh and matar gets the biggest boost who thought?:O
Especially with the sensor str boosts , lame balancing again.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#546 - 2012-12-03 21:40:08 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Why nerf ecm even more?
You nerfed the drake tengu and falcon , the only viable caldari ships . GJ

Go delete caldari already....

Oh and matar gets the biggest boost who thought?:O
Especially with the sensor str boosts , lame balancing again.


How is a % based bonus favoring the race with the lowest sensor strength?
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#547 - 2012-12-03 22:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Michael Harari wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
Why nerf ecm even more?
You nerfed the drake tengu and falcon , the only viable caldari ships . GJ

Go delete caldari already....

Oh and matar gets the biggest boost who thought?:O
Especially with the sensor str boosts , lame balancing again.


How is a % based bonus favoring the race with the lowest sensor strength?


Hello

Glad you asked.

So we all know the minmatar is the weakest versus ecm .

If you weaken or take out ecm , you taken out one of the hard counter vs minmatar.
Which makes it relatively stronger.As much less ecm ships will be deployed/used cause their efficiency is nerfed.

Fe:

You have 2 ships A and B.
A has low ecm resist , B has high ecm resist . They have same everything else. So if you run into an ecm ship A will loose 70% of a time B loose only 40% time. If you run into a non ecm ship A has 20% B has 50% to loose.
Lets say you have 30% chance to run into ecm ship.
From these datas we get:
A: 0.7*0.3+0.2*0.7= 35% chance to loose
B: 0.4*0.3+0.5*0.7= 47% chance to loose


But devs decide that it is wise to both reduce all kinetic dmg and boost kinetic resists at the same time for some stupid reason.
(I quess it is clear why less ecm ships will be used than now due to these nerfs.)
Which changes the chance to run into ecm ship from 30% to 20%.
With new data:
A: 0.7*0.2+0.2*0.8=30% chance to loose.
B: 0.4*0.2+0.5*0.8=48% chance to loose.

you can see that A got a pretty boost while B more or less the same
oh A represented winmatard
B represented faildari missilecrap

You can see A is boosted relatively to B.

Bottom line if devs nerf something which your ship isnt good against your ship gets a boost relative to other types , which are better vs that thing devs nerfed.

hope my math is good it is late now :P
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#548 - 2012-12-03 22:52:17 UTC
I wish you luck in treating your brain tumor
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#549 - 2012-12-04 10:36:06 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.
Enzo Irarref
Unified Combatants
#550 - 2012-12-04 12:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Enzo Irarref
VegasMirage wrote:

What I see over the past 6 months is CCP making it harder to kill each other in small gang combat, from over tanking the world with ASB's to now making jamming ineffective...


a whopping nerf to the falcon and not even a single CCP comment on it.

edit: "who do you think they listen to, small gangs? lol"