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[Proposal] Remove AFK cloaking

First post
Author
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#61 - 2012-10-11 07:35:49 UTC
Is that afk guy in local bother you?

The solution is simple make the afk guy disappear from local when he cloaks.


There now he won't be bother you now won't you?

Seriously AFK Cloaking is only as bad is the mind allows it to be.

The only people I see whining are ratters and botters who want to mine in complete safety in 0.0.

HTFU.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#62 - 2012-10-11 10:40:02 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Is that afk guy in local bother you?

The solution is simple make the afk guy disappear from local when he cloaks.


There now he won't be bother you now won't you?

Seriously AFK Cloaking is only as bad is the mind allows it to be.

The only people I see whining are ratters and botters who want to mine in complete safety in 0.0.

HTFU.


QFT
maciek9
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#63 - 2012-10-15 10:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: maciek9
oh yes, +1 to the idea,

lets force those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


PS. It will never happen tho, afk cloakers are usually 4th, or 5th account of the same guy, its pure profit for CCP, hence they will not address this issue. Just deal with it i guess :P
Arduemont
The State of War.
#64 - 2012-10-15 14:00:16 UTC
maciek9 wrote:
those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


Wait, sorry.... Who's a cry baby? The afker, who is afk, or the crybaby crying about the afker, who is afk?

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

maciek9
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#65 - 2012-10-15 16:13:31 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


Wait, sorry.... Who's a cry baby? The afker, who is afk, or the crybaby crying about the afker, who is afk?



ofc cloakers who cry at every attempt to target their immunity in nullsec. Theres a place for this way of playstyle in eve --> Hisec

you can stay there for ages without anyone targeting you, dont even have to turn on cloak ^^

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#66 - 2012-10-16 02:41:10 UTC
maciek9 wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


Wait, sorry.... Who's a cry baby? The afker, who is afk, or the crybaby crying about the afker, who is afk?



ofc cloakers who cry at every attempt to target their immunity in nullsec. Theres a place for this way of playstyle in eve --> Hisec

you can stay there for ages without anyone targeting you, dont even have to turn on cloak ^^


No, active cloakers "cry" at every attempt to completely destroy their play style.

Almost every suggestion to "counter" afk cloaking will completely eliminate the feasibility of traditional cloaky activities.



Interestingly, the two suggestions that don't do that have nothing to do with cloaks, rather local and cynos.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#67 - 2012-10-16 05:04:56 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Interestingly, the two suggestions that don't do that have nothing to do with cloaks, rather local and cynos.


I've always been of the opinion that the proposed local changes are too much. The idea of a black-ops cyno jammer I see no problem with, except that It wouldn't stop people whining about cloakies.

I spent all yesterday evening chasing and camping four cloakies. Some of them were almost definitely afk, and they rarely moved about. It does get a little tedious, but we got one of them, and I am more than happy to chase the others around for Home Defence purposes. I've always laughed at people complaining about them, because I've had to deal with people doing it since very early in my Eve career and never really had any problems with them. It always infuriates me that people just come straight to the forums to whine that there is "No counter to afk cloaking".

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

maciek9
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#68 - 2012-10-16 09:25:42 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


Wait, sorry.... Who's a cry baby? The afker, who is afk, or the crybaby crying about the afker, who is afk?



ofc cloakers who cry at every attempt to target their immunity in nullsec. Theres a place for this way of playstyle in eve --> Hisec

you can stay there for ages without anyone targeting you, dont even have to turn on cloak ^^


No, active cloakers "cry" at every attempt to completely destroy their play style.

Almost every suggestion to "counter" afk cloaking will completely eliminate the feasibility of traditional cloaky activities.



Interestingly, the two suggestions that don't do that have nothing to do with cloaks, rather local and cynos.


Well most solutions I saw would only force them to move few km every half hour (ie. the probing sugestion). If thats to much
of an activity in nullspace for them. Well no comment.

It's just silly for me that in game suposed to be all about technology you can use magic invisibility hat, that saves you
from pvp in a place made for pvp.

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#69 - 2012-10-16 13:55:44 UTC
maciek9 wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


Wait, sorry.... Who's a cry baby? The afker, who is afk, or the crybaby crying about the afker, who is afk?



ofc cloakers who cry at every attempt to target their immunity in nullsec. Theres a place for this way of playstyle in eve --> Hisec

you can stay there for ages without anyone targeting you, dont even have to turn on cloak ^^



If anyone needs a ticket back to bloody hisec its the nullbears who cry their eyes out because - gasp - another player is in the same system as they are. The fact that you want CCP to introduce mechanics that will allow you to kill AFK players is utterly idiotic, and it speaks volumes about how bad of a player you are. You can't fight someone who's active, so you want CCP to give you a kill button on players who aren't there. What's next, you want them to let you kill players who are docked? Ones who are logged off?

If you can't deal with that little name in local, get the hell out of nullsec because you are terrible and have no claim to the rewards of 0.0
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#70 - 2012-10-16 14:04:58 UTC
maciek9 wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
maciek9 wrote:
those afk crybabies to do some PvP while they are in nullsec


Wait, sorry.... Who's a cry baby? The afker, who is afk, or the crybaby crying about the afker, who is afk?



ofc cloakers who cry at every attempt to target their immunity in nullsec. Theres a place for this way of playstyle in eve --> Hisec

you can stay there for ages without anyone targeting you, dont even have to turn on cloak ^^


No, active cloakers "cry" at every attempt to completely destroy their play style.

Almost every suggestion to "counter" afk cloaking will completely eliminate the feasibility of traditional cloaky activities.



Interestingly, the two suggestions that don't do that have nothing to do with cloaks, rather local and cynos.


Well most solutions I saw would only force them to move few km every half hour (ie. the probing sugestion). If thats to much
of an activity in nullspace for them. Well no comment.

It's just silly for me that in game suposed to be all about technology you can use magic invisibility hat, that saves you
from pvp in a place made for pvp.



Did you even think this through? It's a stupid suggestion, so if you honestly think it's a "solution" (and I use that term loosely, as there isn't an actual problem) then... you may not be too bright.

Lets break it down.

It hinders active playing - reconnaissance can rely on sitting in a key location and watching whats happening, or moving into an advantageous position and waiting for the right opportunity to hit. Forcing these pilots to constantly move ruins that.

So far, that's one big negative to active players.

Lets move on to AFK players, and see how this change would affect them

AFK player double clicks in arbitrary direction, leaving his ship to float in that direction forever.

Oh look at that, they're moving, so this system doesn't do a damn thing to AFK cloakers.

So your suggestion doesn't "help" against AFKs, but works against actives.

And we're back to square one: The fact that nullbears are the biggest cowards in EVE, bigger than even the hisec bears - who at least have the balls to admit they don't want to risk their stuff.
maciek9
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#71 - 2012-10-16 14:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: maciek9
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


Did you even think this through? It's a stupid suggestion, so if you honestly think it's a "solution" (and I use that term loosely, as there isn't an actual problem) then... you may not be too bright.

Lets break it down.

It hinders active playing - reconnaissance can rely on sitting in a key location and watching whats happening, or moving into an advantageous position and waiting for the right opportunity to hit. Forcing these pilots to constantly move ruins that.

So far, that's one big negative to active players.

Lets move on to AFK players, and see how this change would affect them

AFK player double clicks in arbitrary direction, leaving his ship to float in that direction forever.

Oh look at that, they're moving, so this system doesn't do a damn thing to AFK cloakers.

So your suggestion doesn't "help" against AFKs, but works against actives.

And we're back to square one: The fact that nullbears are the biggest cowards in EVE, bigger than even the hisec bears - who at least have the balls to admit they don't want to risk their stuff.


Noone says its as simple as putting probes and scanning cloakers down in 5 sec, clearly rage hinders your ability to
see the problem here and what the solutions proposed are.

And so far the afk cloakers are worst cowards in nullsec, carebears coming to null know they may be forced to fight,
cloakers dont have to bother with that. No to afk living in null i say :P
Arduemont
The State of War.
#72 - 2012-10-16 18:50:46 UTC
maciek9 wrote:

Noone says its as simple as putting probes and scanning cloakers down in 5 sec, clearly rage hinders your ability to
see the problem here and what the solutions proposed are.

And so far the afk cloakers are worst cowards in nullsec, carebears coming to null know they may be forced to fight,
cloakers dont have to bother with that. No to afk living in null i say :P


Clearly rage and fear makes you see a problem here (When there isn't one). I don't see one at all. I deal with cloakies on a daily basis, there is no problem. Camping your system? Move next door. If he follows you he's not afk, therefore set up a gate camp and catch him.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#73 - 2012-10-17 10:30:48 UTC
maciek9 wrote:
Noone says its as simple as putting probes and scanning cloakers down in 5 sec, clearly rage hinders your ability to
see the problem here and what the solutions proposed are.

And so far the afk cloakers are worst cowards in nullsec, carebears coming to null know they may be forced to fight,
cloakers dont have to bother with that. No to afk living in null i say :P


Can you read, fella? I never inferred your (terrible) "solution" to be a very quick and easy 5-second probe job, the points I made hold true even if your (terrible) "solution" is a much longer and more complicated process.

The bottom line is it interferes with legitimate, active reconnaissance pilots, while doing nothing to actual AFK players (ps AFK players are effectively none-entities, there is no need to do anything to them in the first place).

Ignorance of the activities, how they work, how long they take and how your (terrible) "solution" would ruin them can be excused - I can hardly expect a stupid carebear who does nothing but mine or shoot rats to understand such things, after all. Reconnaissance takes time. It's not unusual for an active scout to sit in one location for extended periods of time, whether thats sitting at a tower watching a fleet form and relaying information or waiting in a particular strategic location ready to decloak and grab something, or act as a warp in, or whatever.

As for calling afk cloakers "cowards"... that simply does not make sense. Venturing out into real life and leaving the computer game is not some act of "cowardice". It's just something we (well, most of us) do. And as there is literally nothing they can do to anyone still in game there is no issue. They are not there. They can't hurt you. They're not "cowards". They're not anything. They're none-entities. The fact that you're so terrified of them is pathetic. Go back to hisec.
maciek9
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#74 - 2012-10-17 13:51:24 UTC
Well you should take a chill pill and read before you call people names. As i written before afk cloakers are not of a big issue for me. You would know that if you could read instaead of insta-raging. And in particular read again what afk cloakers are and what they are meant to achieve by staying for 3-4 weeks in one place. And the solution still stands imo, as technology without counter is just stupid.

Maybe lets see real world reconnaisance, that way maybe you understand what I'm getting at if thats hard for you to grasp. Is the real world reconnisance without risk of fail ? No. Is it sucessful way of gathering info ? Yes. That simple. Lets just keep it real.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#75 - 2012-10-17 15:42:49 UTC
maciek9 wrote:
Well you should take a chill pill and read before you call people names. As i written before afk cloakers are not of a big issue for me. You would know that if you could read instaead of insta-raging. And in particular read again what afk cloakers are and what they are meant to achieve by staying for 3-4 weeks in one place. And the solution still stands imo, as technology without counter is just stupid.

Maybe lets see real world reconnaisance, that way maybe you understand what I'm getting at if thats hard for you to grasp. Is the real world reconnisance without risk of fail ? No. Is it sucessful way of gathering info ? Yes. That simple. Lets just keep it real.


How many times now have you purposefully ignored the arguments against your silly ideas based on how they ruin legitimate activities of active players?

I'm not going to bother repeating them because you clearly can't refute any of them.

High sec space is that way ->
Mag's
Azn Empire
#76 - 2012-10-19 08:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
maciek9 wrote:
Well most solutions I saw would only force them to move few km every half hour (ie. the probing sugestion). If thats to much
of an activity in nullspace for them. Well no comment.

It's just silly for me that in game suposed to be all about technology you can use magic invisibility hat, that saves you
from pvp in a place made for pvp.

Why should cloaking change, when the reason for AFKing remains untouched?

If you had any idea of the topic at hand, you know AFKing was the counter..

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Captain Kanki
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-10-19 08:44:54 UTC
Remove afk cloaking? No. Theres been 0 good reasons to do it. Cloaking is part of this game and it is working atm.
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#78 - 2012-10-20 09:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
Heh this topic seems to be alive and well ^^

Remove Captain Kanki from forums: Yes. He lacks the skills to present any reasons for hes points of views or working solutions for the topic.

So anyhow... fuelbays ^^. They will not ruin anything and CCP needs to think about the balance NOT US. You can still afk-cloak, but not indefinetly and thus the problem is solved for everyone.

The one who want to play cloaky games can the one trying to find cloakers can do that also and many other things would be improved.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Arduemont
The State of War.
#79 - 2012-10-20 13:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Why is this thread still going on?

Here's how it is:

An afk cloaker, is afk. So he is not doing ANYTHING. So why does he bother you? Simple answer, because your scared that he WILL do something.

Now there are already very good counters to AFK cloakers, you can set up a standing fleet so you can get a quick warp in on anyone who is attacked by him, you can specifically bait and kill him, or better yet, you can move next door to do your ratting/mining whatever. If he follows you to next door, then he's not afk and thus all your stupid argument against the afk cloakers are invalid.

People need to use a little logic. I don't get how people can be so dense and unthinking. There is literally no reason to change afk cloaking.

Azrael Dinn wrote:
So anyhow... fuelbays ^^. They will not ruin anything and CCP needs to think about the balance NOT US. You can still afk-cloak, but not indefinetly and thus the problem is solved for everyone.


Are you kidding? You want anyone who cloaks to pay for fuel and be fine with that. Also, lets not forget the fact that if they run out of fuel for any reason the cloak is completely useless. Let me say it again, there is no good reason to change cloaking anyway.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#80 - 2012-10-20 16:09:34 UTC
The point is not that afk cloakers can kill people while afk but that you can afk 95% of your time and still be a very effective killer. I would certainly agree that cloaking is a fun and valid part of the game and that any fix should not break actively playing with cloaked ships.

But you shouldn't be able to log in just after downtime, press one button and interdict a system for 23 hours. It's disproportionate and it's actually less fun.

Suppose instead that cloaks burned a steadily increasing amount of cap. Neglible for the first 10 minutes, you need to be cap fit to sustain past 20 mins and unfeasible past 30 minutes. Followed by a 2 minute cloak cooldown period.

It would make hunting while cloaked still perfectly valid but it would also make hunting cloakers a fun part of the game. At the moment if we organise a fleet to try to deal with someone in our space it's quite frankly generally rather boring. We might get them and do from time to time but generally defensive efforts of an organised gang of people can be completely neutralised by the other player simply alt tabbing and playing a different game.

As a nullsec FC I want my fleet members to have more fun blowing people up and less time being blue-balled.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.