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[Proposal] Remove AFK cloaking

First post
Author
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#21 - 2012-09-13 11:03:38 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Praxis Astra wrote:
OK: If someone has something in this game that you don't have that you consider some kind of unfair advantage, the answer isn't to try to get it taken from them. The answer is to go for that thing yourself.

Big smile


I'm doing it all the time and still I think it's !"#¤%!"#¤% retarted that no one has a chance to get me while doing it.


Then you have a terrible understanding of game balance. AFK Cloakers are incapable of any kind of action what-so-ever, for other players to be able to affect them while they themselves are incapable of doing anything is utterly stupid. It's the most basic level game balance imaginable.

Not to mention the fact that all these stupid, stupid ideas about cap/fuel needs, probes to find cloakies, etc would cause even bigger imbalances when it comes to holding/capturing territories in null. It is essential for a dynamic, healthy environment that cloaking exist and allow you such protections (at the sacrifice of absolutely all your own offensive capabilities).

And last but not least, it would utterly destroy wormhole space.

Additionally, you didnt address the points we've raised about how your terrible ideas would ruin legitimate, active cloaking roles.

So to summarise: Stop crying. Man up or go back to hisec, you terrible nullbear.

I respect hisec bears more than you, at least they admit they are risk averse and choose a gameplay style that suits that, rather than crying to change ALL styles of gameplay to suit their carebear ways while masquerading as PVPers
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#22 - 2012-09-13 11:58:25 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Then you have a terrible understanding of game balance....

I respect hisec bears more than you, at least they admit they are risk averse and choose a gameplay style that suits that, rather than crying to change ALL styles of gameplay to suit their carebear ways while masquerading as PVPers


I don't realy care do you respect me or not and even if you don't no one cares :D

And to address something... I tossed the idea of fuelbays in. It's not an terrible idea and I don't need to think about the balance nor do you. CCP needs to, if they are willing to implement something like that into the game. And lets face it. CCP is also saying AFK playing is bad.

So I see AFK cloaking as a bad thing and thats my point of view and I presented one option to address it. If you see it as a good thing cause you want to jack off while playing. Well thats fine. But stop yelling stupid stupid stupid if you don't have anything else to say.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-09-17 04:31:33 UTC
Nullsec should not be risk free. One of the risks we deal with in nullsec is AFK cloakers. Here's an idea. Fit up an interceptor and learn to catch them on the way in. If they are using nullified T3's learn to use hictors with infinipoints.
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#24 - 2012-09-17 06:48:11 UTC
Tbh, nothing is wrong with afk cloakers. As stated in this thread, they cant hurt you when they afk.

[troll]
So, the thing that has to be done by you is to as followed;

1. Continue ratting
2. Minimize local chat
3. do not and keep an eye out on dscan
4. sent rage mail to the guy when he kills you
[/troll]

Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-09-17 18:29:40 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Just go back and read the old threads (all 30 or so of them in which this gets shot down).

There's way more than 30 threads about this topic. Unless you accidentally forgot the 'k' after the number.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#26 - 2012-09-19 13:14:01 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Then you have a terrible understanding of game balance....

I respect hisec bears more than you, at least they admit they are risk averse and choose a gameplay style that suits that, rather than crying to change ALL styles of gameplay to suit their carebear ways while masquerading as PVPers


I don't realy care do you respect me or not and even if you don't no one cares :D

And to address something... I tossed the idea of fuelbays in. It's not an terrible idea and I don't need to think about the balance nor do you. CCP needs to, if they are willing to implement something like that into the game. And lets face it. CCP is also saying AFK playing is bad.

So I see AFK cloaking as a bad thing and thats my point of view and I presented one option to address it. If you see it as a good thing cause you want to jack off while playing. Well thats fine. But stop yelling stupid stupid stupid if you don't have anything else to say.


Wrong. Fuel (or cap) usage for covert ops ships is an utterly atrocious idea. This is a simple fact.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-09-19 15:09:19 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Topic says it all.

Why:

1. You are not playing the game but yet you still are

2. Your getting an indirect benefits in many ways and your still not playing the game

I don't realy care how this is dealt with. My solution would be a heavy water fuel bay to the claoks but thats my idea.


Now lets hear the whines next.


Why post a proposal here, when it regularly gets destroyed in discussion 25 times a month?

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#28 - 2012-09-19 15:36:55 UTC
betoli wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Topic says it all.

Why:

1. You are not playing the game but yet you still are

2. Your getting an indirect benefits in many ways and your still not playing the game

I don't realy care how this is dealt with. My solution would be a heavy water fuel bay to the claoks but thats my idea.


Now lets hear the whines next.


Why post a proposal here, when it regularly gets destroyed in discussion 25 times a month?



I think he should show us on the doll where the AFK player touched him

oh wait he cant because the player was afk.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#29 - 2012-09-19 15:44:55 UTC
One day, I'm going to go back and catalog how many times this topic has been brought up and summarily shot down like a wounded buffalo. That will also be the day I finally lose the last shred of sanity I have.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Alexej
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-09-20 14:10:34 UTC
Once upon a time EVE was a fine place for PVP. Then they introduced jump bridges, warp to 0km, sanctums and interdiction nullifiers. If you living in 0.0, you already know how easy to grind ISK unharmed with absolutely zero risk.

For the rest of the people:

Step 1: Get into a large alliance.
Step 2: Get a drake.
Step 3: Go to a system where you have a lot of sanctums and an online POS.
Step 4: Put the local chat in a big window in the middle of your screen.
Step 5: If local is clear start to rat in a nice fluffy sanctum.
Step 6: If you see anything other than blue in the local window press: warp to POS then GOTO Step 5.

Even if you are a totally stupid idiot you can still avoid being caught. The only way to counter this level of carebearness is semi-AFK cloaking. Logon traps, fast jumps in, directional scans are way too slow methods to catch anyone else than true retards. And you want the only working solution left out of this game. Dear Azrael Dinn, you are an *******.
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#31 - 2012-09-22 11:06:28 UTC
Alexej wrote:
Once upon a time EVE was a fine place for PVP. Then they introduced jump bridges, warp to 0km, sanctums and interdiction nullifiers. If you living in 0.0, you already know how easy to grind ISK unharmed with absolutely zero risk.

For the rest of the people:

Step 1: Get into a large alliance.
Step 2: Get a drake.
Step 3: Go to a system where you have a lot of sanctums and an online POS.
Step 4: Put the local chat in a big window in the middle of your screen.
Step 5: If local is clear start to rat in a nice fluffy sanctum.
Step 6: If you see anything other than blue in the local window press: warp to POS then GOTO Step 5.

Even if you are a totally stupid idiot you can still avoid being caught. The only way to counter this level of carebearness is semi-AFK cloaking. Logon traps, fast jumps in, directional scans are way too slow methods to catch anyone else than true retards. And you want the only working solution left out of this game. Dear Azrael Dinn, you are an *******.


Dear Alexej, please go and learn how to pvp.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#32 - 2012-09-22 13:39:50 UTC
Only renters and cva cry about afk cloakers
Elderel
Front Line Logistics
#33 - 2012-09-22 18:09:29 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Can you come up with a way to do this (removing afk cloaking) that does not hurt active cloakers?


So far no one has.


Not a blanket removal like what's so often requested but yes, I have found a way to counter afk cloaks without screwing active cloakers. The currently useless system scanner array pos module could very easily be tweaked to provide an active, and limited, means to counter afk cloaking in a system. Couple it with an ihub upgrade requirement and you've made it something of an advantage to holding sov over simply slumming in npc space and harassing your neighbors.

Details on the module change would be similar to the following:
When activated this module sends out a system wide burst of harmonic radiance (or whatever you want to call it) that disrupts ALL cloaking in system for 5 minutes. This effect is so energy intensive that it can only be used ever (pick balancing number) hours and disrupts any other module of this kind in the system for the same duration.



My personal thought is that if you can't scan down an afk ship in 5 minutes, you deserve to have afk cloaks in your systems. I'm also of the opinion that any half competent pilot can avoid scan probes for a few minutes to stay alive thru the disruption effect. If you're too stupid to get yourself a collection of safes so you don't have to bounce off celestials at grid ranges, you deserve to die because you fail as a covops pilot. Now, whether you consider afk cloaking to be a problem or not is irrelevant - the simple fact is covops cloaks are too good and have no balancing factors of any kind beyond the limited number of ships they can be fitted to.
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#34 - 2012-09-23 10:44:26 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Can you come up with a way to do this (removing afk cloaking) that does not hurt active cloakers?


So far no one has.


There has been alot of solutions and topics how they would be countered.

Main problem seems to be that most of the solutions would kill cloaking completely. I would personaly want to see fuel bays for the specialized ships and just fuel in cargo bay for others. And it would be CCPs problem how to balance it so that it would be fair to the ones using cloaks and it would also kill afk cloaking. Mayby higher meta level mods would consume less fuel so you could cloack up for longer period of times or something.

I don't see how this would ruin cloaking completely. It would just mean that if your stupid enough to leave your ship to be cloaked for long period of times without you being around someone would eventualy find you and kill you if they wanted to. You could still do all the psychological warfare you want by being in the system or traps and so on but you would most importantly be active and not passive ratting in empire waiting there and not even paying attention.

And stop posting no no no no I can't play without afk cloaking and start saying something constructive.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Adeleda Adoudel
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#35 - 2012-09-23 14:09:43 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:



2. Your getting an indirect benefits in many ways and your still not playing the game



What indirect benefit are you getting? If it's stopping other people from ratting then its not benefitting you, its just harrassing them.

Also how do you know if they are AFK or not? You complain saying they're afk cloaking, but if they are they're doing no harm are they? They're not even there.
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#36 - 2012-09-23 14:22:53 UTC
Adeleda Adoudel wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:



2. Your getting an indirect benefits in many ways and your still not playing the game



What indirect benefit are you getting? If it's stopping other people from ratting then its not benefitting you, its just harrassing them.

Also how do you know if they are AFK or not? You complain saying they're afk cloaking, but if they are they're doing no harm are they? They're not even there.


I'll just counter this by saying. Lets add the fuelbays and scans into the game. Is there a problem then?
And if you don't get the indirect benefits of psychological warfare, well thats your problem then.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#37 - 2012-09-24 03:09:01 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Can you come up with a way to do this (removing afk cloaking) that does not hurt active cloakers?


So far no one has.


There has been alot of solutions and topics how they would be countered.

Main problem seems to be that most of the solutions would kill cloaking completely. I would personaly want to see fuel bays for the specialized ships and just fuel in cargo bay for others. And it would be CCPs problem how to balance it so that it would be fair to the ones using cloaks and it would also kill afk cloaking. Mayby higher meta level mods would consume less fuel so you could cloack up for longer period of times or something.

I don't see how this would ruin cloaking completely. It would just mean that if your stupid enough to leave your ship to be cloaked for long period of times without you being around someone would eventualy find you and kill you if they wanted to. You could still do all the psychological warfare you want by being in the system or traps and so on but you would most importantly be active and not passive ratting in empire waiting there and not even paying attention.

And stop posting no no no no I can't play without afk cloaking and start saying something constructive.

I've gone on several WH and null roams where I have done more than 24 hours worth of cloaking (most of my roams last a week or so, depending on how much I am able to play) without being anywhere near someplace where I could dock up.

Any sort of fuel or cap use or whatever that would have any effect on an afk cloaker would make my personal activity very very difficult. I'm sure there are many other folks who do similar things that require long cloak times away from any source of refueling.


And to the person with the pulse thing: that kills bombers and gate/POS scouts. Adds certain death to an already tedious job.
And if it had a significant (say 6 hours) cooldown, it woudl be pretty useless against the afk cloakers.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#38 - 2012-09-24 09:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Adeleda Adoudel wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:



2. Your getting an indirect benefits in many ways and your still not playing the game



What indirect benefit are you getting? If it's stopping other people from ratting then its not benefitting you, its just harrassing them.

Also how do you know if they are AFK or not? You complain saying they're afk cloaking, but if they are they're doing no harm are they? They're not even there.


I'll just counter this by saying. Lets add the fuelbays and scans into the game. Is there a problem then?
And if you don't get the indirect benefits of psychological warfare, well thats your problem then.



fuelbays kill the active cloaker who spends time away from any refueling base. For example behind enemy lines work, or deep wormhole resident hunting.

System wide scans. However they work (even if you dont use them to then scan down a cloaker), simply knowing a cloaker is present in this way still breaks wormholes.


Edit: Posted the following before and I am sure i will post it again:

Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.

- Now cloaks are really cloaked.

- Now AFK Cloaking cannot cause any fear.

- Now active cloakers have to work for more intel.

- Now system residents have to pay a little more attention to whats going on around them.

- Now (if done correctly) BOTs can be caught.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#39 - 2012-09-25 04:56:33 UTC
No.

Working as intended.

HTFU.

There is a counter to cloakers. It's called a standing fleet.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#40 - 2012-09-25 04:57:00 UTC
If all else fails, the biomass queue is over Arrow

Don't forget to give me your stuff.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||