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Crime & Punishment

 
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Goons freighter killing spree in Uedama
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The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-10-07 16:29:08 UTC
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14815222

This guy was carrying fairly modest cargo. Got blown up anyways. Granted, he is in ewok, but still.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#42 - 2012-10-07 17:43:45 UTC
The Chronophage wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14815222

This guy was carrying fairly modest cargo. Got blown up anyways. Granted, he is in ewok, but still.


you answered your own riddle, that's not fun

no more games... it's real this time!!!
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#43 - 2012-10-07 18:06:01 UTC
Its worth noting that its activities like this that help to keep the eve economy functioning as it should, I wouldn't go so far as saying its a public service but it certainly needs to happen.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-10-08 01:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Samahiel Sotken
BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote:
Its worth noting that its activities like this that help to keep the eve economy functioning as it should, I wouldn't go so far as saying its a public service but it certainly needs to happen.


It most definetly is a public service. The last numbers I remember the EVE economy was suffering from 24 trillion excess isk being generated per month http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms&feature=player_detailpage#t=1557s

The actions of goonswarm has been responsible for the interdiction of somewhere around 1,450 billion isk since the start of operations. I believe with our current efforts we can sustain something like 800 billion isk interdiction per month. Of that gross number about 40% is recovered and re-enters the market place. Leaving a net isk sink of somewhere around 480 billion isk per month.

As an alliance we've successfully proven that player driven actions could theoretically stabilize the economy and curb the rampant inflation we're experiencing today. If four more alliances were to fund and maintain operations such as ours we could generate and sustain a 10% reduction in inflation. This would be trivially easy as the operation is not only self sustaining but in fact very lucrative.

I believe the math clearly demonstrates our actions are not only laudable, but in point of fact vital to the future prosperity of New Eden.
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#45 - 2012-10-08 02:15:21 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote:
Its worth noting that its activities like this that help to keep the eve economy functioning as it should, I wouldn't go so far as saying its a public service but it certainly needs to happen.


It most definetly is a public service. The last numbers I remember the EVE economy was suffering from 24 trillion excess isk being generated per month http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms&feature=player_detailpage#t=1557s

The actions of goonswarm has been responsible for the interdiction of somewhere around 1,450 billion isk since the start of operations. I believe with our current efforts we can sustain something like 800 billion isk interdiction per month. Of that gross number about 40% is recovered and re-enters the market place. Leaving a net isk sink of somewhere around 480 billion isk per month.

As an alliance we've successfully proven that player driven actions could theoretically stabilize the economy and curb the rampant inflation we're experiencing today. If four more alliances were to fund and maintain operations such as ours we could generate and sustain a 10% reduction in inflation. This would be trivially easy as the operation is not only self sustaining but in fact very lucrative.

I believe the math clearly demonstrates our actions are not only laudable, but in point of fact vital to the future prosperity of New Eden.
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-10-08 02:24:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Samahiel Sotken
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.
Seatox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-10-08 02:43:33 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.


The destruction of a freighter, on it's own, injects ISK through the insurance payout. It's fortunate that people move billions of ISK+LP worth of implants around in a freighter - having a few hundred +5 attribute implants burning up is quite the ISK sink, as well as a sink for LP.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-10-08 02:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Samahiel Sotken
The destruction of the pirate ships themselves are not insured though. We must also remember that all production is done at an opportunity cost of isk generation. Every mineral mined, and hull produced, is done instead of some isk generating activity with the idea that it has equivalent value for which it may be exchanged. With the associated fees, taxes, and inefficiencies at every juncture.
flakeys
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-10-08 06:53:30 UTC
Seatox wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.


The destruction of a freighter, on it's own, injects ISK through the insurance payout. It's fortunate that people move billions of ISK+LP worth of implants around in a freighter - having a few hundred +5 attribute implants burning up is quite the ISK sink, as well as a sink for LP.



Not that many got their freighter insured , that one i can guarantee you Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Doddy
Excidium.
#50 - 2012-10-08 08:18:37 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
VegasMirage wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The Chronophage wrote:
Michael Heineken wrote:
I'm pretty new here so please excuse the nub question. Is there no other route that these pilots could take? Seems a bit stupid to keep going into a system where you have a 100% chance of a bunch of Goons waiting for you. Also, is the issue that they're autopiloting or is the align time so slow? (never flown a freighter before)


Nope, based on autopilot, you cannot go from jita to amarr or dodixie in high sec without going through niarja or uedama. Those two choke-points control all trade into caldari high sec. You lock down these two systems, you basically have cut off caldari high sec from all other faction high sec. Try it.

It's a smarter version of the jita interdiction, and a lot more profitable.


People could deal with the interdiction by passing in convoy at randomly choosen time. If 10 freighter show up at the same place, it require about 60 gankers to be there at the right time. You dvide the loss among the fellow convoy member and more stuff ends up passing than if people all go one after the other. Too bad asking most high seccers to work together insetad of all doing thier own little stuff won't ever work...


I approve of this amazing idea, providing more targets in 1 location is the best course of action. Proceed further.


That would mean there are many more gankers available at the same time than I though. Interesting.


Believe it or not the prospect of 60 freighter kills will attract more goons.
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-10-08 19:30:52 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.


By that logic, you should pop wrecks rather than sell the loot that drops. Also by that logic, criminals and arsonists are vital to a healthy economy IRL, but that's a separate topic.
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#52 - 2012-10-08 20:00:33 UTC
The Chronophage wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.


By that logic, you should pop wrecks rather than sell the loot that drops. Also by that logic, criminals and arsonists are vital to a healthy economy IRL, but that's a separate topic.


1. No, they just need to gank sufficient numbers of freighters that sufficient wealth is destroyed.

2. It is not a RL economy.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#53 - 2012-10-08 21:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: VegasMirage
BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote:
The Chronophage wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.


By that logic, you should pop wrecks rather than sell the loot that drops. Also by that logic, criminals and arsonists are vital to a healthy economy IRL, but that's a separate topic.


1. Stuff

2. It is not a RL economy.


I'm assuming you don't mean real in terms of "goods and services less inflation/financial markets", but more that its a virtual economy thus not important.

Anytime you exchange goods and services for your time you have an economy. Even a barter economy based on tulips led to one of the most notable and devastating financial crashes in recorded history (we all know the story by now).

Goons are destroying goods that were exchanged for somebody's service (time). You can argue that isk is not a real currency, but time is unarguably a valuable commodity (currency) and all the isk in the game represents the collective members time. Goons estimate they own 10% of your time. You now not only work for CCP, but also for Goons 10% of the time.

Look at it this way, we're ALL employees of CCP. They pay us in isk for doing "things". Goons destroy your isk, you go back to work the next day. Nothing changes.

The "real" question is can Goons (being Neo in TheMatrix) destroy your controllers or at least open your eyes enough for you to realize that all along what you've been exchanging your time for is "not real".

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-10-08 22:29:37 UTC
VegasMirage wrote:

Goons are destroying goods that were exchanged for somebody's service (time). You can argue that isk is not a real currency, but time is unarguably a valuable commodity (currency) and all the isk in the game represents the collective members time. Goons estimate they own 10% of your time. You now not only work for CCP, but also for Goons 10% of the time.

Look at it this way, we're ALL employees of CCP. They pay us in isk for doing "things". Goons destroy your isk, you go back to work the next day. Nothing changes.

The "real" question is can Goons (being Neo in TheMatrix) destroy your controllers or at least open your eyes enough for you to realize that all along what you've been exchanging your time for is "not real".


Actually it's closer to 2%. And it's merely a market correction for the hyper-inflation caused by the government (CCP) recklessly printing currency. It's sort of as if we were going around mugging people in 1923 Hungary for Pengo notes, burning half, and pocketing the rest.
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#55 - 2012-10-08 22:40:58 UTC
VegasMirage wrote:
BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote:
The Chronophage wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
How exactly does ganking remove ISK from the economy? What?

Excellent question!

First we must make a distinction that the material that go into producing the goods themselves are not isk. There is an inflation/deflation of mineral supplies, but that's not what we're really talking about here. The isk lost in new eden is isk that was spent through isk sinks, such as purchases from NPCs, the purchase of goods that are non insurable, fees and taxes associated with such, or the inefficient of opportunity costs. This is where goods derive their value from. By destroying goods we necessity the reinvestment of isk into isk sinks in order to replace them. Thus increasing their overall value and removing liquid capital from the money supply.

If it helps you can think of us as a Keynesian style initiative. By increasing market inefficiencies we stimulate production and innovation to meet demand, thus shifting the economy out of a period of stagflation.


By that logic, you should pop wrecks rather than sell the loot that drops. Also by that logic, criminals and arsonists are vital to a healthy economy IRL, but that's a separate topic.


1. Stuff

2. It is not a RL economy.


I'm assuming you don't mean real in terms of "goods and services less inflation/financial markets", but more that its a virtual economy thus not important.

Anytime you exchange goods and services for your time you have an economy. Even a barter economy based on tulips led to one of the most notable and devastating financial crashes in recorded history (we all know the story by now).

Goons are destroying goods that were exchanged for somebody's service (time). You can argue that isk is not a real currency, but time is unarguably a valuable commodity (currency) and all the isk in the game represents the collective members time. Goons estimate they own 10% of your time. You now not only work for CCP, but also for Goons 10% of the time.

Look at it this way, we're ALL employees of CCP. They pay us in isk for doing "things". Goons destroy your isk, you go back to work the next day. Nothing changes.

The "real" question is can Goons (being Neo in TheMatrix) destroy your controllers or at least open your eyes enough for you to realize that all along what you've been exchanging your time for is "not real".


I just meant there is no risk of physical injury or getting physically burnt.
Powers Sa
#56 - 2012-10-08 22:55:50 UTC
Doddy wrote:


Believe it or not the prospect of 60 freighter kills will attract more goons.

At least our allies understand us.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Powers Sa
#57 - 2012-10-08 23:03:08 UTC
The Chronophage wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14815222

This guy was carrying fairly modest cargo. Got blown up anyways. Granted, he is in ewok, but still.

Modest cargo or not, he is red. We are taking a tighter stance on reds moving forward as evidenced by these kills:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14821186
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14795741
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14792239
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14812635
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14781503

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#58 - 2012-10-08 23:12:32 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
The Chronophage wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14815222

This guy was carrying fairly modest cargo. Got blown up anyways. Granted, he is in ewok, but still.

Modest cargo or not, he is red. We are taking a tighter stance on reds moving forward as evidenced by these kills:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14821186
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14795741
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14792239
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14812635
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14781503


but in all honesty, ganking is simply boring

isk is boring

tears are only good for so long from the same person/corp/alliance

ganking burns good PvP'ers out imo, it's only a matter of time.

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Powers Sa
#59 - 2012-10-09 00:51:43 UTC
VegasMirage wrote:

but in all honesty, ganking is simply boring

isk is boring

tears are only good for so long from the same person/corp/alliance

ganking burns good PvP'ers out imo, it's only a matter of time.



I have multiple characters. One in 0.0 for cloaky camps and speedroams. One for mainfleet. One for freighter ganking. I have characters on each of these accounts that support 2 of the other activities from the main character on the account. We have enough people in miniluv that we can cycle through burnout on ganks/scanning/etc. You'll notice the Bat country crew cycles off when their sec status gets too low, goes back, rats it up. These aren't all our main characters. We've built the group to sustain burn out and made it very friendly for new guys to join up and have fun.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#60 - 2012-10-09 18:47:28 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
VegasMirage wrote:

but in all honesty, ganking is simply boring

isk is boring

tears are only good for so long from the same person/corp/alliance

ganking burns good PvP'ers out imo, it's only a matter of time.



I have multiple characters. One in 0.0 for cloaky camps and speedroams. One for mainfleet. One for freighter ganking. I have characters on each of these accounts that support 2 of the other activities from the main character on the account. We have enough people in miniluv that we can cycle through burnout on ganks/scanning/etc. You'll notice the Bat country crew cycles off when their sec status gets too low, goes back, rats it up. These aren't all our main characters. We've built the group to sustain burn out and made it very friendly for new guys to join up and have fun.


smart move and nice that you realize its an activity on the boring scale that ranks up there with structure shoots

I've burnt out many crew with suicide contracts and many more with wormhole eviction contracts.

But you have inspired me, therefore I shall join the dregs and assist in making hi sec unbearable for all.

See you on grid,,, shortly.

no more games... it's real this time!!!