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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#961 - 2012-09-05 20:16:15 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tippia's strawman ( superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition ) was her position that HI SEC representatives are not needed in a previous argument because CCP is the de facto HI SEC representative which IS ALL WE APPEAR TO HAVE NOW. Having CCP as the only one holding back the predominately NULL CSM's suggestions just strikes me as elitist space rich looking after the poor indigant shrinking middle class HI SEC out of thealtruistic goodness of thier hearts. I don'tparticularly believe in altruism in Eve.

I've heard a few names thrown around stating that there are HI SEC representative on the council yet in the minutes I did not hear(read) those voices speak up. Do they consider themselvesHI SEC representatives? Right now it appears that the HI SEC representative is occupying Clint Eastwoods empty chair.

Thank you for further proving that you have no idea what you're talking about or what a strawman is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#962 - 2012-09-05 20:34:12 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:


The CSM isn't just there to propose fixes to broken stuff. They are also to help keep not broken stuff from being broken.


Oh and I thought CSM was to keep the TECH bottle neck firmly entrenched as long as possible while saying you want TECH to be nerfed. Therefore its to keep the broken parts in place as long as possible while it helps your true constituants Pirate

Dude, for someone that cares so much, it would behoove you to learn a little more...

Goonswarm has been pretty dam loud (even *BEFORE* it got implemented) about removing the bottleneck moongoos....

/facepalm


Interesting some Goonswarm members I recall once were also pretty damn loud in suggesting I join them for a small deposit of 500 million sound legit?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#963 - 2012-09-05 20:38:06 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Interesting some Goonswarm members I recall once were also pretty damn loud in suggesting I join them for a small deposit of 500 million sound legit?

Seriously, there were umpteen million threads about the *new* bottleneck. Hell, even *I* knew about it. You are now officially drinking too much kool-aid of your own distillation....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#964 - 2012-09-05 20:42:30 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Interesting some Goonswarm members I recall once were also pretty damn loud in suggesting I join them for a small deposit of 500 million sound legit?

Maybe because scamming you would have been hilarious, not because they actually needed the money (they don't).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#965 - 2012-09-05 20:44:40 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Interesting some Goonswarm members I recall once were also pretty damn loud in suggesting I join them for a small deposit of 500 million sound legit?
Interesting how recorded facts mean you have to fall back on paper-thin evasions when they don't go your way.

Everyone except maybe NC were screaming for a solution since before it went it, CSM included… and hell, I think even the NC guys quietly admitted it was broken on arrival.
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#966 - 2012-09-05 22:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryoken McKeon
Welp, I guess if I managed to draw out a wall of text I'll waste my own time answering.

Quote:

I'm not whining, I was having a discussion. Take your aggressive bullshit somewhere else. Highsec players work hard for what they have. Just because some may complain that their little corner of the galaxy might get nerfed doesn't automatically mean some elitist ******** like you gets to **** all over them. See how quickly a conversation can escalate without using a little it a decency in your communication?


First off brah, I was not directing my post specifically at you (in fact it was almost entirely at the OP). High sec players DON'T work for what they have :) This is part of what I mean. In high sec, you can just go do a level 4 or mine some roids and make money without having to consider anything else. In no other area of space is making money so effortless. Sure, I can sometimes make up to a billion a day doing sleepers in a c6 wormhole, but in order to do that the wormhole has to be colonized first (otherwise you can't bring in enough caps to cycle all the escalations, which is sadface), you have to know what you're doing (or you'll die. true you can die in high sec, you just have to be a frothing ****** to do so), and then cashing out the loot requires logistics unheard of in high sec. Additionally, teamwork is necessary for this. You need carriers, dreads, huginns/rapiers, and tengus in order to do the sites efficiently and safely. You also need cloakies monitoring the other wormholes to make sure the other guys don't drop in and blow up 20 bil worth of **** in 5 minutes, you also need to keep up with how many an---you get where I'm going with this. Nullsec is even more difficult to set up and maintain. So lets get that misconception out of here: high sec is brainless, effortless money.


Quote:

False. There are plenty of very old high sec players who prefer to stay within the Empire than others. Go into local in high and check a few character histories. Just because someone is from 2007 or 2008 does not mean they're suddenly unqualified to speak about their game or that they aren't old enough. Their opinions and experience over the years are just as valid. Now 2011 or 2012, even some 2009 players well...different story.


There are. I said 'tend.' Unfortunately those players also tend to have spent the vast majority of their EVE experience in high sec, don't pay attention to the meta game, and are basically as clueless as the rest. Otherwise they wouldn't be in high sec.

Unfortunately, the actually experienced, skilled players who live in high sec tend to be griefers.

Quote:

Or they could simply, you know...have lives and interest outside of Eve. There's nothing wrong with casual gamers being worried about their experience being shat on by someone they see as unruly. And they don't assume anything about inexperience. They simply see someone trying to infringe on their game (though really it isn't always the case at all like you say below) when they are only minding their own business.


This is fine! I don't play EVE for more than two hours a day (usually an hour or less) but I manage to stay up with how to play. The problem comes when these ignorant people use their communications skills and suggest en masse terrible ideas that are occasionally implemented. If they would just shut up, I wouldn't be typing this. I am because these people have the ability to ruin my gaming experience and their own at the same time. I frankly consider it a godsend that they haven't managed to elect a CSM delegate.


Quote:
I agree. The nul blocks know a lot, a whole lot. And they know, like I said, that nul and high have a relationship that is needed. One can't live without the other. Plain and simple. As much as I troll about high sec buffs and banning pvp, high, low, and nul all relate to each other. It's how the economy is propped, people keep playing, and **** keeps happening.

As for them not organizing to vote, well I can't really argue there. If a candidate does come by for highsec players, he'll need one hell of a strategy.


And you should listen to them without argument. Daddy-nullsec knows best. Also, CSM 6 was not 100% nullsec, WH (that 5%, and there are no major powerblocs in WHs to muster votes as in Nullsec) managed to elect Two-step and the 67% high sec did not manage even one. That tells you everything you need to know about the population of high sec.
Frying Doom
#967 - 2012-09-06 10:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tippia wrote:
…and the wardec revamp was a much needed upgrade to highsec with one main flaw: the free infiniwar, which got fixed very quickly thanks to CSM7. It was pretty good work overall, much like your strawman.

Oh I missed this in all of Tippias ramblings

So to respond to your statement, if it was good work, why are they still fixing it?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#968 - 2012-09-06 11:27:08 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So to respond to your statement, if it was good work, why are they still fixing it?

Because unlike what you're going to make this into, the remaining issues with wardecs are clear and distinct problems, whereas getting people to vote is not fixed by annoying people by requiring they press abstain/vote upon login, it requires them to actually care. And that is not a clear and distinct problem, in fact it's a pretty damn vague problem.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Frying Doom
#969 - 2012-09-06 11:42:11 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So to respond to your statement, if it was good work, why are they still fixing it?

Because unlike what you're going to make this into, the remaining issues with wardecs are clear and distinct problems, whereas getting people to vote is not fixed by annoying people by requiring they press abstain/vote upon login, it requires them to actually care. And that is not a clear and distinct problem, in fact it's a pretty damn vague problem.

Well over the course of this thread we have heard reasons from some people why they did not vote, while this is a very small minority of the number of people who do not vote it was helpful. As most of them were just misunderstanding the role of the CSM.

And before anyone asks me to point them out, you have eyes go look yourself.

Oh and the war dec system is from the pits in the rubbish dump, where they keep the most toxic stuff.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#970 - 2012-09-06 11:48:34 UTC
hello threadnaught, we meet again!!!!!!!!!!!!1

high sec just needs some organization and we will have representation too but it will never happen as I've already stated earlier.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.

Frying Doom
#971 - 2012-09-06 11:59:45 UTC
Apparently enough replies have been axed to drop us back a full page

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#972 - 2012-09-06 12:04:45 UTC
Riiight. I've had to clean this thread, again. I will politely remind all of you once more that off topic posting, troll posts, flaming and personal attacks have no place in a decent discussion. I respectfully suggest that if you cannot hold a conversation without resorting to any of the above, that you do not post here at all.

A decent discussion can be of great benefit to all involved, and when it comes to things such as the CSM, it can end up benefiting the entire population of EVE. However, none of those benefits will see the light of day if good discussions are tainted by childish insults that result in the threads getting locked.

So, in future please post sensibly and have a little respect for each other. No one expects you all to agree or to get along, it wouldn't be EVE if you did, but lets keep it decent shall we - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#973 - 2012-09-06 12:07:44 UTC
It would be nice if there were any way, any way at all, to get even a modicum of a hint whenever someone's posts were edited or removed.

I mean, I could of course keep an anal record of each and every post I've ever made, and routinely go through all my posts just to see if there's any of my posts which have been edited or removed, and maybe take a hint from that. ...but that would be a stupid usage of my time.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#974 - 2012-09-06 12:17:39 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
It would be nice if there were any way, any way at all, to get even a modicum of a hint whenever someone's posts were edited or removed.

I mean, I could of course keep an anal record of each and every post I've ever made, and routinely go through all my posts just to see if there's any of my posts which have been edited or removed, and maybe take a hint from that. ...but that would be a stupid usage of my time.



I recognise your frustration and if you have any issues with the way moderation is carried out, please feel free to file a petition to the community team. You could also post your proposal for adjustments to the way the system works in this thread, as long as it is done in a polite and constructive fashion.

I hope that is of some use to you. Now lets see if we can keep this discussion healthy - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Signal11th
#975 - 2012-09-06 12:18:36 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Riiight. I've had to clean this thread, again. I will politely remind all of you once more that off topic posting, troll posts, flaming and personal attacks have no place in a decent discussion. I respectfully suggest that if you cannot hold a conversation without resorting to any of the above, that you do not post here at all.

A decent discussion can be of great benefit to all involved, and when it comes to things such as the CSM, it can end up benefiting the entire population of EVE. However, none of those benefits will see the light of day if good discussions are tainted by childish insults that result in the threads getting locked.

So, in future please post sensibly and have a little respect for each other. No one expects you all to agree or to get along, it wouldn't be EVE if you did, but lets keep it decent shall we - ISD Type40.




All of which makes the EVE O forums the thing we love the most, so as you have obviously spent alot of time looking at this thread what are your thoughts on this discussion???

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#976 - 2012-09-06 12:23:17 UTC
Ryoken McKeon wrote:
There are. I said 'tend.' Unfortunately those players also tend to have spent the vast majority of their EVE experience in high sec, don't pay attention to the meta game, and are basically as clueless as the rest. Otherwise they wouldn't be in high sec.

Unfortunately, the actually experienced, skilled players who live in high sec tend to be griefers.

Highsec, a bright shining future in EVE Online.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#977 - 2012-09-06 12:26:35 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
I recognise your frustration and if you have any issues with the way moderation is carried out, please feel free to file a petition to the community team. You could also post your proposal for adjustments to the way the system works in this thread, as long as it is done in a polite and constructive fashion.

I hope that is of some use to you. Now lets see if we can keep this discussion healthy - ISD Type40.

You mean like I did in this post? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1610338#post1610338

I have. I still have absolutely no clue which of my posts or even anyone else's posts (in this thread or any other thread) has been deleted or edited, since there is absolutely no notification mechanism in place for this anywhere (except apparently the usage of ---snip---, which seems to have dropped off the face of the planet).

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#978 - 2012-09-06 12:46:24 UTC
Anslo wrote:

False. There are plenty of very old high sec players who prefer to stay within the Empire than others. Go into local in high and check a few character histories. Just because someone is from 2007 or 2008 does not mean they're suddenly unqualified to speak about their game or that they aren't old enough. Their opinions and experience over the years are just as valid. Now 2011 or 2012, even some 2009 players well...different story.


So why don't they vote? Why don't they put forward a candidate?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#979 - 2012-09-06 12:50:36 UTC
I'm a "very old high sec player" who "prefer to stay within the Empire". It's called "isk-making alts", or even "manufacturing alts". I make **** in hisec, then ship it out to nullsec.

Shockingly, I did vote the last 2 votes, and it wasn't a "hisec candidate", since they generally were either nuts or wanted to buff hisec even more (which is also nuts).

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#980 - 2012-09-06 13:07:24 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Riiight. I've had to clean this thread, again. I will politely remind all of you once more that off topic posting, troll posts, flaming and personal attacks have no place in a decent discussion. I respectfully suggest that if you cannot hold a conversation without resorting to any of the above, that you do not post here at all.

A decent discussion can be of great benefit to all involved, and when it comes to things such as the CSM, it can end up benefiting the entire population of EVE. However, none of those benefits will see the light of day if good discussions are tainted by childish insults that result in the threads getting locked.

So, in future please post sensibly and have a little respect for each other. No one expects you all to agree or to get along, it wouldn't be EVE if you did, but lets keep it decent shall we - ISD Type40.




All of which makes the EVE O forums the thing we love the most, so as you have obviously spent alot of time looking at this thread what are your thoughts on this discussion???




Having been a part of the EVE community for almost 8 years, I do indeed have my own views on such matters, however I think it best to keep such things separate from my role in the ISD. I will add though that my role in the ISD has taught me valuable lessons in taking a wider view on certain matters, as I have to remain impartial in order to function effectively in my role as a CCL moderator.

Still working on getting my sense of humour across though.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]