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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

First post First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#981 - 2012-09-06 13:38:52 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…aaaaaand right there is why I'm saying that seclevel categorisation is wrong-headed. A highsec rep cannot be a carebear rep because then he no longer represents highsec. A highsec rep needs to be able to represent me, who is apparently somewhat famous in my stance towards carebears. Again, it's the issues that require representation, not the sec levels. My highsec issues are represented splendidly by nullsec reps because they have that larger perspective and, persistent but largely unfounded assertions to the contrary, they do have a good insight into highsec.


Alright, I'll own up to this one. HIGHSEC rep. I use the two interchangeably when I really shouldn't. Sorry.

And I agree, like I said before, they have good insight. But the thing is they don't LIVE there. Sure they stop by now and then for isk and trades and lulz, but they don't actually live there regularly. The nulsec people understand the relationship between nul and high and how they both need each other, but what about the players that don't care or deal with nul? Who enjoy the storyline of the game? The Plexes? The one's who'd LIKE to have harder missions or methods to fight gankers on better terms than 8 v 1, some kind of even footing or even method to effectively hire mercs or REALLY collect on bounties? What about them?


If they don't vote, they don't exist as far as "CSM" issues are concerned.

Dealing with highsec types is a lot like dealing with an woman. There were problems, SHE has problems with the problems, SHE never mentions the problems to the man (he was "just supposed to know") and was mad at him for it, despite the fact that she never said anything.

People who have a vote but don't exercise it are the ONLY ones t blame is an issue they care about doesn't get taken care of.

The people in this thread whining about it could have been spending this time rallying high sec people to vote in the next election (ie adapting to the situation in order to overcome it), but true to form they come here griping about the unfairness of it so CCP itself will change it for them. It's so typical of the carebear mind-set it's scary.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#982 - 2012-09-06 14:13:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

The people in this thread whining about it could have been spending this time rallying high sec people to vote in the next election (ie adapting to the situation in order to overcome it), but true to form they come here griping about the unfairness of it so CCP itself will change it for them.


/thread

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#983 - 2012-09-06 14:22:47 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Anslo wrote:

False. There are plenty of very old high sec players who prefer to stay within the Empire than others. Go into local in high and check a few character histories. Just because someone is from 2007 or 2008 does not mean they're suddenly unqualified to speak about their game or that they aren't old enough. Their opinions and experience over the years are just as valid. Now 2011 or 2012, even some 2009 players well...different story.


So why don't they vote? Why don't they put forward a candidate?

Well lack of understanding of the role of the CSM, lack of being part of a larger community, lack of intelligence or an overabundance of apathy.

Take Goonswarm, a lot of your members vote but it did not happen by accident. You had a campaign of education for want of a better word within your alliance as to why you should vote and who you should vote for. Quite a few of your membership probably voted because they were told to vote, while others saw the bigger picture and saw it was a way to help yourselves by helping Null sec. Just a pity I cannot post some of the posters here, some where really good.
Probably the best was actually after the CSM elections but funny still the same (Not even ure this one is from Goonswarm but it looks like it)
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/4/7/0/9/1/3/a_med_goonswarm.jpg


As to candidates the same thing applies although there are some that manage to get elected it is more rare now that the Null sec blocks have decided to take it seriously. They lack the sense of being part of a larger community that some people find in big alliances but even those come back to forum communities.

Because they play the game without involving themselves with the forum communities they are effectively cutting them selves off and making their circles smaller. As these smaller circles do not generally have the numbers to get the candidate into a CSM seat they don't try.

Personally I wish more would try somewhere out there are better CSM members than we have had so far. Better for the game, not necessarily better for a minority.

So just like the Bees the 80% who are not voting need education.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#984 - 2012-09-06 14:29:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


If they don't vote, they don't exist as far as "CSM" issues are concerned.

Dealing with highsec types is a lot like dealing with an woman. There were problems, SHE has problems with the problems, SHE never mentions the problems to the man (he was "just supposed to know") and was mad at him for it, despite the fact that she never said anything.

People who have a vote but don't exercise it are the ONLY ones t blame is an issue they care about doesn't get taken care of.

The people in this thread whining about it could have been spending this time rallying high sec people to vote in the next election (ie adapting to the situation in order to overcome it), but true to form they come here griping about the unfairness of it so CCP itself will change it for them. It's so typical of the carebear mind-set it's scary.

The problem is even the people who did vote and got there candidates come to these forums to ***** about things CCP has done, the biggest problem there is if it is not 100% the way some players like it even if the majority are in favour of it we still end up with massive thread naughts but then again as the CSM is only made up of the minority of EvE so CCP is still trying to do what they think the other 80% will like as well.

Lets face it where the hell did the new UI come from, I don't remember any threadnaughts about how anyone thought that was so broken it needed that much work.

Oh and as to rallying, it is too early for that, maybe January or February depending on when the voting starts next year.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#985 - 2012-09-06 14:29:32 UTC
So why don't you make like a bee and buzz off and educate them? GSF's CSM campaign took responsibility for energising their constituency, so I don't see why you shouldn't stop wasting your time posting in this ridiculously overlong thread and emulate their highly successful example.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#986 - 2012-09-06 14:38:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So why don't you make like a bee and buzz off and educate them? GSF's CSM campaign took responsibility for energising their constituency, so I don't see why you shouldn't stop wasting your time posting in this ridiculously overlong thread and emulate their highly successful example.

Part of the education comes and exists from people reading the forums a small percentage I will admit but they are still their. As to you yourself as you have padded this thread so nicely, why are you not off educating people about the CSM or starting your own campaign?

Oh and as I said it is to early for the masses.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#987 - 2012-09-06 14:40:57 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So why don't you make like a bee and buzz off and educate them? GSF's CSM campaign took responsibility for energising their constituency, so I don't see why you shouldn't stop wasting your time posting in this ridiculously overlong thread and emulate their highly successful example.

Part of the education comes and exists from people reading the forums a small percentage I will admit but they are still their. As to you yourself as you have padded this thread so nicely, why are you not off educating people about the CSM or starting your own campaign?

Oh and as I said it is to early for the masses.


Because I personally don't care about any of the issues these hypothetica masses represent. In fact based on forum activity I'd be inclined to say I'm strongly opposed to most of them. Why should I be responsible for educating and organising a group of voters who do not represent my interests?
Frying Doom
#988 - 2012-09-06 14:44:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Yeep wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So why don't you make like a bee and buzz off and educate them? GSF's CSM campaign took responsibility for energising their constituency, so I don't see why you shouldn't stop wasting your time posting in this ridiculously overlong thread and emulate their highly successful example.

Part of the education comes and exists from people reading the forums a small percentage I will admit but they are still their. As to you yourself as you have padded this thread so nicely, why are you not off educating people about the CSM or starting your own campaign?

Oh and as I said it is to early for the masses.


Because I personally don't care about any of the issues these hypothetica masses represent. In fact based on forum activity I'd be inclined to say I'm strongly opposed to most of them. Why should I be responsible for educating and organising a group of voters who do not represent my interests?

That response was not meant for you Yeep. Although it would be nice if Goonswarm decided to encourge the masses to vote it would also be against it own aims. You guys have built up a voting block of just under 3% of the subs, so it would not make much sense for you to destroy your own chances by trying to get the majority of EvE to vote.

Like I said it would be a nice gesture but it is very unlikely.

Edit: Hell it would even be nice if your news arm carried an unbiased "Why you should Vote" article but again very unlikely.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#989 - 2012-09-06 14:59:12 UTC
It might not have been meant for me but it still applies in abstract. Political parties in real life have no obligation to encourage voter participation beyond persuading people to vote for them, why should internet spaceship politicians be held to higher standards?

Why should someone living in highsec who is happy with their current representation be obliged to canvas for a strictly highsec candidate if they don't believe one is necessary.
Frying Doom
#990 - 2012-09-06 15:04:51 UTC
Yeep wrote:
It might not have been meant for me but it still applies in abstract. Political parties in real life have no obligation to encourage voter participation beyond persuading people to vote for them, why should internet spaceship politicians be held to higher standards?

Why should someone living in highsec who is happy with their current representation be obliged to canvas for a strictly highsec candidate if they don't believe one is necessary.

They aren't in either case. I said it would be a nice gesture and it would be.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#991 - 2012-09-06 15:06:57 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Edit: Hell it would even be nice if your news arm carried an unbiased "Why you should Vote" article but again very unlikely.

Write one.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Frying Doom
#992 - 2012-09-06 15:08:30 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Edit: Hell it would even be nice if your news arm carried an unbiased "Why you should Vote" article but again very unlikely.

Write one.

Come Voting time I will. Well I will write it in the mean time and submit it then anyway.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#993 - 2012-09-06 16:30:44 UTC
Hey you guys who think the CSM is some vast low/null conspiracy, guess what: Even much the PVE community disagrees with you lol.

Lulz aside, the OP and the supporters of his idea are missing one crucial element here, and it's the same element that people in real life miss when they talk about issues they feel strongly about: many, probably most people don't feel the same way you do, if they did you would have to keep trying to ram you opinion down their throats lol. That thread I linked start by Anslo is a perfect example.

Most of us (even people like me who also enjoy PVE with EVE's PVP, I consider myself an explorer 1st, shooter of ships 2nd) are pretty happy with the game and the composition of the CSM. Those of us how PVE understand the even though we like what we do, PVP in all it's forms is the main focus of the game, we (unlike some of you) understand our place in the game and are cool with it.

By all means, express yourself by trying to organize high sec people to vote, but as Anslo is finding out in the missions forum, be prepared for some disappointment lol.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#994 - 2012-09-06 17:16:42 UTC
Sorry to take so long to get back to this - missed some posts I wanted to address...

Oops

Lord Zim wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

What would be a nice counter-balance is someone who was engaged and motivated and interested in a Hi-Sec that wasn't nefed into the ground.

Isn't Keldruum doing it for you?

Or Meissa Anunthiel?

Or Issler Dainze?

Not really?
Not really, no...

Especially considering that Meissa and Issler are both alternates and all three seem to be pretty disengaged from the system...
Lord Zim wrote:
Where has a current CSM rep said he wanted "hisec nerfed into the ground"?

None that I've seen, have you?

Those are my words (and my impression of many of the threads and posts in GD, Crime & Punishment and CAOD, etc...) meaning I would rather have a rep that was interested in Eve as a whole, being a vibrant and fertile game, full of ideas and opportunities, including Hi-sec.

Missions need a complete overhaul (content, goals, rewards), mining needs a complete rework (to include some kind of interactive component to discourage botting) not just ship balancing. Industry needs re-balancing so that Hi-sec isn't the instant, no brainer choice for everything except Supers, "Placeholder" POS's need to be hackable (possibly to include size restrictions in Hi-Sec).

{People have been bitching about missions in Hi-sec since they were implemented, or so it seems, even to the point of suggesting that Lvl 3's & 4's be moved to low or low/null exclusively}.

((Why size Restrictions on POS' in Hi-Sec? My thought would be decrease hi-sec's utility *slightly* to make any bonus/buff that low-sec/null-sec get more appealing, but not a flat "go to low/null to do x, y, z" and reduce the amount of Buff to low/null industry so that it wasn't OP and need to be nerfed later)).

The War-Dec system needs to be dragged behind the barn and shot with extreme prejudice and *FIXED* so that hi-sec isn't safe, just safer. Aggression in the *PLAYERS* needs to be encouraged, but not to the point that the very new newbie can't get a foothold in the game (and *THAT* point of comfort is different for everyone - which needs to be acknowledged, but seems to be ignored by many of the people who've been bitching about hi-sec for the last 4 years I've been in game).

Criminal aggression needs to be viable in hi-sec, and not nerfed repeatedly...

I would like to see Security Status of systems (we're talking Hi-Sec here) become dynamic, with a low of .5, and a high of 1.0, but the services available in lower sec systems cost more (corp offices, services, market taxes, Hell, ALL taxes} possibly adjusting according to aggression / shipkills / podkills..


Having said all that - Hi-sec/Low-sec/Null/WH's all need to be dependent on each other (WH's not having markets is a good example of that).

Can the other reps cover some of this? Sure, but if your favorite part of the game is null (or low, or WH's) or {as many posters seem to express} there is a general disdain or contempt for hi-sec dwellers, how can you be expected to do a good job?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#995 - 2012-09-06 18:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lord Zim wrote:
It would be nice if there were any way, any way at all, to get even a modicum of a hint whenever someone's posts were edited or removed.

I mean, I could of course keep an anal record of each and every post I've ever made, and routinely go through all my posts just to see if there's any of my posts which have been edited or removed, and maybe take a hint from that. ...but that would be a stupid usage of my time.


I think the posts themselves state who it was last edited by but not really in a searchable way but if it wasdeleted theres nonotification. If you posted in a thread you do get a notiication of sorts an ISD posts though if you are in the forums in the form oa sortof transient popup.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#996 - 2012-09-06 18:42:45 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
I think the posts themselves state who it was last edited by

This is woefully insufficient.

DarthNefarius wrote:
If you posted in a thread you do get a notiication of sorts an ISD posts though if you are in the forums in the form oa sortof transient popup.

No, I do not.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#997 - 2012-09-06 18:46:21 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Edit: Hell it would even be nice if your news arm carried an unbiased "Why you should Vote" article but again very unlikely.

Write one.

Come Voting time I will. Well I will write it in the mean time and submit it then anyway.


Why wait? This stuff doesn't work with a one-off article, however punchy, if your many, many posts in this thread are to be believed.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#998 - 2012-09-06 18:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lord Zim wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
I think the posts themselves state who it was last edited by

This is woefully insufficient.

DarthNefarius wrote:
If you posted in a thread you do get a notiication of sorts an ISD posts though if you are in the forums in the form oa sortof transient popup.

No, I do not.


Its insufficient but in the large sceme of things an ISD's editing isn't something I lose sleep over.
If you don't get a transient notification in the forums on the upperright hand side that slowly dissappears which says someone has posted either you have the notification buton turned of or a browser that doesn't support it. I don't think the in game browers supports it FYI.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#999 - 2012-09-06 18:49:29 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So why don't you make like a bee and buzz off and educate them? GSF's CSM campaign took responsibility for energising their constituency, so I don't see why you shouldn't stop wasting your time posting in this ridiculously overlong thread and emulate their highly successful example.

Part of the education comes and exists from people reading the forums a small percentage I will admit but they are still their. As to you yourself as you have padded this thread so nicely, why are you not off educating people about the CSM or starting your own campaign?

Oh and as I said it is to early for the masses.


I'm not the one with a hair up my ass about some fallacious sec-based lack of representation. You're unhappy with the status quo: you change it.

Obviously I'd be happier if more EVE players cared to vote, but I'm unconvinced that more of them will. Go prove me wrong.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1000 - 2012-09-06 18:54:25 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Its insufficient but in the large sceme of things an ISN's editing isn't something I lose sleep over.

I don't lose sleep over it either, but I'm also not given any hint whatsoever whenever (or even if) any of my posts tread over some magical line, hence there's no way I can learn squat from it, or even be able to reliably contest it if I disagree.

Which means I'll keep posting as I am doing right now, unless the ISDs decide my posting is "so bad" I need a posting ban or something. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat