Ships & Modules

Comments:
- I think that saying it's nigh impossible to fit a decent laser ship is a huge stretch. There are ships which are very slightly gimped on fittings and have to make some sacrifices I'd rather not, but claiming the ships aren't decent because of it is kinda laughable. Certainly there are some ships with absolutely terrible fittings, but that's hardly a systemic problem.
- Cap issues *can* be problematic, I agree. But that's kinda the racial down side so it shouldn't be too surprising. The ships that I've had the worst time with have been the Phantasm and NOmen. But, I still like them both. :)
- It seems to me that Amarr ships generally have enough mid slots for control. It's not always true (Oracle, Armageddon, current Coercer), but obviously that's not a game breaker because those are some of the best Amarr ships.
- The issue of mobility is sometimes true and sometimes false. There are many Amarr ships that are highly mobile. There are many that aren't. I'm really looking forward to seeing what CCP does with the basic tank style imbalances. At the least, I think we can expect an end to the ASB-only small gang meta and the end of the current armor rig penalty.
- Eh, all turret weapons rely on their T2 ammo for their major bonus. I'm not sure why you feel that lasers should be different.
- Pulse lasers have great focus. Generally they focus down the enemy no matter where they are on the battlefield. They are awesome.
- Yes, some ships suck. This is true for all races - even the recently rebalanced ones. Seriously, check out the new Vigil vs the new Crucifier. LOL, Minmatar are getting so ****** by the new rebalance.

-Liang

Ed: With regards to tracking: laser tracking is generally sufficient. You have to remember that when you're comparing Barrage and Scorch you should be talking about damage application instead of tracking. The optimal of Scorch (and lasers in general) is so amazingly powerful that it tends to overwhelm the superior tracking of Barrage.

Heh, that's a fair point. I'll answer it by pointing out that my FW alt is trained into Amarr for general solo PVP. The ships I would personally focus on are the Executioner, Slicer, Sentinel, Purifier, Arbitrator, NOmen, Harbinger, Oracle, Zealot, Curse, and Guardian. That alt is pretty low SP so it's only got max Executioner, Slicer, Sentinel, Purifier, Arbitrator, NOmen, and Harbinger. It's a perfectly viable character. :)

-Liang

Ed: To be clear, I tend to value small fast cheap ships. The Harbinger (and Abso) are a bit slow for my tastes. The Executioner, Purifier, and NOmen are my go to ships for that character. Well, the Purifier would be if he couldn't also use the Manticore. Speaking of which, he can also use the Condor... watch out!

But really, I just solo roam with Liang these days. At least until my main catches back up on subcap skills.

It occurs to me that I might start roaming null sec with that alt. His SP is low enough that his clone costs are so much cheaper...

-Liang

The grass is always greener on the other side. Anyone who is restricted to a single class will always point at something another class does better and claim that their class is broken. Fortunately, Eve is not a game where you are actually restricted.

There is very little wrong with Amarr that rebalancing a few key ships wouldn't fix.

-Liang

Ed: BTW, you can always point at games with absolutely terrible balance. But that doesn't mean you should apply the same measuring stick to games with actually good balance.

Yes but I think this is acceptable for EVE. Because in EVE your race doesn't really exist, just the ships you can currently fly.

It is specialization vs utility in EVE. I can fly every T1 Battleship, Battlecruiser, Cruiser, Frigate and Destroyer with T2 weapons and good all around stats. About 90% effective across the T1 board. If I had put that all into one race I would be maxed in it. A person who enjoys that play style would be happy but I prefer variety and took the hit to be a little less effective to have more options. I have T2 Minmatar Frigates and am taking up Gallente Cruiser to V partially because I like the Thorax, partially because I want T2 Gal Cruisers. After that Minmatar Cruisers and the SP jump to command ship followed by, followed by, followed by. I have a ton of current options and each month open up a new one or a better one.

If you don't want your eggs in one basket don't put them there. A race in EVE is like a class in another game, it can do a lot but one is an Archer at heart, another a brute, another a ninja.

There is some cross over, you can brawl out or kite with a Harbinger or Nano up a Cruiser or use the races odd Drone or Missile Ship with a bit less effectiveness then a race that does that specifically but can give you an idea of where you want to go direction wise. The real depressing thing is useless ships and underpowered ships. What is depressing to cross train and get those T2 Projectiles just to find out there is one Minmatar Cruiser, one Minmatar Frigate and if you want good options you have to wait until T2 Ships provided they are not boinked. That is why the re-balance is such a great thing.

I think that system is a great design and all it needs is for the dead leaves to be pruned so new ones can grow like the new Punisher and Incursus.

That is what I want.

Abbadon, Punisher, Prophecy and Maller = Dmg + Resist.
Omen, Tormentor, Apoc and Harbinger Dmg + Range.
Armageddon, Executioner and Oracle = Damge + Tracking

Omen (6 Guns no Drones)
Maller (5 Guns 25m3 Drone Bay)

Down with the Cap Bonuses.

I think people should be more careful about suggesting tracking and optimal bonuses. Most of those ships are either fine or need only a small nudge. A revamp of that scale would make Amarr The Race To Fly, Hands Down.

-Liang

Yes you're right. That was my thoughts on one race but say for Cruiser balance in general I was thinking something along these lines:

Omen (6 Guns no Drones) Dmg + Opt. 6 High, 3 Mid, 6 Low
Maller (5 Guns 25m3 Drone Bay) Dmg + Resist 6 High, 3 Mid, 6 Low

Stabber (5 Guns 25m3 Drone Bay) Dmg + Falloff 6 High, 4 Mid, 5 Low
Rupture (6 Guns No Drones) Dmg + Otp 6 High, 4 Mid, 5 Low

Moa (6 Guns No Drones) Dmg + Otp 6 High, 5 Mid, 4 Low
Caracal (5 Launchers 25m3 Drone Bay) Dmg + Resist 6 High, 6 Mid, 3 Low

Thorax (6 Guns no Drones) Dmg + Falloff. 6 High, 3 Mid, 6 Low
Vexor (5 Guns 100m2 Drone Bay) Dmg + Drone Dmg. 5 High, 4 Mid, 5 Low

Sort of like each race having a fleet / gang Cruisers whose job is Range + Dmg with the Thorax execption being faster but higher Dmg for smaller gangs. Then each race having a less focused utility combat Cruiser with Drones, Neut Slot and such.

For the smaller gang ships, Minmatar being speed, Gallente Dmg, Amarr Armor Heavy Tank, Caldari Shield Heavy Tank.
For the Fleet Ones Amarr having Sig Tanking, Minmatar Agility, Moa Tank, Thorax in your face Dmg.

I know it isn't fully thought out but it is what I am kicking around. Seems a bit to uniformed but every race and weapon has something unique and I could see all these ships being useful. The HAC's of course being deigned to match this with 2 Dmg Bonuses, Extra Bonus and T2 Resists. Of course a big part of it would have to do with speed, fitting and capacitor redesigns to match the ships.

I know.

Medium Gun Vexor here I come!

Amarr have some issues - yes.

Minmatar have some issues - yes.

Caldari have some issues - yes.

Gallente have some issues - yes.


Ok now that is cleared up, OP how exactly are amarr underpowered???????

They have their own issue like every other bloody race has.......if you don't like their issues fly something else or L2 fly amarr properly don't try to make them a gold minnie or laser toting gallente brawler. If this is your problem well then I'm sorry nothing that will be said on this forum will help you.

Adapt to how the amarr fly and you'll be fine otherwise stop whining and go fly ****!


PS. since I picked amarr and my primary race to fly I have been flying more kitey/agile stuff than when I flew minnie almost exclusively so......