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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Frying Doom
#701 - 2012-09-04 14:35:12 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


OP believes in democracy.

I move that we vote to close this thread as the discussion is foolish, pointless and the argument is going in circles.

All in favour?

Actually the OP believes in:
DarthNefarius wrote:
The meme that CCP has a perennial “drive people out of high-sec” dilema is just a pile of bull *****. Come on that is a myth thats repeated over & over again by NULL trolls in hopes CCP starts believeing in it.

The only more moronic/tedious myth is James 315's UNABOMBEReske manifestos on how mining is the scurge of all Eve.

Also it appears from the way this thread is moving the general lack of CSM represtation of pilots in HI SEC is lacking
Discuss...

So maybe you need further EducationLol



Hi sec players don't vote, you believe voting would solve that.

So surely if the majority of people reading this thread voted to close it and shut you up you'd be ok with that right?

Or do you need to go educate the high sec players this thread is there first?

Well as a majority is a number greater than 50% and it is stated that 30% of the eve population use these forums.

So you get 53,315 likes on your post and its a deal.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#702 - 2012-09-04 14:36:24 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I find it no coincidence that when CCP increased its player education levels the number of voters increased as well. As the statistics I have quoted have nothing to do with the increase in voting between CSM 5 and CSM 6 their actions have little bearing.

CCP didn't increase player education noticeably between CSM5 and CSM6, the players in nullsec turned from not caring into actually caring because of the actions of the CSM5 having a detrimental effect on our daily lives. We did the same thing in CSM7 because we saw that the work done by the CSM6 helped stop CCP from being as pants on head ******** as they were during the CSM5 period.

And of course, the monoclegate, where the CSM also helped to mitigate the pants on head retardation of the incarna launch etc, helped turn a lot of people from "I can't be arsed" into "I'll actually vote this time". Abstain/vote buttons on login will not do this, having the CSM spam everyone with emails will not do this.

Frying Doom wrote:
Argue all that you may the conclusion that advertising the CSM to the player base worked and worked well and it will do again and hopefully in an even bigger way.

I guess we could get CCP to pull another monoclegate to further convert (not educate, convert) people from "I don't give a ****" to "I'll actually vote this time", but somehow the nonexistent problem of "low representation" will not make this a good idea.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#703 - 2012-09-04 14:37:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Well as a majority is a number greater than 50% and it is stated that 30% of the eve population use these forums.
…source?
Frying Doom
#704 - 2012-09-04 14:39:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I find it no coincidence that when CCP increased its player education levels the number of voters increased as well.
…except that CCP didn't increase their “education”. What happened was that people cared enough to vote. You keep confusing “being educated” with caring when the two are completely unrelated.

By the way, how do manage to keep justifying to yourself the absolutely nonsensical claim that having 2-3× (or 15× depending on how you count) the engagement of other games somehow counts as the engagement being “low”?

No actually they did, the splash screens and the text box were all new last year, I am not sure about the Email, I don't remember one before that but that does not mean it does not exist.

It is easy to follow CCP increased advertising and the number of voters went up.

You never did say whether those other games had player elected representatives.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#705 - 2012-09-04 14:44:43 UTC
Quote:
CCP didn't increase player education noticeably between CSM5 and CSM6, the players in nullsec turned from not caring into actually caring because of the actions of the CSM5 having a detrimental effect on our daily lives. We did the same thing in CSM7 because we saw that the work done by the CSM6 helped stop CCP from being as pants on head ******** as they were during the CSM5 period.


How dare you bring facts to this otherwise completely irrelevant discussion! Its an outrage I say.. outrage!!

No but seriously... ehm... yeah... I wasn't going to bring this up because Frying Doom is clearly uninformed but I like his spirit, I would hate to overly squash it ... but yeah.. there was no education or CCP involvement at all, the game changed, people didn't like it, they started voting.

Education would have zero impact here, its silly to think so.. the reason is simple. Everyone is already aware of the CSM, what they do and how the whole thing works... Some people care and vote, most don't ... and don't vote... People will respond if they feel the CSM is not representing as they did after CSM5 because that CSM didn't represent THE MAJORITY of players. The current one does and as such, no one gives a crap about voting cause its handled. End of Story.

Why would I vote, if every single person who ran more less represents my opinion? It doesn't matter who wins, either ways the CSM pretty much has it down pact.. I mean yeah I don't agree with every written word, but than again I don't agree with every written of everyone.. hell sometimes I disagree with my bloody self given enough time if I look back on my own posts... so .. yeah.... this is silly

So ... yeah argument is going nowhere... it started when the CSM represented the majority opinion and when the thread is locked the CSM will still represent the majority.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#706 - 2012-09-04 14:44:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
No actually they did, the splash screens and the text box were all new last year
Eh, you're going to have to prove that one I'm afraid.

Quote:
It is easy to follow CCP increased advertising and the number of voters went up.
…and this one too.

Oh, and how do manage to keep justifying to yourself the absolutely nonsensical claim that having 2-3× (or 15× depending on how you count) the engagement of other games somehow counts as the engagement being “low”?
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#707 - 2012-09-04 14:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: serras bang
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
And yet the turn out is still so low.

Except it isn't.

serras bang wrote:
i see your point here i do however hi sec still has to be able to make your isk or your force people into low and null witch gose against the whole point of free will your choices are your own. i aint saying things such as minning or something should be the same everywere nah but it dosent mean you should nerf hi sec rather give a buff to low and null.

but the point still stands that reguardless of your biliefs if your a csm person and you got there to represent the hi sec population your there to represent them as best as possible even if that means fighting tooth and nail for something you do not necesary bilieve in or at the very least cut the deal that retains the most for hi sec.

I strongly doubt anyone wants to make it so nobody can make any money at all in hisec, not even I, and I'll happily say "remove L4s from hisec". There's a reason I keep saying remove L4s: CCP have repeatedly tried to up the reward levels in f.ex nullsec to the point where people actually find it worth doing, and they nerfed it in a panic within a few months of implementing them, because the rewards had to be too high to do so. L4s end up, in their current form, of setting a dangerously high baseline for effortless rewards (of course, now FW farmville is even worse, but CCP is going to nerf that shortly I believe), which in turn means that instead of being out and about in nullsec, most nullsec people have hisec chars to make money with, which has a detrimental effect on how alive a built-up space feels, it means that people have less incentives to actually take space, and less incentives to upgrade space, and in turn it means that roaming gangs are frustrated by a near complete lack of people to actually gank. Etc, etc, etc.

A hisec only guy will never, ever be able to see this side of the coin.


tbh ide take a 10% nerf on isk on lvl 4's ide even say dont make em blitzable if theres acceleration gates you have to kill the pocket to procead or things like the anomaly you have to pickup the key everytime you do it. i have no prob with something like that takeing them to low i am against however essentialy cause that would cripple a hugh amount of players isk income.

bet your wondering of why im saying this yes dont get me wrong casual players this will suck for me that is unemployed atm i can sit most of the day back and forth between playing and i make as much as 1.4 bill in lvl 4's a week with 1 char maybe not a lot maybe to much some same but its the plain truth would i be happy to take a drop to an extent as i said 10% wouldnt criple my income ide just get 100 mill less a week but i do work for this isk. and i almost always kill everything in all mission except a few exceptions so i dunno would this kinda thing be acceptable for lvl 4's and for them to stay as is ?

i also have views on how to get people into low ect but thats not what were on the subject of atm.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#708 - 2012-09-04 14:52:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No actually they did, the splash screens and the text box were all new last year
Eh, you're going to have to prove that one I'm afraid.

Quote:
It is easy to follow CCP increased advertising and the number of voters went up.
…and this one too.

Oh, and how do manage to keep justifying to yourself the absolutely nonsensical claim that having 2-3× (or 15× depending on how you count) the engagement of other games somehow counts as the engagement being “low”?



Save your breath Tippia. The hilarious thing here is that Frying is the perfect example of what I was talking about. An educated person being wilfully ignorant, thus proving by his own existence and continued arguing on this subject, that education means nothing without the will to use it.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#709 - 2012-09-04 14:54:58 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:

This GAME is no different than any other. There are people in these forums that would like to believe they are somehow better than everyone else that pays their sub just as they do. Just like other GAMES it’s the vocal minority on the forums that’s seems to get the Devs attention. Here is a news flash for you. This is a GAME and many people take it just for what it is… a GAME… People play for many reasons most are casual or solo, it’s those people that keep this game going, it’s those people subs that keep eve going and pays salaries and allows people like yourself to come here and think your superior. Without the silent majority you wouldn’t have this game. Then where would you go to feel superior?


I don't understand how people can be so completely wrong and not even know it lol.

Yes, this is a GAME, a cold hard dark sandbox that demands you KNOW how to live in it, and that you DO something about you circumstances.

And yet the people who don't know anything about the game and don't DO anything about their circumstances STILL feel entitled to representation on a player elected board that they can't be bother to vote for..

It has nothing to do with the forums, it has everything to do with the VOTe people get from subing .The op and the others like him just don't want to understand that.

Once again, I have no problem with people doing the casual solo thing, if you want to waste your sub money playing on of the most hard core player driven MMOs in existence, , well, that's you. I choose to play and enjoy EVE as designed.

And for the record, I don't think I'm superior to you and others like you who live with this massive sense of personal entitlement, I KNOW I'm better than your type.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#710 - 2012-09-04 15:01:13 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:



Save your breath Tippia. The hilarious thing here is that Frying is the perfect example of what I was talking about. An educated person being wilfully ignorant, thus proving by his own existence and continued arguing on this subject, that education means nothing without the will to use it.


I personally don't see how Tip puts up with it. It rubs me raw that so many people could believe such easily disprovable BS so much that they dig their heels in even when you show them their logical errors (what Tip does every day). If I had real life hair i'd pull it out lol.

It is no different from real life, where some people can't separate their material interest from the actual truth. There have been times (in game and out) that I realized that while something might be good for me but bad for others, or good for my small group but bad for society ect ect. But some folks just can't do that and it's sad IMO.


Everyone who subs gets a vote for CSM, if you don't use it, don't blame ccp's "lack of voter ediucation", null sec or anyone else.

YOU didn't vote, so stfu about the CSM.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#711 - 2012-09-04 15:03:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:

This GAME is no different than any other. There are people in these forums that would like to believe they are somehow better than everyone else that pays their sub just as they do. Just like other GAMES it’s the vocal minority on the forums that’s seems to get the Devs attention. Here is a news flash for you. This is a GAME and many people take it just for what it is… a GAME… People play for many reasons most are casual or solo, it’s those people that keep this game going, it’s those people subs that keep eve going and pays salaries and allows people like yourself to come here and think your superior. Without the silent majority you wouldn’t have this game. Then where would you go to feel superior?


I don't understand how people can be so completely wrong and not even know it lol.

Yes, this is a GAME, a cold hard dark sandbox that demands you KNOW how to live in it, and that you DO something about you circumstances.

And yet the people who don't know anything about the game and don't DO anything about their circumstances STILL feel entitled to representation on a player elected board that they can't be bother to vote for..

It has nothing to do with the forums, it has everything to do with the VOTe people get from subing .The op and the others like him just don't want to understand that.

Once again, I have no problem with people doing the casual solo thing, if you want to waste your sub money playing on of the most hard core player driven MMOs in existence, , well, that's you. I choose to play and enjoy EVE as designed.

And for the record, I don't think I'm superior to you and others like you who live with this massive sense of personal entitlement, I KNOW I'm better than your type.




the game is designed so that you can carve out your own existanse all the guy was sying is his existance is in service of corperations within new edan doing the lackies work and thats what he enjoys. personaly so do i for most of it come in chill out speack to corp mates occasionaly join em for an op or blow each other up thats how i enjoy my game.
Signal11th
#712 - 2012-09-04 15:05:01 UTC
I'm actually going to stop posting in this thread as me and Zim are arguing the same points but he's doing a better job of it.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#713 - 2012-09-04 15:10:54 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:


This GAME is no different than any other. There are people in these forums that would like to believe they are somehow better than everyone else that pays their sub just as they do. Just like other GAMES it’s the vocal minority on the forums that’s seems to get the Devs attention. Here is a news flash for you. This is a GAME and many people take it just for what it is… a GAME… People play for many reasons most are casual or solo, it’s those people that keep this game going, it’s those people subs that keep eve going and pays salaries and allows people like yourself to come here and think your superior. Without the silent majority you wouldn’t have this game. Then where would you go to feel superior?



Poor choice of name aside, if you do not speak, how do you expect to be heard?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#714 - 2012-09-04 15:11:18 UTC
serras bang wrote:
tbh ide take a 10% nerf on isk on lvl 4's ide even say dont make em blitzable if theres acceleration gates you have to kill the pocket to procead or things like the anomaly you have to pickup the key everytime you do it. i have no prob with something like that takeing them to low i am against however essentialy cause that would cripple a hugh amount of players isk income.

bet your wondering of why im saying this yes dont get me wrong casual players this will suck for me that is unemployed atm i can sit most of the day back and forth between playing and i make as much as 1.4 bill in lvl 4's a week with 1 char maybe not a lot maybe to much some same but its the plain truth would i be happy to take a drop to an extent as i said 10% wouldnt criple my income ide just get 100 mill less a week but i do work for this isk. and i almost always kill everything in all mission except a few exceptions so i dunno would this kinda thing be acceptable for lvl 4's and for them to stay as is ?

I'll admit that when I say "remove L4s", it's a bit for the shock factor, CCP'll probably never, ever remove L4s from hisec. I'm going to assume that what they'll end up doing is nerfing f.ex the blitzing of them etc, maybe reduce the payouts some, and for all we know that'll be sufficient. It could also be that they'll see it necessary to add/increase various taxes in hisec, which aren't applicable in null/low (or even something which the players themselves can determine, to make the act of actually holding, developing and using space worthwhile again).

I don't have definite answers, I just know that a pure hisec representative would most likely get a heartattack at even the mention of this, because chances are he'd have told his constituents that "he will fight against hisec nerfs!" or some such nonsense, and demanding that the CSM have someone who hasn't left hisec ever is an unrealistic wish which'll just end up with a CSM rep trying to replicate CSM5.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#715 - 2012-09-04 15:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
I skipped over a lot of this thread but I get the gist that we need to do something big to get empire players involved in the process.

On an unrelated matter of concern specific to our 0.0 constituents, the CSM has had much success in our efforts to get CCP to remove the asteroid belts and agents from highsec. We're also trying to get CCP to increase the ISK/hour in 0.0 by actually giving 0.0 players some free ISK every hour but there may be some technical reasons why that can't happen.

We'll keep at it.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#716 - 2012-09-04 15:20:25 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
I'm actually going to stop posting in this thread as me and Zim are arguing the same points but he's doing a better job of it.

The argument is highly circular at this point anyway. I think by this point Frying "I love Issler" Doom has proven that he's completely insane, has absolutely no idea how democracy actually works, and wants CCP to a bunch of extra work to get apathetic people to vote in a fake election for a video game.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#717 - 2012-09-04 15:20:44 UTC
lol alek i had to read that twice before i got it lol not that i was shocked i was like wtf
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#718 - 2012-09-04 15:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rats
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
I skipped over a lot of this thread but I get the gist that we need to do something big to get empire players involved in the process.

On an unrelated matter of concern specific to our 0.0 constituents, the CSM has had much success in our efforts to get CCP to remove the asteroid belts and agents from highsec. We're also trying to get CCP to increase the ISK/hour in 0.0 by actually giving 0.0 players some free ISK every hour but there may be some technical reasons why that can't happen.

We'll keep at it.



Give null sec player free isk every hour ???? you cannot be serious, and they call hi sec entitled.

Please leave hi-sec alone until you have a viable, attractive alternative to just being entertainment for bored pvp'ers and griefers. If CCP still want a player base that is, as I doubt that the current population of low and null can pay the bills.



Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#719 - 2012-09-04 15:23:24 UTC
This thread has officially devolved in to an offshoot of Comedy Central.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#720 - 2012-09-04 15:24:16 UTC
Rats wrote:
Give null sec player free isk every hour ???? you cannot be serious, and they call hi sec entitled.

Hook, line and sinker.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat