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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Frying Doom
#641 - 2012-09-04 10:54:41 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
[quote=Frying Doom][quote=Signal11th]

Of course you are, yes you're not trying to get them to vote for a candidate but you are still trying to force/educate them to use the mechanic on which these candidates are elected.
You could spin it the other way round and take the percentage of apathetic voters as a guideline of whether or not the candidates or even the process itself is needed or in fact relevant.

Again No I am trying to force them to be active in their not caring as well as to actually get those who do not care enough about not caring to vote.

If you can show me a figure that shows the number of apathetic voters in comparison to those that believe the CSM is only for Null sec, or those who do not know what its function is I would be impressed.



Isn't that for you to do as you're the person who wants to make changes to the current system?

No that is part of the point to the changes I would like to see. As that way we will have actual figures of the number who do not care and hopefully educate some in the mean time. The only figures we have is that 16.63%. of the population voted with the largest group making up just short of 3% of the population and the lowest seat going to someone with 1/3 of 1% of the population voting for them.

Those are the facts, there are too many unknowns that this would help.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#642 - 2012-09-04 11:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Frying Doom wrote:


No that is part of the point to the changes I would like to see. As that way we will have actual figures of the number who do not care and hopefully educate some in the mean time. The only figures we have is that 16.63%. of the population voted with the largest group making up just short of 3% of the population and the lowest seat going to someone with 1/3 of 1% of the population voting for them.

Those are the facts, there are too many unknowns that this would help.



Well good luck getting the 80% who can't be bothered to vote to reply to a mail/thread asking them why they don't vote.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#643 - 2012-09-04 11:05:50 UTC
James 315 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
The only more moronic/tedious myth is James 315's UNABOMBEReske manifestos on how mining is the scurge of all Eve.

To which Manifesto are you referring, specifically?


The drivel you wrote, remember


Tal


I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Frying Doom
#644 - 2012-09-04 11:09:18 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


No that is part of the point to the changes I would like to see. As that way we will have actual figures of the number who do not care and hopefully educate some in the mean time. The only figures we have is that 16.63%. of the population voted with the largest group making up just short of 3% of the population and the lowest seat going to someone with 1/3 of 1% of the population voting for them.

Those are the facts, there are too many unknowns that this would help.



Well good luck getting the 80% who can't be bothered to vote to reply to a mail/thread asking them why they don't vote.

A survey might actually be helpful to some of those as well as a mailing by the CSM and of course in-game billboard (assuming they attach lore to the CSM) would not hurt and the Vote/abstain at elections would probably do the most good.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#645 - 2012-09-04 11:15:28 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Again No I am trying to force them to be active in their not caring as well as to actually get those who do not care enough about not caring to vote.

By making them press abstain or vote during login, which'll cost programmer time, graphics team time and QA time to implement and launch, and which'll just be bypassed as quickly as possible, most likely even by the people who later go on to vote by using the proper link to the voting page which CCP has made especially for the process.

End result: statistics which'll mean ****-all, pissed off players and wasted money.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#646 - 2012-09-04 11:21:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Again No I am trying to force them to be active in their not caring as well as to actually get those who do not care enough about not caring to vote.

By making them press abstain or vote during login, which'll cost programmer time, graphics team time and QA time to implement and launch, and which'll just be bypassed as quickly as possible, most likely even by the people who later go on to vote by using the proper link to the voting page which CCP has made especially for the process.

End result: statistics which'll mean ****-all, pissed off players and wasted money.

I think players could aford a one minute distraction in a year and the amount of time used to create it would only be about an hour or so, so hardly enough to even mention.

Where as having a player representative council influencing the game of the whole community without their input is enough to mention.

Educating them further is far less of a concern than not educating them and allowing minorities to help steer the destiny of this great game.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#647 - 2012-09-04 11:22:13 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
A survey might actually be helpful to some of those as well as a mailing by the CSM

Oh, a new mail? You mean exactly like the one CCP sends now, only sent by other people?

Productive.

Frying Doom wrote:
and of course in-game billboard (assuming they attach lore to the CSM) would not hurt

Weren't the billboards filled with CSM info as well?

Frying Doom wrote:
and the Vote/abstain at elections would probably do the most good.

The popup at login which'll just be bypassed by everyone so they can get to the game itself quicker, and deal with actually voting at a later date through eve gate or whatever the actual URL CCP has made it available at the past few years?

Productive.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#648 - 2012-09-04 11:24:30 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I think players could aford a one minute distraction in a year and the amount of time used to create it would only be about an hour or so, so hardly enough to even mention.

It still requires art to be made (again, you don't want to make punkturis make sad puppy eyes because the voting thingy is an eyesore), and it still has to be thoroughly tested. It'll take more than 1 hour.

Frying Doom wrote:
Where as having a player representative council influencing the game of the whole community without their input is enough to mention.

They've given their input. Their input is "I don't give a ****, do whatever".

Frying Doom wrote:
Educating them further is far less of a concern than not educating them and allowing minorities to help steer the destiny of this great game.

Requiring them to press abstain to get into the game isn't "educating the players", that's "pissing off the players".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#649 - 2012-09-04 11:29:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
A survey might actually be helpful to some of those as well as a mailing by the CSM

Oh, a new mail? You mean exactly like the one CCP sends now, only sent by other people?

Productive.

Frying Doom wrote:
and of course in-game billboard (assuming they attach lore to the CSM) would not hurt

Weren't the billboards filled with CSM info as well?

Frying Doom wrote:
and the Vote/abstain at elections would probably do the most good.

The popup at login which'll just be bypassed by everyone so they can get to the game itself quicker, and deal with actually voting at a later date through eve gate or whatever the actual URL CCP has made it available at the past few years?

Productive.

I have never seen a billboard with CSM stuff on it, and I used to watch them, same as the CQ now bugger all there.

With the mail, regular mails from the CSM might increase the players awareness level as well as give us a firm point of contact, much like a dedicated CSM website would do. It would be nice to be able to send the uninformed to a website with accurate information about the CSM.

as to productive, yes very. It would mean they were paying airfares for people sent their by the majority of the game rather than a minority. Is it any wonder they cut down to only 7 members going to Iceland as they are meeting with what could be called the minority council.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#650 - 2012-09-04 11:32:37 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
A survey might actually be helpful to some of those as well as a mailing by the CSM

Oh, a new mail? You mean exactly like the one CCP sends now, only sent by other people?

Productive.

Frying Doom wrote:
and of course in-game billboard (assuming they attach lore to the CSM) would not hurt

Weren't the billboards filled with CSM info as well?

Frying Doom wrote:
and the Vote/abstain at elections would probably do the most good.

The popup at login which'll just be bypassed by everyone so they can get to the game itself quicker, and deal with actually voting at a later date through eve gate or whatever the actual URL CCP has made it available at the past few years?

Productive.

I have never seen a billboard with CSM stuff on it, and I used to watch them, same as the CQ now bugger all there.

With the mail, regular mails from the CSM might increase the players awareness level as well as give us a firm point of contact, much like a dedicated CSM website would do. It would be nice to be able to send the uninformed to a website with accurate information about the CSM.

as to productive, yes very. It would mean they were paying airfares for people sent their by the majority of the game rather than a minority. Is it any wonder they cut down to only 7 members going to Iceland as they are meeting with what could be called the minority council.



Well again with the availability of things like conference calling and skype I don't really understand the need for CCP to ferry the CSM over to Iceland. Huge waste of money if you ask me especially with the amount Mittani seems to drink.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#651 - 2012-09-04 11:32:59 UTC
Quote:
Requiring them to press abstain to get into the game isn't "educating the players", that's "pissing off the players".


Worse yet, given the nature of Eve players I bet a good chunk of them would vote based on something like a portrait "Oh She's Hot I've Vote for her" or their name "WhataLotaVagina" .. yeah baby, she's got my vote....

Never underestimate the truly nut juggling nature of Eve players, they are the Youtube generation.... forcing them to do something will only bring chaos, its best to let them remain in the dark and simply leave the offer of the light on the table for those willing to reach for it.

Education .... yeah .. no .. won't work. Besides I still question the concept, I think the large majority of Eve players know what the issues are, they know about the CSM and they know they can vote, they simply don't give a rats ass about it. You can't "educate" that.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Frying Doom
#652 - 2012-09-04 11:37:09 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

Well again with the availability of things like conference calling and skype I don't really understand the need for CCP to ferry the CSM over to Iceland. Huge waste of money if you ask me especially with the amount Mittani seems to drink.

Face to face is always nice and it is symbolic.

I think they have to pay for their own booze.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#653 - 2012-09-04 11:38:42 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Quote:
Requiring them to press abstain to get into the game isn't "educating the players", that's "pissing off the players".


Worse yet, given the nature of Eve players I bet a good chunk of them would vote based on something like a portrait "Oh She's Hot I've Vote for her" or their name "WhataLotaVagina" .. yeah baby, she's got my vote....

Never underestimate the truly nut juggling nature of Eve players, they are the Youtube generation.... forcing them to do something will only bring chaos, its best to let them remain in the dark and simply leave the offer of the light on the table for those willing to reach for it.

Education .... yeah .. no .. won't work. Besides I still question the concept, I think the large majority of Eve players know what the issues are, they know about the CSM and they know they can vote, they simply don't give a rats ass about it. You can't "educate" that.

You said it, you think the large majority of players, not I know. They need better educating and we need better statistics.

Anyone can be educated.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#654 - 2012-09-04 11:39:24 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Well again with the availability of things like conference calling and skype I don't really understand the need for CCP to ferry the CSM over to Iceland. Huge waste of money if you ask me especially with the amount Mittani seems to drink.

Face to face is always nice and it is symbolic.

I think they have to pay for their own booze.



Yes but isn't is the same type of junket that our day to day politicos go on to which breeds more apathy in the voters..
It's more a perk than a requirement.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#655 - 2012-09-04 11:39:55 UTC
Quote:
Anyone can be educated.


If only that where true... no sorry, that is not even an opinion, it is simply dead wrong.

You can only educate the willing.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#656 - 2012-09-04 11:40:34 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
With the mail, regular mails from the CSM

More mail spam?

Awesome.

Frying Doom wrote:
might increase the players awareness level

Might make people demand CCP stops sending them spam mail/get CCP reported or sending spam mail.

Frying Doom wrote:
as well as give us a firm point of contact, much like a dedicated CSM website would do.

You mean like what they had up when the voting was ongoing? With a long list of candidates?

Frying Doom wrote:
It would be nice to be able to send the uninformed to a website with accurate information about the CSM.

You mean like what they had up when the voting was ongoing? With a long list of candidates?


Frying Doom wrote:
as to productive, yes very. It would mean they were paying airfares for people sent their by the majority of the game rather than a minority. Is it any wonder they cut down to only 7 members going to Iceland as they are meeting with what could be called the minority council.

As to productive: No. You'd end up with a fucktonne of people abstaining just so they can get into the game, and then the people who would be voting anyways would go to the voting link which CCP has provided through a myriad of channels.

As to paying for people sent by the majority: They already are. They're paying for the people sent by the majority of the population who gives a ****. The rest of the game has been studiously educated through a myriad of channels, and have decided to not give a ****, i.e. they're implicitly saying that whatever those who do give a **** says, is okay by them.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#657 - 2012-09-04 11:41:59 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Well again with the availability of things like conference calling and skype I don't really understand the need for CCP to ferry the CSM over to Iceland. Huge waste of money if you ask me especially with the amount Mittani seems to drink.

Face to face is always nice and it is symbolic.

I think they have to pay for their own booze.



Yes but isn't is the same type of junket that our day to day politicos go on to which breeds more apathy in the voters..
It's more a perk than a requirement.

The CSM actually did quite a bit of work at that summit as shown by the Minutes.

As to the previous years well your guess is as good as mine with their minutes cut down so much.

Say anything about the current CSM you cannot say we were not informed about the summit.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#658 - 2012-09-04 11:42:45 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Anyone can be educated.

You cannot educate the unwilling.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#659 - 2012-09-04 11:45:47 UTC
I was in high sec, i did missions, missions got boring, went to low sec, made much more isk, started to pvp, now i only pvp.

Problem is like THE WARCRAFT people like to just make isk to buy plex/make isk better.

I say problem, but really its what they like to do. So how about having a special mission once in a while with a huge reward that cant be done solo, sort of like a double reward lvl 5 mission in low sec (like once in a while hauling missions), something to temp them out and gather some friends. That sort of stuff? a dash of incursions if you will.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Frying Doom
#660 - 2012-09-04 11:49:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Anyone can be educated.

You cannot educate the unwilling.

The schools give it a damn good try.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!