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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-08-31 23:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
Everybody knows hisec players are subhuman. If I had my way you wouldn't even have a vote it's not like you use it anyways.


Said the dude with high-sec alts. (Yes, I know you)



Surely you mean my losec alt. Care to throw down what you know?
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#62 - 2012-08-31 23:09:39 UTC
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#63 - 2012-08-31 23:11:56 UTC
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

MinerBumping.com
Frying Doom
#64 - 2012-08-31 23:13:01 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.




cause you can totally override that one group thatll drop 10k plus (depending on how many alt accounts theyll make just to vote)...

That is actually a real concern.

The number of new accounts only 30 to 250 days old in the last Election made up a whopping 14.29% of the voters, now I don't know about anyone else but I didn't know anything about the CSM in my first 6 months of playing, I was to busy figuring out how the game worked.

Personally I would like to see a minimum of 3 months continuous subs to be eligible to vote regardless of the characters age. This would prevent people reactivating old alts to vote in the campaign as well as preventing new characters also from being created via the buddy system. (using the buddy system allows a character to get over the age limit of 30 days with only 1 plex)

Not to mention I think everyone in the game (eligible to vote) should have to go to a web site at the time of the elections and actively chose to abstain or to vote, as well as giving them a blurb to read about the CSM and what it is for thus giving us actual numbers on player participation and true numbers of people who don't care.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-08-31 23:15:53 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

I'd consider that the exception to the rule.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-08-31 23:20:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

I'd consider that the exception to the rule.

Which is odd considering he's such a contemptible person. I heard he eats babies.
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#67 - 2012-08-31 23:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bluestream3
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

Well you have to admit, looking in from the outside it seems a good way to say "we listen to our community" to potential subscribers (or current subscribers, of course). I'm not saying that the CSM has never done anything good, I'm just saying that I think their influence is very limited, they are unnecessary, and CCP wouldn't do better or worse without them.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#68 - 2012-08-31 23:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


Because the game isn't all nul sec. An outreach campaign to everyone else in high sec might be worthwhile just to make the CSM a little more balanced. Otherwise, the very function the CSM is supposed to focus on is never executed, as the playerbase is not represented, just the nul-bears.

As far as I'm concerned, this CSM does not represent Eve, it represents selfish interest groups.



This may have escaped you but goons are not just a null sec group. All of EVE is our playground and a healthy high sec is in our interests too.


Tell that to James 315 he disagrees

James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.


Up till Fanfest

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-08-31 23:37:41 UTC
Bluestream3 wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

Well you have to admit, looking in from the outside it seems a good way to say "we listen to our community" to potential subscribers (or current subscribers, of course). I'm not saying that the CSM has never done anything good, I'm just saying that I think their influence is very limited, they are unnecessary, and CCP wouldn't do better or worse without them.

Getting Influence is not the primary function of the CSM. CCP are widely known as one of those rare game developers that actually listens to their customers. CSM provides a direct bridge between us players and the game developers, unlike other games. Without them, where would CCP get to know what the players want, what's needed and which ones are not a good idea at all. Forums? the amount of trolling alone should make it less viable tool for information gathering. Whether CCP actually listen or not, it's their prerogative.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#70 - 2012-08-31 23:41:55 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

I'd consider that the exception to the rule.

Which is odd considering he's such a contemptible person. I heard he eats babies.

"Boosters" you mean. I think they're illegal in highsec (where all the action goes on) but out here in the wld west it's used like candy.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#71 - 2012-08-31 23:44:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
I could agree with thinking that location and representation must absolutely match 1:1 is is not necessary true so I look at the actions of CSM7 & all I have to do is look at the CSM7 minutes table of contents and notice there is a section entitled NULL SEC and no sections titled HI SEC, LO SEC nor Worm Hole space.

There's one section called nullsec. It's 5 pages long. There's one section that deals with what is pretty much a highsec-specific topic — wardecs — that is 8 pages long. Nullsec gets its own (rather brief) section because it hosts a number of unique mechanics all crammed into one, and highsec gets a (longer) section that deals with its one mechanic.

Oh, and lowsec got its own run-through as well with the FW session.


-Yes FW is pretty much only lo sec I recall there was some discussion concerning cynoing in from NULL interefereing and a discussion about cyno jammers ( which were just announced will comeout in the winter expansion today )
-There is a section that was called WARDEC's & Crimewatch, which funny enough mostly dealt with the dogpiling alley 'exploight' that was being used against a Null SEC alliance.
-Don't recall much in the NULL section about how it interacts with the other spaces though .

I do recall WH space was brought up then joking said that nothing has to be worked on there & its all fine ( hmm if its allfine maybe it does need a shakeup then Lol )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#72 - 2012-08-31 23:52:59 UTC
What happens in WH space stays in WH space, anything that players consider to be wrong with WH space is working as intended mainly because mechanics of WH space are a mystery, even to CCP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Frying Doom
#73 - 2012-08-31 23:53:40 UTC
Belshazzar Babylon wrote:
Not sure how much more of an outreach you could have. I mean it has a big banner up at logon for a while before voting closed.

I remember a small pile of text in the Status box, that said "CSM voting now open, Don't forget to vote!", or something like that.

Biggest problem I discovered last year was the number of people who don't know what the CSM is or thought it was just for Null sec residences. So telling people Voting was open was kind of pointless, they didn't know what the voting was for.


Players need educating as this thread has shown, players don't know what the CSM does or even what number CSM we are up to.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#74 - 2012-08-31 23:57:30 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

Well you have to admit, looking in from the outside it seems a good way to say "we listen to our community" to potential subscribers (or current subscribers, of course). I'm not saying that the CSM has never done anything good, I'm just saying that I think their influence is very limited, they are unnecessary, and CCP wouldn't do better or worse without them.

Getting Influence is not the primary function of the CSM. CCP are widely known as one of those rare game developers that actually listens to their customers. CSM provides a direct bridge between us players and the game developers, unlike other games. Without them, where would CCP get to know what the players want, what's needed and which ones are not a good idea at all. Forums? the amount of trolling alone should make it less viable tool for information gathering. Whether CCP actually listen or not, it's their prerogative.

Of course, you'll have to excuse my poor choice of words. Perhaps influence wasn't the word I sought, I'm sure you know what I mean, however. I still think saying that "CSM provides a direct bridge between players and developers" is a very glorified way of looking at it. We just have different opinions I guess. As said, I also don't think they do any harm, so it doesn't really bother me.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-08-31 23:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

I'd consider that the exception to the rule.

Which is odd considering he's such a contemptible person. I heard he eats babies.

"Boosters" you mean. I think they're illegal in highsec (where all the action goes on) but out here in the wld west it's used like candy.


Im constantly popping boosters in game; thats how I started down the slippery slope to crystal meth. If only Id said no...

Edit: Im still waiting on this Ginger to tell me who I really am. Maybe I should let it go.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#76 - 2012-09-01 00:11:32 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...


Would me more accurate if it discounted all the inactive players.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#77 - 2012-09-01 01:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
James 315 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
The only more moronic/tedious myth is James 315's UNABOMBEReske manifestos on how mining is the scurge of all Eve.

To which Manifesto are you referring, specifically?


There a few that would make Ted Kazenski proud that have gone multiple pages I honestly haven't finished one but then again I had trouble getting past the first page of the UNABOMBER's neo luddite manifesto either... I guess I could exclude the one on the mattani.com since it wasn't long winded enough ( you are slipping bro Blink ) even though it had a few nice portions of tin foil hattery
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2012-09-01 01:26:43 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
-Yes FW is pretty much only lo sec I recall there was some discussion concerning cynoing in from NULL interefereing and a discussion about cyno jammers ( which were just announced will comeout in the winter expansion today )
-There is a section that was called WARDEC's & Crimewatch, which funny enough mostly dealt with the dogpiling alley 'exploight' that was being used against a Null SEC alliance.
-Don't recall much in the NULL section about how it interacts with the other spaces though .

I do recall WH space was brought up then joking said that nothing has to be worked on there & its all fine ( hmm if its allfine maybe it does need a shakeup then Lol )
So low- and highsec issues are indeed being discussed by the CSM — more so than nullsec issues — and w-space got a once-over in the industry section.

…and there's nothing in those high- and lowsec-specific sections that touch on the interactions with other parts of space either.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#79 - 2012-09-01 01:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
-Yes FW is pretty much only lo sec I recall there was some discussion concerning cynoing in from NULL interefereing and a discussion about cyno jammers ( which were just announced will comeout in the winter expansion today )
-There is a section that was called WARDEC's & Crimewatch, which funny enough mostly dealt with the dogpiling alley 'exploight' that was being used against a Null SEC alliance.
-Don't recall much in the NULL section about how it interacts with the other spaces though .

I do recall WH space was brought up then joking said that nothing has to be worked on there & its all fine ( hmm if its allfine maybe it does need a shakeup then Lol )
So low- and highsec issues are indeed being discussed by the CSM — more so than nullsec issues — and w-space got a once-over in the industry section.

…and there's nothing in those high- and lowsec-specific sections that touch on the interactions with other parts of space either.


Yep not one of those sections dealt specifically with HI SEC issues pretty much how they affect those in Sacerich NULL alliances:
CSM 7 does not see HI SEC representation its all slanted to those outside HI
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2012-09-01 01:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DarthNefarius wrote:
Yep not one of those sections dealt specifically with HI SEC issues
…except for the wardec section, since wardecs are inherently a highsec issue — after all, they're spectacularly irrelevant outside it.