These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How will crimewatch changes "break" can flipping?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ginger Barbarella
#141 - 2012-08-15 18:03:40 UTC
Ned Black wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
If anything, I would think it fixes can flipping. No longer can people steal your can with potentially zero risk, even if they are picking on brand new characters.

Thank you CCP for bringing more risk/reward into the game.

Zero Risk?

Everyone in your corporation can attack them, they are the only ones who can tackle you so ECM Drones = near guaranteed escape and since they can't fire until you aggress them it means you can do so with a duel web so no kiting or dodging shots and you get to decide before the fight if it is a ship you can 100% beat or escape from.

Can fights are pretty much 100% in favor of victim.

Please tell me the zero risk was ironic.


Thats a load of crock. Can flippers are after easy kills plain and simple.


This. Miners aren't going to go after people who can-flip them, period. So yes, it's zero risk to the flipper.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#142 - 2012-08-15 18:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Vincent Athena wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
If anything, I would think it fixes can flipping. No longer can people steal your can with potentially zero risk, even if they are picking on brand new characters.

Thank you CCP for bringing more risk/reward into the game.

Zero Risk?

Everyone in your corporation can attack them, they are the only ones who can tackle you so ECM Drones or backup ECM = near guaranteed escape if they have Logi and since they can't fire until you aggress them it means you can do so with a duel web so no kiting or dodging shots and you get to decide before the fight if it is a ship you can 100% beat or escape from.

Can fights are pretty much 100% in favor of victim. Please tell me the zero risk part was ironic.


Everyone in the corp cannot attack. Several other conditions must be true first:

They got to be on-line.
They got to be close enough to get there before the timer runs out.
Its got to not be a NPC corp.

What percent of can flips are won by the victim? My guess is less that 5%. Sure 5% is bigger than zero, so its not zero risk. But its awfully close.


This guy gets it. This is the reality. Anyone who thinks the victim has all advantage and that there is much risk in can flipping is clearly a moron.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-08-15 18:05:23 UTC
Butzewutze wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U

U know. there are actually people who want to fight canflippers and prepare for them. There are many hulk against X kills on youtube.


Fail. NOS doesn't work that way anymore.

Because you failed to show me a killmail you have to record video of you losing officer fit Tengu to untanked cargo Retriever.
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#144 - 2012-08-15 18:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Butzewutze
Nerf Burger wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
If anything, I would think it fixes can flipping. No longer can people steal your can with potentially zero risk, even if they are picking on brand new characters.

Thank you CCP for bringing more risk/reward into the game.

Zero Risk?

Everyone in your corporation can attack them, they are the only ones who can tackle you so ECM Drones or backup ECM = near guaranteed escape if they have Logi and since they can't fire until you aggress them it means you can do so with a duel web so no kiting or dodging shots and you get to decide before the fight if it is a ship you can 100% beat or escape from.

Can fights are pretty much 100% in favor of victim. Please tell me the zero risk part was ironic.


Everyone in the corp cannot attack. Several other conditions must be true first:

They got to be on-line.
They got to be close enough to get there before the timer runs out.
Its got to not be a NPC corp.

What percent of can flips are won by the victim? My guess is less that 5%. Sure 5% is bigger than zero, so its not zero risk. But its awfully close.


This guy gets it. This is the reality. Anyone who thinks the victim has all advantage and that there is much risk in can flipping is clearly a moron.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5JwBz89_cQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWxa6fFRtEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgNZKt2vK9c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcuBvxS3o_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGcCO7q9WxQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U39_JqTEws
Adalynne Rohks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-08-15 18:07:01 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
This guy gets it. This is the reality. Anyone who thinks the victim has all advantage and that there is much risk in can flipping is clearly a moron.


Well... umm... no! You're a moron! Derp! My science is greater than your science!

By the way... why would you waste your time arguing with morons?

Don't you have anything better to do?
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#146 - 2012-08-15 18:12:51 UTC
Quaaid wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:

I was 14 days old. OFC at that age I know EVERYTHING about the game. Silly me for doing an action that I surely knew was going to get me killed


Do not try to justify this as my fault. The Canflipper preyed on me because of my lack of ingame knowledge. Logic says you cannot steal your own stuff. I applied that logic and took my stuff back. I lost out. I didn't cry a river of tears. I got even (eventually)



So with your logic, why is it an issue at all? You played, you lost, you learned and (maybe) got over it. Are you better off for having that experience rather than being sheltered from it?

Noobs are the Jello of the High Sec PvP Buffet. There is always room for more.



To me it was not an issue. I got on with my game. I am not a cryer. I believe EVE should be cruel and hard. STRONGLY believe that. This also goes to criminals though. They should pay for their actions. Preying on the weak is bullying pure, and simple. Bullies should never be able to have the upper hand, Everyone has the right to spank a bully. Twisted
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-08-15 18:15:18 UTC
Butzewutze wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5JwBz89_cQ


2008...

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U


2007...

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWxa6fFRtEA


2009

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgNZKt2vK9c&feature=related


2008

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcuBvxS3o_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGcCO7q9WxQ


Fake...
Adalynne Rohks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-08-15 18:19:01 UTC
Maybe when you're done beating up your straw man, we can get back to the real issue... That you're Wrong!!! lol Big smile

Just kidding.

Sort of...

But not in a mean way...

You just happen to be wrong Big smile
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#149 - 2012-08-15 18:20:14 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:



Thats what i find in 5 minutes. I'm sure there are many more. And btw. nothing has changed since then... the mechanics are the same.
Equus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-08-15 18:20:54 UTC
To all the people touting that all the miner/missioner has to do is go dock and ship up, how often does the flipper really wait for this to happen? I wager the majority, note, I didn't say all, of flippers in this situation will warp away, especially if a real combat ship comes back.

The fact is, while the miner/missioner has the ability and the right to shoot back, if they are like my industry alt, they are trained for fitting and flying industrial ships, and science and manufacturing. He really has nothing to ship up to.

So again to all you high-sec PvPer's, and for this instance I am really using that term loosely, how about this for a solution, as minor as the crime may be you did STEAL from a person, this is a crime, and should be punishable. I agree Joe Blow back at the station who never saw a thing shouldn't be able to shoot you, but how is this, everyone on grid who witnessed the event can shoot.

There is no GCC or any of that, but hired mercs, friends, and allies will have the ability to protect each other and shoot you, should they be on hand to witness the crime. Now a non-combat pilot can hire help and have friends to watch his back. Corps who specialize in industry can hire mercs to guard their mining operations, etc. etc. There is no reason that people should have to be in the same corporation to protect each other.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-08-15 18:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Adalynne Rohks wrote:
You just happen to be wrong Big smile


So, you think untanked Hulk can win against 600k EHP Damnation? Yes, I know Damnation's dps is bad, but not that bad...
Adalynne Rohks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-08-15 18:24:42 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, you think untanked Hulk can win against 600k EHP Damnation? Yes, I know Damnation's dps is bad, but not that bad...


Now you're gonna put words in my mouth? Why can't we stay on track... You gave 3 points. I showed why each of them was completely wrong. When did I ever say "Damnation"?
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#153 - 2012-08-15 18:24:46 UTC
Equus wrote:
To all the people touting that all the miner/missioner has to do is go dock and ship up, how often does the flipper really wait for this to happen? I wager the majority, note, I didn't say all, of flippers in this situation will warp away, especially if a real combat ship comes back.

The fact is, while the miner/missioner has the ability and the right to shoot back, if they are like my industry alt, they are trained for fitting and flying industrial ships, and science and manufacturing. He really has nothing to ship up to.

So again to all you high-sec PvPer's, and for this instance I am really using that term loosely, how about this for a solution, as minor as the crime may be you did STEAL from a person, this is a crime, and should be punishable. I agree Joe Blow back at the station who never saw a thing shouldn't be able to shoot you, but how is this, everyone on grid who witnessed the event can shoot.

There is no GCC or any of that, but hired mercs, friends, and allies will have the ability to protect each other and shoot you, should they be on hand to witness the crime. Now a non-combat pilot can hire help and have friends to watch his back. Corps who specialize in industry can hire mercs to guard their mining operations, etc. etc. There is no reason that people should have to be in the same corporation to protect each other.


I would be fine with "everybody on grid" but not with the "hired mercs" part because that essentially means "all".
Alara IonStorm
#154 - 2012-08-15 18:27:37 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Zero Risk?

Everyone in your corporation can attack them, they are the only ones who can tackle you so ECM Drones or backup ECM = near guaranteed escape if they have Logi and since they can't fire until you aggress them it means you can do so with a duel web so no kiting or dodging shots and you get to decide before the fight if it is a ship you can 100% beat or escape from.

Can fights are pretty much 100% in favor of victim. Please tell me the zero risk part was ironic.


Everyone in the corp cannot attack. Several other conditions must be true first:

They got to be on-line.
They got to be close enough to get there before the timer runs out.
Its got to not be a NPC corp.

What percent of can flips are won by the victim? My guess is less that 5%. Sure 5% is bigger than zero, so its not zero risk. But its awfully close.

Yet you ignore all the other advantages. Miners only lose when they engage in vessels suited for mining. 2 Webs and a flight of ECM Drones in a Cruiser is more then enough to pop any frigate or escape if they have logi. As for your points about corporations you can't always bring in corporate help but when you can it is an advantage they can not match.

If miners used the correct equipment and picked their fights that number would be 95% not 5%. But they don't just like I've seen Hulk mail after Hulk mail with empty midslots and more then enough room for Invulns.

Nerf Burger wrote:

This guy gets it. This is the reality. Anyone who thinks the victim has all advantage and that there is much risk in can flipping is clearly a moron.

Roll So angry over a video game.

Try to be more polite on the forums. Angry people like you are scaring away new players.

/sigh.
Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#155 - 2012-08-15 18:28:26 UTC
TIL ppl can flip in Damnations.
Adalynne Rohks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-08-15 18:29:28 UTC
Equus wrote:
To all the people touting that all the miner/missioner has to do is go dock and ship up, how often does the flipper really wait for this to happen? I wager the majority, note, I didn't say all, of flippers in this situation will warp away, especially if a real combat ship comes back.

The fact is, while the miner/missioner has the ability and the right to shoot back, if they are like my industry alt, they are trained for fitting and flying industrial ships, and science and manufacturing. He really has nothing to ship up to.

So again to all you high-sec PvPer's, and for this instance I am really using that term loosely, how about this for a solution, as minor as the crime may be you did STEAL from a person, this is a crime, and should be punishable. I agree Joe Blow back at the station who never saw a thing shouldn't be able to shoot you, but how is this, everyone on grid who witnessed the event can shoot.

There is no GCC or any of that, but hired mercs, friends, and allies will have the ability to protect each other and shoot you, should they be on hand to witness the crime. Now a non-combat pilot can hire help and have friends to watch his back. Corps who specialize in industry can hire mercs to guard their mining operations, etc. etc. There is no reason that people should have to be in the same corporation to protect each other.


I can agree with the spirit of this post. (Sure, there's room for abuse, but the basic idea is right, methinks)

People running missions together, or mining together, or cooperating like good little MMO players should be able to defend eachother.

Having system-wide free for all on a thief's *** is overkill.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#157 - 2012-08-15 18:33:53 UTC
Adalynne Rohks wrote:
-Can flipping very often leads to nothing. Most of the time the victim is too worried by the thought of combat, and runs off, or does nothing. Also, it's a pretty simple task to set up a bait can, have a pirate go for it, and blast him before he even realizes what happened. You could either have stealth help, or somebody ready to warp to you immediately after the aggro. of the universe.


Do you know that cloaks mess up your targeting? Even force recons have targeting delay -> pirate warps away.
If miner warps off and returns in pvp ship pirate usually warps away if he see combat ship in d-scan and switches to ship that can kill [insert ship here].

Lol, and I'm not worried about losing something if can flipper is around. I like to waste their time. I'm quite good at it.
Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#158 - 2012-08-15 18:35:41 UTC
Quote:
To all the people touting that all the miner/missioner has to do is go dock and ship up, how often does the flipper really wait for this to happen? I wager the majority, note, I didn't say all, of flippers in this situation will warp away, especially if a real combat ship comes back.

The fact is, while the miner/missioner has the ability and the right to shoot back, if they are like my industry alt, they are trained for fitting and flying industrial ships, and science and manufacturing. He really has nothing to ship up to.

So again to all you high-sec PvPer's, and for this instance I am really using that term loosely, how about this for a solution, as minor as the crime may be you did STEAL from a person, this is a crime, and should be punishable. I agree Joe Blow back at the station who never saw a thing shouldn't be able to shoot you, but how is this, everyone on grid who witnessed the event can shoot.

There is no GCC or any of that, but hired mercs, friends, and allies will have the ability to protect each other and shoot you, should they be on hand to witness the crime. Now a non-combat pilot can hire help and have friends to watch his back. Corps who specialize in industry can hire mercs to guard their mining operations, etc. etc. There is no reason that people should have to be in the same corporation to protect each other.



I don't really have a problem with what you are offering here. It's a controllable scenario, akin to High Sec antics. It also makes cloakies a threat to High Sec pvp.

I would like this much more than what is planned.
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#159 - 2012-08-15 18:36:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Butzewutze
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Adalynne Rohks wrote:
-Can flipping very often leads to nothing. Most of the time the victim is too worried by the thought of combat, and runs off, or does nothing. Also, it's a pretty simple task to set up a bait can, have a pirate go for it, and blast him before he even realizes what happened. You could either have stealth help, or somebody ready to warp to you immediately after the aggro. of the universe.


Do you know that cloaks mess up your targeting? Even force recons have targeting delay -> pirate warps away.
If miner warps off and returns in pvp ship pirate usually warps away if he see combat ship in d-scan and switches to ship that can kill [insert ship here].

Lol, and I'm not worried about losing something if can flipper is around. I like to waste their time. I'm quite good at it.


Oh, the last time i checked bombers did not have a targeting delay after decloak. Covert op frigates and blackops dont have it aswell.
Anslo
Scope Works
#160 - 2012-08-15 18:36:46 UTC
Why is this such a hot topic?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]